2022 Olympics: Men's Free Skate

[Jumping_Bean]

It really is annoying when injury is used to aggrandize a skater's win, "Wow, they are superhuman for being able to skate so well in spite of being injured"... or when it's used to justify a loss, "Oh no, they messed up/lost - so they must be injured/not fully recovered! "Plushenko had the same shtick.

That was probably the best men's SP by the rest of the field (12 skaters above 90!), but thanks to Hanyu going and scrutinizing that hole and lamenting about it, that's what people focused on. And then of course, as you pointed out, he still failed to do the 4S in the FS, so of course without any hole, it becomes about dealing with injury as a reason why he didn't do well (even though he attempted a 4A). It grants people the ability to "put an asterisk" on the event, and blame anyone/anything other than the skater themselves.

The person you were answering to wasn't referring to other people making excuses for him, however (which you seem to be so annoyed by) - They were referring to him making excuses for himself.

He inspected the hole once and talked about it one time in an interview for less than 20 seconds (If saying "I stepped into a hole, which may or may not have been caused by another skater's Toe loop or Flip and wasn't able to take-off" is"great detail" in your opinion, boy, do I have some news for you), after directly being asked about why the Salchow didn't work out. Today, he only mentioned anything about his injury once again only after being asked about it and gave a very vague answer. The information that he re-aggravated his injury in yesterday's practice session and was performing on painkillers did not come from him, but from journalists who were present. (One could even argue that he was trying to hide how injured he is by trying to hide his cooling pad when the cameras were filming him.)

Anyhow, attempting difficult jumps is not indicative of injury status, particularly not if a skater is known to compete on painkillers (Olympics 2018, Worlds 2019, Japanese Nationals 2021-22, ...). Had he landed the 4A, I have no doubt in my mind that he would have announced his retirement immediately following the Free Skate, considering the fact that he hasn't been able to skate a full season since the 2016/17 season due to exactly this same chronic injury - which has never stopped him from upping the difficulty of his programs before if he wanted to (for example 4Lz and 4Lo at the 2019 GPF). May I also remind you of Sasha Trusova, who is attempting 5 quads in the Free and a 3A in the Short despite coming off of an acute ankle injury? Or Nathan Chen himself, who attempted a 6 quad FS at Skate America (and failed) nursing a hip injury?

 

[labgoat]

I mean, he made a comment getting off the ice, and went up to the hole putting his hand in it, and described it in great detail afterwards, and also said "some other skater" maybe caused it. And while I'm sure he didn't mean to, it cause a firestorm of people questioning the Beijing ice and its quality having to be defended.

And no, he's not the one making injury excuses. But others do. The narrative consistently seems to be if he does well it's in spite of a recent injury/asthma/etc. and if he does poorly it's because he wasn't able to overcome a recent injury/asthma/etc. It's not to say those things don't affect him, but they're frequently used as failsafes and it's kind of predictable at this point.

Imagine how annoying it would be if every time any other skater fell we said "Are they injured?" / "Maybe they hit a rut?" Nathan Chen messed up all 3 jumping passes in his individual 2018 Olympic SP and there was no "reason" given, nor did he circle back to where he fell to see if he hit a rut.

The effect of gliding across a rut in the ice on a takeoff of an edge jump is not something you would miss. It is the skating equivalent of hitting a pothole when driving. In both cases you could say it would have affected the axel/axle, or in this case salchow.

 

[16Olympics]

Nathan is studying statistics and data science, not pre-med.

He's studying stats b/c it is a springboard to professional school and especially since he would have to have a boatload of lab sciences if he majored in bio or chem on a pre-med sequence of courses.He's likely in a pre med sequence of courses where you can major in anything to get the high gpa you need to go along with the pre med sequence. I believe once he graduates he could take a prep year if he needs those very time consuming lab courses and bone up for the GMAT's. Wouldn't it be cool for athletes to have Nathan Chen as their ortho or sports med doctor?

 

[moonvine]

Elite skating was time intensive even in "ancient times". Peggy Fleming spent four hours a day on the ice and three off ice training for 1968. Even though the future Dr. Albright's hardest jump was a single axel, she practiced on outdoor ice rinks from 4-6 a.m. before class and took ballet later in the day. She attended summer school so she could take a semester off for the 1956 Olympics. She skated briefly in shows after her competitive career to repay her father for her skating expenses. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/6/1/tenley-e-albright-57-when-i/

Thanks for the info. I will feel even more honored next time I sit in the Tenley Albright seat at the Skating Club of Boston!

