2024 GP France: Ice Dance Thoughts?

[gsk8]

Lopareva and Brissaud bag surprise gold in Angers

2024 Grand Prix de France | Ice Dance France's Evgeniia Lopareva and Geoffrey Brissaud bagged a surprise gold in Ice Dance at 2024 Grand Prix de France in

www.goldenskate.com

Wow! I really do like this team, but feel very bad for the Italians who clearly would have won had they not had the mistake. I hope they can let that go and focus on the next event. Fabbri was very upset.

There were some good programs, and I enjoyed the Czechs!

"We did a stupid mistake, we got a time violation," noted Mrazek. "At Skate America we got a deduction because of an extended lift...

Leah Neset and Artem Markelov are quickly becoming favorites for me and I'm looking forward to seeing more of them!

What were your favorite programs? Who draws you in?

 

[elbkup]

So happy for Emily and Ian’s Bronze medal . They were awesome!

 

[ladyjane]

Leah and Artem are climbing on my list of favourites too! A shame the Czech ID was hampered by a lack of sound (it just fell away, as did Mark's commentary) so I can't really say much - I need the music to really enjoy a programme. I liked Evgeniia and Geoffrey's programme (I don't even like the music as such but their interpretastion is so very fitting) and also felt sorry for the Italians who are doing something very unique (although I liked their show programme last season too). They hardly ever make mistakes! Obviously I was happy for Emily and Ian, and admittedly Alison and Saulius were a little less inspiring to me. I liked it though that things got a bit shaken up after the RD. I am never averse to a little difference in placements.

 

[flaky]

The problem with G/F is that she is too big for him and they aren't even (he is the much better dancer - besides it's astonishing how he gets her up in the air, the likes of Evan Bates and Artem Markelov have a far easier job and in addition these pairs have "the look"). A clever coaching team would try to hide this as best as possible, beginning with costumes. Their coaching team does everything to make everyone notice it with extra clarity. The RD costumes are already an atrocity especially for her and this is even worse in the FD - for both, but more for her again. Her uncovered shoes look extra big. Moreover this FD demands a special type of synchronisation and while Marco gets his act together, she looks way too stiff even for a robot. Problably their coach will do nothing against it. I remember very well her very angry reaction (autumn 2001) after the FD (Gelsenkirchen GP) - she stormed out of the press conference as the marks were all around 5.7 and a clear indication that the FD was not well received. It was simply not OG material and the judges, having other option, happily took those.

 

[lariko]

Personally, the whole 'surprising' makes me feel sad. I had been watching L/B with baited breath for 2 seasons, and while I understand the whole mastery grinding in ID, I felt they were ready for gold. And they did everything to win it. I am sorry that another great dance couple had to make a mistake for it to happen, but that's how it goes.

On the same note, I was glad to see Mrazkova/Mrazek placing higher despite their continuing struggle with step drills. I understand very much their desire to short-circuit the order, because they are such a bright talent. Plus, I want to see more variability in dance duo comps to start moving away from the idea that dance must only showcase a hetero normative romance, and nothing but. There are plenty of strong relationships and human stories beyond that low hanging fruit.

 

[gsk8]

...I want to see more variability in dance duo comps to start moving away from the idea that dance must only showcase a hetero normative romance, and nothing but. There are plenty of strong relationships and human stories beyond that low hanging fruit.

Agree.

 

[readernick]

Charlene and Marco don't have a ton of fans on this forum (which is fine we all like different things) but I am one of their fans. So, I was so sorry to see this mistake from them. I like the fact they are trying something different but I think it takes away from the pure skating, partnering, and technical mastery that makes them brillant. Maybe, they will be able to do both the tricks and beautiful skating by the end of the season.

I like L/B a lot. Specifically, now that they have moved away from the classical. Their programs are weird and they are technically very good. (she's a much better dancer than him but whatever) Happy for them.

B/S are very good skaters. This team hasn't really grown on me yet. But, I like good skaters succeeding in ice dance so I am happy for them. Especially, since they struggled last season at World's and at SC.

I like R/A but this was messy. So, the placement was deserved.

M/M have great power but I do feel they lack a lot of finesse in their partnering at times. Not great edge control in steps at times. Lots of open skating, not that much hold. I like T/T a lot better but do appreciate the different style these two top teams bring to ice dance.

