2025 John Nicks Pairs Challenge Senior FS

[aroundtheworld778]

Jumps were not jumping... only three +GOE triples in the whole FS (S/D, I/M, F/W?); sigh, it's early in the season. I'm also looking forward to the Kinoshita Group Cup to see how they compare.
I love Efimova's lift positions. Why do so many pairs do that weird lift with the girl in a full split and holding her leg. It's so hard to pull off in an aesthetic way.

 

[TontoK]

Jumps were not jumping... only three +GOE triples in the whole FS (S/D, I/M, F/W?); sigh, it's early in the season. I'm also looking forward to the Kinoshita Group Cup to see how they compare.
I love Efimova's lift positions. Why do so many pairs do that weird lift with the girl in a full split and holding her leg. It's so hard to pull off in an aesthetic way.

The same reason Willie Sutton robbed banks. That's where the money is.

(This is the quote the famous criminal allegedly supplied when asked why he robbed banks. The same concepts apply when asking why skaters choose ugly-but-point-grabbing positions, and why skaters choose a risky quad over a pretty triple, and etc etc)

 

[aroundtheworld778]

The same reason Willie Sutton robbed banks. That's where the money is.

(This is the quote the famous criminal allegedly supplied when asked why he robbed banks. The same concepts apply when asking why skaters choose ugly-but-point-grabbing positions, and why skaters choose a risky quad over a pretty triple, and etc etc)

Ugh. So that lift is not going away anytime soon.

 

[TontoK]

Ugh. So that lift is not going away anytime soon.

It might. Depends on if it's devalued in the bullet points. I think the camel spin heel-pop was good for a level last year, but I think it's been eliminated this year... although I'm not completely certain on that. Anyway, these things get adjusted or refined sometimes.

 

[Tutto]

Here's a take on scoring differences between SP and LP.
Sometimes, teams do confirm a ranking or even do a bit better than expected. In this mini USA Nationals, E/M placing well in the SP may have influenced the judges, that and the LP starting order, in better GOE in the LP. It does happen often. I wouldn't call it homecooking at all. I would simply call it National ranking bonus points.. and/or skating order bonus points.

I know my biases towards Deanna and Max.... but I also really like Efimova. Her DS is far superior to Deanna's, for instance. At the same time, this Love story program for me was so bland... It had no love nor story. This being said, of course, with the lighting in there, it's too soon to judge the potential success of that program. Yet, i had all the feels with Max and Deanna's Poeta program... it's a very good one. So to me, being that close to Deanna and Max is ... odd. Both teams had similar costly errors... so yeah. Intriguing

I openly admit that I am biased towards Alisa/Misha though Deanna has all my admiration she deserves. I had some misgivings about A/M’s LP. To start with I dislike tribute programs in competition format imho they belong to shows. That ‘Papa can you hear me…’ wailing of last season will stay for me forever I fear. Secondly, I don’t like the music as such and lastly I felt it would place too heavy a burden of responsibility of living up to the great champions. After seeing the program in decent quality I am totally converted and convinced it has a potential. Nothing is flashy or overdone, a story or rather a feeling being told through the beauty and delicacy of movements and lines. Some lovely details such as a little pause before Alisa takes Misha’s hand for example. There is calmness which actually says more than any dramatics would do.

 

[skylark]

I finally got to watch McBeath/Parkman and Chan/Howe's free skates. Well done to both. I love C/H's Ghost program and am glad to see it again. McB/P ended with one of my absolutely favorite pairs moves ... that tilt-a-whirl dismount from a lift!

Overall, I'm pleased with everyone (with a couple of shuddering exceptions). It's a good competition and a good showing for this early in the season, new programs,, a lot of training to get under their belts.

 

[skylark]

After seeing the program in decent quality I am totally converted and convinced it has a potential. Nothing is flashy or overdone, a story or rather a feeling being told through the beauty and delicacy of movements and lines. Some lovely details such as a little pause before Alisa takes Misha’s hand for example. There is calmness which actually says more than any matics would do.