 

[moonvine]

Imagine how annoying it would be if every time any other skater fell we said "Are they injured?" / "Maybe they hit a rut?" Nathan Chen messed up all 3 jumping passes in his individual 2018 Olympic SP and there was no "reason" given, nor did he circle back to where he fell to see if he hit a rut.

I OFTEN wonder if skaters are injured if they skate uncharacteristically badly. Sometimes they are (Kevin Aymoz, Skate America 2020) and sometimes they are not (Keegan Messing, Skate Canada 2020).

 

[moonvine]

What?! I missed it

I don't even know if there's a way to rewatch! Why was I not informed Ch 7 Australia? Damn you! *Shakes fist*

I don't know about Ch 7 Australia. I saw it at the end of Olympic Ice this am.

 

[moonvine]

Yes, but I think Nathan said he decided against medicine as a career.

Thank you for the info. I had not heard that.

 

[16Olympics]

Elite skating was time intensive even in "ancient times". Peggy Fleming spent four hours a day on the ice and three off ice training for 1968. Even though the future Dr. Albright's hardest jump was a single axel, she practiced on outdoor ice rinks from 4-6 a.m. before class and took ballet later in the day. She attended summer school so she could take a semester off for the 1956 Olympics. She skated briefly in shows after her competitive career to repay her father for her skating expenses. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2007/6/1/tenley-e-albright-57-when-i/

I remember buying a book at an elementary school book fair titled "Golden Skates". It was the story of Carol Heiss, her sister who she skated with initially and the rivalry between Carol and Tenley in the two Olympics where Carol competed. That was my intro to figure skating and when I started to take lessons at a local rink. To this day when I see Carol and Tenley at skating events, it brings back memories of the good old days of skating.

 

[Ice Mage]

First off, congratulations to all of the medalists; and despite there being some unfortunate skates, I still enjoyed the event. I'm so happy for Yuma and Shoma, they both did so well!! So proud of Shoma for being able to come back so strong this season and to be back on another Olympic podium (in both the individual and team events). And so excited to see where Yuma (and Shoma) go from here! Ecstatic for Junhwan being 5th here, so very proud of how far he's come (looking forward to seeing what's next for him as well). Also happy to see that Yuzu finished 4th (in the final flight) though I am sad that he couldn't finish on the podium, but after the sp his final placement isn't really surprising (and he was so close to landing that 4A too ). Anyway I hope now he will be able to rest and recover from all this and come back stronger (if he wishes to continue). ❤

 

[moonvine]

I remember buying a book at an elementary school book fair titled "Golden Skates". It was the story of Carol Heiss, her sister who she skated with initially and the rivalry between Carol and Tenley in the two Olympics where Carol competed. That was my intro to figure skating and when I started to take lessons at a local rink. To this day when I see Carol and Tenley at skating events, it brings back memories of the good old days of skating.

I actually just saw both in a congratulatory video to Nathan, as well as Uncle Dick, who is not looking at all well. I'm very worried.

 

[NanaPat]

Just ..have to ..say... who else became the Olympic champion ...while studying to be a doctor at Yale?

Absolutely no disrespect to Nathan, but I believe he is studying statistics and data science, not medicine. I don't know where you got the idea he is studying medicine. I am assume you mean medicine when you say "doctor". He is definitely not studying for a PhD, though he may do that some day.

 

[moonvine]

I'm watching the USA coverage of the first couple of groups and Tara and Johnny are like completely different commentators. They don't talk through the performances and are so complimentary of each skater. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.

 

[taikwan]

If Tonya Harding received a re-start for a shoelace..........

 

[taikwan]

"He loves attention" - The dude doesn't even have official social media accounts and is notorious for being elusive and rarely giving interviews outside of competitions. Sure sounds like he loves the attention, I guess Kolyada then does as well?

There are literally pictures of the hole all over social media and they were even already posted here (even within this very thread, go to the first page). And no, he didn't cause the hole (how would an edge jump create a borderline star-shaped hole?) and yes, the hole is deep enough to throw off a jump take-off (probably obvious to anyone who has skated even once in their life).

