3 turns and twizzles?

[Joesitz (RIP)]

A series of twizzles go in a straighter line down the ice than a series of 3-turns. 3-turns are more deliberate as far as edges & you rise to a higher point on your blade to do them (front of the blade for fwd, back of the blade for bkwd). Twizzles are turned closer to the center of the blade, w/ only a slight pressure forward or back as you rotate, and more on the flat rather than an edge (thus the straighter line). The tracings left on the ice will look a series of 3-turns, but running straight & very close together (mine are about 6-12 inches apart).

You can twizzle off any edge, forward or backward, just like you can do 3-turns off any edge, fwd or backward. For me, starting the twizzle on a fwd outside edge is harder than an inside edge.

I believe you are saying that if a skater goes down the centre of the ice and does a series of 3turns on one foot and extremely quickly, the skater is twizzling Am I correct. There is no quick bracket, or quick counter, nor quick rocker and absolutely no little loop, and no use of the toe rakes. Am I correct?

Joe

 

[sk8er1964]

I think we all know this, in fact, I mentioined just that in the thread above. To get back on the point of twizzles, how complicated are they? Can you say they are one foot turns of 360 degrees? If so then they are little loops or toe rake turns. Am I correct? If not please describe exactly one twizzle turn with all its complications for this dummy, me.

Joe

I don't know what the tracings look like on the ice (I've never bothered to look) but there are no toe picks involved (no toe rakes, if I am understanding you correctly). They are done on the rocker portion of the blade, similar to a spin, instead of rocking back and forth on the blade like you would on a three-turn.

Edited to add: personally, I don't find them hard to do at all. Heck, I'm really good at travelling my spins anyway!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks Skater1964 - I'm beginning to get the picture. It does seem to be an incomplete travelling spin which I believe would be little incomplete loops.

Joe

 

[backspin]

There are no loops. The tracings leave little points, which look like 3-turn points. No toe picks.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There are no loops. The tracings leave little points, which look like 3-turn points. No toe picks.

Ahhh, The plot is thickening Is it like connecting the dots in a children's puzzle? What exactly does the skater do to make these points? It must be some kind of element that is not a 3turn, bracket, loop, rocker or counter and no use of two feet or toe rakes.

I know what it is not. My job is to look carefully during dance and see what it is.

Joe

 

[icenut84]

Ahhh, The plot is thickening Is it like connecting the dots in a children's puzzle? What exactly does the skater do to make these points? It must be some kind of element that is not a 3turn, bracket, loop, rocker or counter and no use of two feet or toe rakes.

I know what it is not. My job is to look carefully during dance and see what it is.

Joe

Very basically - twizzles are similar to 3 turns (in that you turn in the same direction/edge change as a 3 turn), but are executed much faster. In a three turn, there is a distinct (and usually held) edge before and after each 180 degree turn. There is also more movement on the blade. In a twizzle, there is less movement on the blade, and much shorter edges between each 180 degree turn (i.e. only a few inches). The turns should be continuous and flowing. No loops involved, no toe picks used.

And as far as I know, twizzles using the FO-BI edge are harder than the more common twizzles using the FI-BO edge.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Thanks Icenut - They are a series of very quick three turns which is what I thought all along.

Joe

 

[sk8rpatty]

Thanks Icenut - They are a series of very quick three turns which is what I thought all along.

Joe

Whew....I was beginning to think I might be doing them wrong!

Yes, FI-BO are easier than FO-BI.

 

[Blue Bead]

First, thanks to Joe for bringing up this topic. I've been following along with all the descriptions and explanations, and have learned a lot. What I need to understand is why the dynamics of the FO-BI edge is harder than the FI-BO edge?

 

[backspin]

Thanks Icenut - They are a series of very quick three turns which is what I thought all along.

Joe

Close enough.

The FO to BI is harder mainly because of the BI turn--also harder as a 3-turn. It's harder to keep your body balanced over the momentum of the turn because of the slight lean to the outside--tends to throw your body off balance as you come out of the first turn into the BI turn, & you don't have any time to correct it if it's wrong.

Not sure if that's clear, but that's how it feels when I do them. I often put my other foot down to catch myself on the 2nd turn. Bad!

 

[Blue Bead]

Thanks for your reply, backspin.

If I'm understanding you correctly, it's a problem related to centrifugal force? Since I believe that would be the natural tendency for any kind of turn.

Then what does a skater do to correct the problem? Is it one adjustment of the body or a combination on things, and if so what?

 

[BravesSkateFan]

Wow, I didn't know my seeminly simple little question would turn into a 2+ page answer. LOL

So just to clairfy, twizzles are basically fast 3-turns???

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Close enough.The FO to BI is harder mainly because of the BI turn--also harder as a 3-turn. It's harder to keep your body balanced over the momentum of the turn because of the slight lean to the outside--tends to throw your body off balance as you come out of the first turn into the BI turn, & you don't have any time to correct it if it's wrong. Not sure if that's clear, but that's how it feels when I do them. I often put my other foot down to catch myself on the 2nd turn. Bad!

Thanks, Backspin. The difficulty of twizzles was not my question. I just wanted to know what the blade is doing on the ice (easy or not). However, your pointing out it's difficulty is much appreciated.

Joe

 

[backspin]

Blue Bead asked about the difficulty, which is why I went into it.

And, BlueBead, in answer to your follow up question, it seems to be a weight placement and lean issue. Twizzles are actually done with almost no lean, while 3-turns have more because of the stronger edge. So the habit is to lean into that starting turn, and to correct it you have to actually try to stand up very straight. Eliminating the lean means you are more securely weighted and centered over your skating foot.

It's very hard to explain it in words! I keep wanting to spin around on the kitchen floor for you & say, "here--see what I mean?"

 

[Blue Bead]

You've done a fine job of explaining, backspin. I'm understanding things which weren't apparent to me before. BTW, I wish you could spin on the floor and show me too, LOL. That would really cement the concept in my mind, LOL.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

figure skating is different from hockey, speed skating, barrel jumping, etc., because it traces marks on the ice with a number of little moves. It was difficult for me to understand exactly what the dancers were doing with their feet. I saw 3 turns, and in some instances I saw brackets, and loops and it all moved very quickly. I am happy with just the 3 turns being the actual tracings on the ice.

Your addition of the straight posture is well taken. I remember school figures where the posture was judged as well as the tracings, although there were never more than two repeats in any figure.

Joe