Yes! Yes! You said that so very well, with delicacy and truth! thank you

 

[saine]

It might. Depends on if it's devalued in the bullet points. I think the camel spin heel-pop was good for a level last year, but I think it's been eliminated this year... although I'm not completely certain on that. Anyway, these things get adjusted or refined sometimes.

The difficult blade feature (camel spin heel-pop) is still there. The rules clarified this season that it must be maintained for the whole feature which makes it harder to get that level.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

IZZO / MAIERHOFER: really strong on first jump on the combo (toe or lutz?) down on the 2a. Then immediately into the solo jumps, landed really nicely. Hand down on the first throw, second throw (3toe? Lutz?) landed beautifully. Some thrilling lifts, great program

Their SBS triple lutzes were so effortless. And to do a 3F+2A series damn! Is that the first time any pair (in an international) has done both the 3Z and 3F in their SBS jumps?

I was a big fan of E/M last season and they have solid vehicles this season.

S-D/D had a fairly decent showing and the programs are Olympic worthy. The backflip in the SP was cool but even crazier that it’s a 42 year old on ice doing a trick like that in a competitive program.

Hah does one need a backflip now to be an Olympic contender?

 

[4everchan]

I openly admit that I am biased towards Alisa/Misha though Deanna has all my admiration she deserves. I had some misgivings about A/M’s LP. To start with I dislike tribute programs in competition format imho they belong to shows. That ‘Papa can you hear me…’ wailing of last season will stay for me forever I fear. Secondly, I don’t like the music as such and lastly I felt it would place too heavy a burden of responsibility of living up to the great champions. After seeing the program in decent quality I am totally converted and convinced it has a potential. Nothing is flashy or overdone, a story or rather a feeling being told through the beauty and delicacy of movements and lines. Some lovely details such as a little pause before Alisa takes Misha’s hand for example. There is calmness which actually says more than any dramatics would do.

As I said, I really like Alisa. I feel very lukewarm about Misha. To me, he is one of the least interesting male skaters at this time. I love watching most of the men pairs skaters... I never watch him... I thought it was all about being so into Alisa. I started watching him. I don't find him convincing at all.

Regarding the program, I do have some issues with it... I will wait to see it later this season of course.

But not only I do not like the comparison/tribute to GG but it's hard for me to like anything Love Story since Salé Pelletier. Watch that one again from 2006 SLC Olympics... It's amazingly well crafted. It's like being at the movies.

 

[TontoK]

The difficult blade feature (camel spin heel-pop) is still there. The rules clarified this season that it must be maintained for the whole feature which makes it harder to get that level.

Thank you for this insight. I'm always grateful for those who actually have the stamina to read and interpret the rule book.

 

[Tutto]

As I said, I really like Alisa. I feel very lukewarm about Misha. To me, he is one of the least interesting male skaters at this time. I love watching most of the men pairs skaters... I never watch him... I thought it was all about being so into Alisa. I started watching him. I don't find him convincing at all.

Regarding the program, I do have some issues with it... I will wait to see it later this season of course.

But not only I do not like the comparison/tribute to GG but it's hard for me to like anything Love Story since Salé Pelletier. Watch that one again from 2006 SLC Olympics... It's amazingly well crafted. It's like being at the movies.