In his interview, he was very vocal about how this is probably about how much he can do at the moment, that he gave it his best effort and that he is thankful for even still being able to skate at this level. He talked about how he fears having let down his fans due to falling short of the expectations put on him but nonetheless expresses gratitude for their support. He didn't mention his injury out of his own free will, he only responded after being asked by a reporter. Do you know what he said? That he doesn't know how in-depth he should speak about it and that the only thing he is willing to share is that he received a lot of treatment and that this extensive treatment is the sole reason for him even being able to compete at all (reminder, this is a chronic injury, which he has been in treatment for since late 2017). That's it. No attempt at making "excuses". (Even though I question the sanity of anyone who either believed his injury would be fully healed by the time these Olympics came around or that flare-ups of chronic injuries cannot be a very significant reason for a worse performance.)
The reason people are speculating about him re-aggravating his injury is exactly because he was trying the 4A in practice yesterday and had a nasty fall, after which he reportedly favoured his uninjured left leg. He was also icing his ankle after the Free, even though he tried his best to hide the cooling pad whenever the camera was focused on him, as well as during the press conference.

He clearly didn't want to talk about it or use it as an excuse for producing performances below his standards. In a weird twisted way, he said that this 4A attempt was closer to being fully rotated than the ones before despite (or maybe because of?) him not being able to feel his right foot at all. (Edit: To clarify, he was performing on painkillers during the Free, as he has done at multiple competitions in the past, like at the 2018 Olympics and at 2019 Worlds) That almost seems like the polar opposite of blaming his performance on an injury. Especially because his 2nd half of the Free (where an injury is much more likely to become more painful and impactful due to exhaustion and waning adrenaline) was perfectly fine, the first 2 jumping passes were the problem.

Thank you so much. I admire this skater immensely and you have described him perfectly.

 

[invisiblespiral]

Meanwhile, my boyfriend watched (some of) the men without me!

He likes Nathan's new costume and said that Yuzu's 4a attempt really made him appreciate how difficult quads are.

But he still wants people to skate to husky noises.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I actually just saw both in a congratulatory video to Nathan, as well as Uncle Dick, who is not looking at all well. I'm very worried.

Here's the video:



I haven't see Uncle Dick in ages, I wonder how old he is now.

 

[moonvine]

Absolutely no disrespect to Nathan, but I believe he is studying statistics and data science, not medicine. I don't know where you got the idea he is studying medicine. I am assume you mean medicine when you say "doctor". He is definitely not studying for a PhD, though he may do that some day.

At one time (this article is from 2019) he was "eyeing" medical school. I just didn't keep up with his changes in plans I guess.

He's an Olympic Medalist and a College Sophomore: All About Skater Nathan Chen's Life at Yale

Figure skater Nathan Chen, a 2018 Olympic bronze medalist, is a sophomore at Yale where he balances math classes with training at the ice rink

people.com

 

[moonvine]

Here's the video:



I haven't see Uncle Dick in ages, I wonder how old he is now.

He's 92

 

[CoyoteChris]

Good segment "America strong on ABC nightly news...they interviewed Nathan when he was 10 and talked about his goals and his family.
Here he is watching Evan L. win His gold. Worth looking up on the web.

 

[Arigato]

But now it is an ankle and "injury". But if you have an injury you dont try to do multiple 4A on practises, especially when you underrotate it every single time. 4 years ago he had an injury too before olys, but everything ended well for him so it was advantage : he won with previous injury, now it is: he lost because he had injury

You wouldn't. But he did.

I watched the fall occur while practicing the 4A which is how he got injured the day before the Free Skate. I knew he was screwed because I've seen him get seriously injured several times over the years, so I know what it looks like. The footage was shown on a Japanese news show. I had the video up two days ago in the Hanyu thread, but I took it down since the link got blocked from Twitter.

The majority of people who saw it around the net at other forums were pretty much of one mind, it reminded us all of his injury he sustained at Rostelecom 2018 - the practice for the FS. He was crazy enough to get on the ice against the doctor's advice at the arena in Russia, competed, and ended up getting to the podium on crutches. That knocked him out of competing for quite some time. How anyone wouldn't know the long history of injuries at this point and his stubbornness when injured, is remarkable. But then if he wasn't stubborn he wouldn't be who he is or accomplish much of anything either. It's also why his injuries never fully heal in the right ankle and ligaments, because the injury is on top of injury, on top of injury.

Yuzu was asked by a journalist in China how his right foot was doing. He responded that had he won he would go into the injury at length. But refused to continue. And I don't blame him. I would've done exactly the same thing—say nothing. Do you understand why? The kid didn't want to tell anyone the details of the injury because he didn't want people to make cheap accusations. From the looks of things, some made cheap accusations anyway.

Imagine that.