N/M are going to be stars. I don't personally respond to this team. However, I can't help but feel that she has enough charisma to rival Madison Chock and they both have strong skating skills. I see them at the top in 5/6 years.

 

[Idiote]

My two cents about Guignard/Fabbri's FD ; I feel like they need to revamp it if they want it to work.

Right now, it's not as campy and fun as the original exhibition, but also too goofy for the more serious music to be taken, well, seriously. I feel like they need to decide whether they want to go 100% serious sci-fi (but with Lopareva/Brissaud's program being such a hit, I'm not sure it's the best idea) or to go all-out on the kitsch fun campy robots vibe (maybe bring back more parts of the show version, whether in the choreo or the music/sound design). For the moment I feel that they're stuck in a cringey in-between that's doing them no favours.

I'm thrilled for Lopareva/Brissaud's gold, I think they deserved the win. Charlène, Marco and Barbara looked really upset though, I saw Charlène and Barbara when I exited the arena and they were very somber. I understand they're frustrated, but mistakes happen, and the program is decidedly very polarising to say the least. Whether they choose to stick with it, rework it or dump it, I'm excited to see how they rebound

Other than that, I enjoyed many of the programs yesterday, my favourites were Dupayage/Nabais and Lagouge/Caffa (got an autograph from them, yay !).

Now that I've seen the Mrazeks' board lift live, I think I like the idea, it's perfectly placed on the music, but it really, really lacks fluidity in the execution. Right now it's really -wait-stop-I'm stopping-grabbing the board-just a sec-hang on-lift!-olé!-down we go ; I hope as the season goes on they manage to go more smoothly into it, so it's more seamlessly integrated in the choreo. It has potential to be a cool moment ; if you're gonna touch the board at least do something different with it, I guess.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

Personally, the whole 'surprising' makes me feel sad. I had been watching L/B with baited breath for 2 seasons, and while I understand the whole mastery grinding in ID, I felt they were ready for gold. And they did everything to win it. I am sorry that another great dance couple had to make a mistake for it to happen, but that's how it goes.

On the same note, I was glad to see Mrazkova/Mrazek placing higher despite their continuing struggle with step drills. I understand very much their desire to short-circuit the order, because they are such a bright talent. Plus, I want to see more variability in dance duo comps to start moving away from the idea that dance must only showcase a hetero normative romance, and nothing but. There are plenty of strong relationships and human stories beyond that low hanging fruit.

Yes, I actually kind of like having more chaos and unpredictability in ice dance I wish that could be possible without needing a disaster to happen though, because I like many teams including both the French and Italians.

This is another reason why I find Mrazkova/Mrazek (and other younger teams) exciting. They haven't become stuck in the hierarchy yet, so there is more possibility for movement in the ranks. Regarding their levels, I don't think they are struggling more than would be expected for their background. Coming from singles to ice dance the trickiest things are clean turns and skating closely in hold. This is a lot harder to do at extreme speed. The Taschlers have similar power, but also more years of experience in dance.

Besides artistic approaches (e.g. romantic vs not) I also enjoy the diversity in technical emphasis. Zanni teams have power, flow and good extension. To name a contrasting approach, Arribert teams skate close together and have interesting choreo (definitely influenced by contemporary dance) but I feel are generally weaker in ice coverage and lines (except Demougeot/Lemercier, who weren't here). You need to be well-rounded at the top level, but I think it's possible to take different development strategies to get there.

 

[Rebecca Moose]

I would like to see Lopareva on the Worlds podium by the end of the year. Their material is fresh, avant-garde, and they have the basic skating to back it up. Much more inspiring and interesting than Chock or Fear, in my opinion.

I had second-hand embarrassment for the Italians. The free dance is an unmitigated disaster--almost like seeing your grandmother intoxicated. Four minutes of cringe.

The Lithuanians are firmly in the "so bad it's good" category for me.