You are entitled to your opinion about Misha. I respectfully disagree. He is not Sergei. He's never claimed to be as great as Sergei Grinkov. As Alisa who I love dearly is not in the same league as Katia. Yet they should be allowed to dedicate a program to their idols if they wish it doesn't mean they think themselves as great as G/G.
I too tend to watch Alisa. But when I watch Misha I like what I see. Is it a good thing to have two stars in the pair? Not sure. Alisa is The Star and Misha's job is to present her which he does very well. He is a rock. Please give me an example of another male pair skater who did not make a single mistake on a jump in the whole season. Could you think of anyone? I can't. But Misha did just that last season. He is the reason Alisa showed some improvement in her jumps (though not as big as we all wish for), I believe her problem is purely psychological ( in training she is very solid) and the fact that calm and steady Misha at her side I believe helps her to overcome it to some degree.
Regarding him not being convincing - maybe I mistake your meaning, but I find him totally convincing, in fact I believe that either he is head over heels in love with Alisa in real life or he is an Oscar worthy actor. It is not just my opinion, the chemistry these two got was commented on by far too many people.
I actually love the fact that they did not copy S/P program. I was afraid that they might do something similar. Thank God they did not.
S/P's was indeed a story following the storyline from the film.
A/M are using just one song from the soundtrack not tying it to the film at all.
On the side note, is it not fascinating that Katia is now married to David Pelletier who skated at SLC to this very music some 24 years ago?
Lastly I personally would much prefer if they picked up Tchaikovsky's R&J as a tribute to G/G but if this piece inspires them that it is all the matters in the end. They managed to sell to me (and the world) Malade which I hated in earnest!

 

[Tutto]

Yes! Yes! You said that so very well, with delicacy and truth! thank you

Thank you! If you haven't done so already, please do read their most recent interview with some really interesting thoughts on their programs, work with Katia etc:

How Team USA Figure Skaters are Preparing for the Olympic Season

Interviews with Alisa Efimova and Misha Mitrofanov, Ilia Malinin, and Jason Brown at U.S. Figure Skating's Summer Sizzler

fsskatingstan.substack.com

 

[4everchan]

You are entitled to your opinion about Misha. I respectfully disagree. He is not Sergei. He's never claimed to be as great as Sergei Grinkov. As Alisa who I love dearly is not in the same league as Katia. Yet they should be allowed to dedicate a program to their idols if they wish it doesn't mean they think themselves as great as G/G.
I too tend to watch Alisa. But when I watch Misha I like what I see. Is it a good thing to have two stars in the pair? Not sure. Alisa is The Star and Misha's job is to present her which he does very well. He is a rock. Please give me an example of another male pair skater who did not make a single mistake on a jump in the whole season. Could you think of anyone? I can't. But Misha did just that last season. He is the reason Alisa showed some improvement in her jumps (though not as big as we all wish for), I believe her problem is purely psychological ( in training she is very solid) and the fact that calm and steady Misha at her side I believe helps her to overcome it to some degree.
Regarding him not being convincing - maybe I mistake your meaning, but I find him totally convincing, in fact I believe that either he is head over heels in love with Alisa in real life or he is an Oscar worthy actor. It is not just my opinion, the chemistry these two got was commented on by far too many people.
I actually love the fact that they did not copy S/P program. I was afraid that they might do something similar. Thank God they did not.
S/P's was indeed a story following the storyline from the film.
A/M are using just one song from the soundtrack not tying it to the film at all.
On the side note, is it not fascinating that Katia is now married to David Pelletier who skated at SLC to this very music some 24 years ago?
Lastly I personally would much prefer if they picked up Tchaikovsky's R&J as a tribute to G/G but if this piece inspires them that it is all the matters in the end. They managed to sell to me (and the world) Malade which I hated in earnest!

Thank you for your post. I appreciate when we can have respectful disagreements as fans. It means a lot to me. We both have different perceptions and opinions and that's fine I completely agree that Misha is solid as a rock. My opinions evolve with time, and I may even grow to like him more and more, same with the programme which I don't like for the moment.

 

[aroundtheworld778]

I believe her problem is purely psychological

I remember reading an article from Russia where it was said she lands the jumps in practice but has difficulty delivering them in competition. She has also said that her training is solid and that she knows "how" to jump.
Interestingly, she used to be paired with Korovin who is an incredibly reliable jumper. In the three years he's been paired with Gamez I've only seen him make a jump mistake once. I've seen most of his performances with Efimova and saw him wobble once on a double axel.
Alisa was not able to land a triple this time in John Nicks but I hope she polishes off the rust and can continue with the dream of medaling at Worlds, which I think they would be very capable of doing if some of the top pairs retire after the Olympics. And if the Russian pairs haven't returned by then...