 

[hellsbellsmichelle]

The problem with G/F is that she is too big for him and they aren't even (he is the much better dancer - besides it's astonishing how he gets her up in the air, the likes of Evan Bates and Artem Markelov have a far easier job and in addition these pairs have "the look"). A clever coaching team would try to hide this as best as possible, beginning with costumes. Their coaching team does everything to make everyone notice it with extra clarity. The RD costumes are already an atrocity especially for her and this is even worse in the FD - for both, but more for her again. Her uncovered shoes look extra big. Moreover this FD demands a special type of synchronisation and while Marco gets his act together, she looks way too stiff even for a robot. Problably their coach will do nothing against it. I remember very well her very angry reaction (autumn 2001) after the FD (Gelsenkirchen GP) - she stormed out of the press conference as the marks were all around 5.7 and a clear indication that the FD was not well received. It was simply not OG material and the judges, having other option, happily took those.

She's not really, she is a couple of cm's shorter than Fabri. The issue is their imbalance of bending. He bends magnificently through his knees and ankles and really gets into the ice. She doesn't. And theres an imbalance and it appears that he's too small for her, whereas, it's just a case of he gets deeper in his ankles and knees and gets into the ice far better than she can.

 

[hellsbellsmichelle]

My two cents about Guignard/Fabbri's FD ; I feel like they need to revamp it if they want it to work.

Right now, it's not as campy and fun as the original exhibition, but also too goofy for the more serious music to be taken, well, seriously. I feel like they need to decide whether they want to go 100% serious sci-fi (but with Lopareva/Brissaud's program being such a hit, I'm not sure it's the best idea) or to go all-out on the kitsch fun campy robots vibe (maybe bring back more parts of the show version, whether in the choreo or the music/sound design). For the moment I feel that they're stuck in a cringey in-between that's doing them no favours.

I'm thrilled for Lopareva/Brissaud's gold, I think they deserved the win. Charlène, Marco and Barbara looked really upset though, I saw Charlène and Barbara when I exited the arena and they were very somber. I understand they're frustrated, but mistakes happen, and the program is decidedly very polarising to say the least. Whether they choose to stick with it, rework it or dump it, I'm excited to see how they rebound

Other than that, I enjoyed many of the programs yesterday, my favourites were Dupayage/Nabais and Lagouge/Caffa (got an autograph from them, yay !).

Now that I've seen the Mrazeks' board lift live, I think I like the idea, it's perfectly placed on the music, but it really, really lacks fluidity in the execution. Right now it's really -wait-stop-I'm stopping-grabbing the board-just a sec-hang on-lift!-olé!-down we go ; I hope as the season goes on they manage to go more smoothly into it, so it's more seamlessly integrated in the choreo. It has potential to be a cool moment ; if you're gonna touch the board at least do something different with it, I guess.

All I can see in that program is bobbleheads bouncing around in my rear view mirror of my car.

 

[Lamente Ariane]

I watched the free dance last night. First of all, I absolutely love Alison Reed/Saulius Ambrulevicius and am very excited by their FD (the RD is solid too) so hoping they’ll get better levels and be more confident next time. After them I was a little less into Lopareva/Brissaud’s FD than I was last week, maybe just because last week it performed after some more traditional/ballad type programs or maybe just because it’s no longer new to me, I don’t know yet. Still, congratulations to L/B on the win.

I’m not against Guignard/Fabbri’s FD in theory, but the execution really wasn’t working for me even before Marco’s unfortunate fall. And by the end I thought, I’m not sure this program is salvageable the music is too one note, the costumes don’t read well from a distance and they just don’t seem comfortable in the choreography. I appreciate them trying to experiment with new styles but I think unfortunately this might be an experiment they have to give up on before Worlds. My favorite FD of theirs is still Atonement by a mile, though they also had one of the better La La Land programs. I’d love to see them do something like a Fred Astaire/Ginger Rogers tribute (Isn’t It A Lovely Day To Be Caught In The Rain, Let’s Call The Whole Thing Off, Dancing Cheek to Cheek, Never Gonna Dance… etc) I think they’d be a lot more comfortable in that style and it would still be different from other teams.

Edit: also shoutout to Pate/Bye, whose FD is clearly still very new but I think has the bones of something lovely. I hope to see them in form by Nationals!

 

[lariko]

Besides artistic approaches (e.g. romantic vs not) I also enjoy the diversity in technical emphasis. Zanni teams have power, flow and good extension. To name a contrasting approach, Arribert teams skate close together and have interesting choreo (definitely influenced by contemporary dance) but I feel are generally weaker in ice coverage and lines (except Demougeot/Lemercier, who weren't here). You need to be well-rounded at the top level, but I think it's possible to take different development strategies to get there.

I've just found an amazeball video on YouTube that explains all the steps in ice dance this season within each sequence and expectations to each step/sequence of steps. Like, top skaters watching high def video of their practice in slow mo and commenting on the steps an what they are doing wrong and what they are doing right, and what gives levels and stuff. I only made it through ten minutes or so, but I will get through it a few times until I memorize everything. Hopefully it stays on youtube long enough for me to get it. I will know what this stuff means.

 

[peepsquick]

I've just found an amazeball video on YouTube that explains all the steps in ice dance this season within each sequence and expectations to each step/sequence of steps. Like, top skaters watching high def video of their practice in slow mo and commenting on the steps an what they are doing wrong and what they are doing right, and what gives levels and stuff. I only made it through ten minutes or so, but I will get through it a few times until I memorize everything. Hopefully it stays on youtube long enough for me to get it. I will know what this stuff means.

Can you share the video with us? I would be interested!

 

[lariko]

Can you share the video with us? I would be interested!

Are you okay if it's not in English?

 

[flakyy]

She's not really, she is a couple of cm's shorter than Fabri. The issue is their imbalance of bending. He bends magnificently through his knees and ankles and really gets into the ice. She doesn't. And theres an imbalance and it appears that he's too small for her, whereas, it's just a case of he gets deeper in his ankles and knees and gets into the ice far better than she can.

She is 161cm, he is 165 (according to isu bio. This is virtually nothing - and the bending accentuates that even further, thanks to the additional info. C/B 157cm/187cm. My point was: if you have a disadvantage, work against it to eliminate it. And do not corroborate it. Guignard often looks taller than him and this is not good. And not good at all for that robot program.

 

[Flying Feijoa]

She is 161cm, he is 165 (according to isu bio. This is virtually nothing - and the bending accentuates that even further, thanks to the additional info. C/B 157cm/187cm. My point was: if you have a disadvantage, work against it to eliminate it. And do not corroborate it. Guignard often looks taller than him and this is not good. And not good at all for that robot program.

Hawayek and Baker are both the same height (1.7m) but as far as I know that wasn't a major issue for them. Height difference in ice dance doesn't give as much of an advantage for pairs - it helps with the lifts, but so do momentum and technique. It can also make it harder to match lines, so teams like Chock/Bates (or back in the day Coomes/Buckland, to name another 30 cm gap C/B couple ) would try to draw attention instead towards things like acrobatic lifts.

I think it's still a good strategy for similar-height teams like Guignard/Fabbri and many of the sibling teams to focus on unison. If it can be made to fit the theme, a skirt might help to camouflage Charlene's lesser kneebend. But I wouldn't overly fixate on this aspect, as it was a random trip by Marco that lost them the competition here.

 

[peepsquick]

Are you okay if it's not in English?

I am OK if it is in French or German ...

 

[curvedstraightline]

L/B - I'm not a huge fan of the RD, but their FD is very interesting and they deserved the win. I wanted CPom in the GPF but L/B deserve it.
G/F - Oh my they need new costumes. I don't hate the concept, but the costumes are tacky and highlight their difference in proportions. Her hips are taller and the jumpsuits just make it look worse.
B/S - Happy for them, but they do nothing for me. I still don't understand the smiling during their sad FD music and the RD reminds me of Sin Kats but not in a good way. They skated clean though, so I'm glad they had that redemption.
R/A - Their FD is so fun and has a lot of potential, but anyone over the age of 9 should not be in a tutu. It was distracting.
M/M - Her open mouth rivals Piper, but they are adorable so I'll let it slide
N/M - I really like them. Their RD is cute, but I feel their costumes being a little too GoT literal makes the FD seem juniorish.
L/LG - wow Canada really dropped them. I like their RD but their FD rivals Rocky for being one of the worst campy FDs imo. Marie Jade is adorable though and looks like she would give a good hug.
L/C - I really like this team. They have charisma, and I'm happy they seem to be rising.
P/B - I feel bad for them. It's clear Igor favors Z/K (which I get) but Eva seemed upset after that FD score.
D/N - how this team always manages to get away with clear twizzle errors is a mystery to me.