 

[Tutto]

I remember reading an article from Russia where it was said she lands the jumps in practice but has difficulty delivering them in competition. She has also said that her training is solid and that she knows "how" to jump.
Interestingly, she used to be paired with Korovin who is an incredibly reliable jumper. In the three years he's been paired with Gamez I've only seen him make a jump mistake once. I've seen most of his performances with Efimova and saw him wobble once on a double axel.
Alisa was not able to land a triple this time in John Nicks but I hope she polishes off the rust and can continue with the dream of medaling at Worlds, which I think they would be very capable of doing if some of the top pairs retire after the Olympics. And if the Russian pairs haven't returned by then...

Yes, she was very tentative, even her throw landings were not of usual quality, I am worried tbh. I wonder if the smaller rink affected her?
Also she had boots issues earlier in the summer, + they had to start from scratch with a new SP that might have taken some training time from jumps. I too hope things will improve at Nebelhorn. Fingers crossed.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

That’s not a great sign for their future as a team. Don’t want to be too negative, but let’s see if they even make it to the next event. I was pretty surprised when heard they moved up to seniors. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

What do you mean? Sure, Flores/ Wang could have remained in juniors another season. They are not the first talented pairs team with advanced elements to move on to seniors after success in juniors, despite still being age-eligible for juniors.

Absolutely, this was not a good event for F/W. They are obviously capable of performing much better. The uncharacteristic mistakes in both programs make me wonder if there's injury involved, or else some off-ice emotional factors, or possibly variant growth issues re trouble with the lifts. I am not going to rush to sit in judgement. I wish Liv & Luke all the best.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I always thought it was a placeholder, and that nothing would really be decided until after this competition. They just had to put someone, and as a first choice, you put the only team that had competed a full competition at that point in time.

As we know, U.S. fed was fully instrumental in putting Audrey & Balazs together. They still need time to improve as a team, and they have shown good progress but the expectations are so overly high. It's a common but wrong expectation that new pairs teams should show tremendous success after 6 to 16 months together as a team, especially when the female partner is adjusting to pairs after a singles career. Knierim/ Frazier partnering and having what seemed like immediate success set a high, unrealistic bar, that some people in figure skating seem to think can be easily replicated. Both Alexa and Brandon were highly skilled pairs athletes with a wealth of experience with other partners. Plus, they matched so exceedingly well with each other athletically, motivationally, and synergistically.

It will be interesting to see which team will be selected for Beijing, if the announcement hasn't already been made. Chan/Howe are mature, talented, and experienced. But their weakness on sbs jumps and sometimes on throws would seem to take them out of consideration. I think they are capable of landing sbs jumps a bit better, but it is a definite weakness which they did nothing to overcome at this event.

McBeath/ Parkman are clearly much stronger on the sbs jumps and throws, despite Parkman's fall on a jump in the fp. M/B also have one of the best triple twists in pairs right now, and they looked well-matched aesthetically and athletically in both of their programs. Parkman is not a U.S. citizen, but they are reigning U.S. silver medalists and the top-rated team in this comp of those in consideration for the Beijing spot.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I think Gabbie is probably Spencer's friend.

From posts I have seen on Gabbie's Instagram, and Spencer's, they have/had been a couple off-the-ice for quite a few years. I wondered if they are still together intimately due to Gabbie training and living in Europe. Perhaps they are still together long-distance, or just remain very good friends.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yes, she was very tentative, even her throw landings were not of usual quality, I am worried tbh. I wonder if the smaller rink affected her?
Also she had boots issues earlier in the summer, + they had to start from scratch with a new SP that might have taken some training time from jumps. I too hope things will improve at Nebelhorn. Fingers crossed.

Alisa has always had issues with sbs jumps. She has clearly been working on improving that weakness, and she had a bit of success conquering the flaw last season. It seems to stem in part to a lack of confidence. Sound technique and confidence have to work hand-in-hand, which seems difficult for many pairs ladies, even a few with Russian training. When Alisa was partnered with Korovin, they were a young team, still developing and low on the Russian pairs totem pole, which likely factored into them splitting and moving on to find partners repping other countries.