https://www.isu.org/inside-single-p...ications-fs/17142-isu-communication-2168/file
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Alina Zagitova
- Thread starter The Finn
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
I think the rule was introduced so that the whole Eteri team would suffer honestly. Although little do they know that Eteri saw this coming and plays strategically.
The Masa-tano and Masaru-ippon made me laugh so much
The Masa-tano and Masaru-ippon made me laugh so much
What do U mean "would suffer honestly"?? Eteri team wins ALL competes VERY honestly & Very harder with backloading. Such speaches like urs - is Weakness in its pure form!
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2013
"Honestly, I think the rule was introduced so that the whole Eteri team would suffer".
I like this one. Two lutz combos look badass. She could switch the two combos depending on how the lutz turns out, although with less room for error.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
I always thought a triple jump couldn't be repeated except if one was solo and the other in combination.
But in watching programs the last few years I noticed that someone repeated 2A-3T in their program.
And this season someone repeated 3Lz-3T combo in their program.
So apparently a skater cannot do, say, two solo 3T's, but the same combo can be repeated.
But in any case I guess the same jump cannot be done more than 2 times.
So the ISU's big concern with "balanced" programs rings false - since repeating the SAME EXACT combo does not seem very balanced for me.
And balanced was never meant to please some cranky fan's idea of what it "balanced" is.
Skaters' programs should have a variety of all elements - thus the "Zayak Rule" on repeated jumps - or else you would see some programs with all triple toes.
I propose a couple of more rules for "balance" - and I list these because of Alina....
If you do more than one combo in a program - only one can have a triple toe - the other needs to be something like say - the 3lz-3lo.
If you TRULY want balanced skaters - then they should also be able to add loops and not just toes for their combos.
Also - since if a skater with a 3A can do that PLUS 7 other triples --- then someone capable of 3lz-3lo-3lo should be able to do 8 triples also.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
Just to rant about the "backloading" thread on the dark side of this forum....
Like the age proposal before it, it amazes me how posters will convolute things under false pretenses.
A veritable "tower of babel".... "age 18 - we want women!!!!" "age should be 17 - 18 is too old" "NO - it should be 16!!!!'
Now its "I agree with the backloading rule - but it should be 2,4 not 1,3"
Yeah - I'm sure its all about the "purity" of the sport and your delicate eyes not being assaulted by all those backloaded programs.
Never admitting to the fact that 2,4 would be exactly what their "favorite" needs - so thats why 1,3 is bad, but 2,4 is good!!!!
Well lah-dee-dah the ISU says it is "1,3" so next time be careful what you wish for!!!!
Like the age proposal before it, it amazes me how posters will convolute things under false pretenses.
A veritable "tower of babel".... "age 18 - we want women!!!!" "age should be 17 - 18 is too old" "NO - it should be 16!!!!'
Now its "I agree with the backloading rule - but it should be 2,4 not 1,3"
Yeah - I'm sure its all about the "purity" of the sport and your delicate eyes not being assaulted by all those backloaded programs.
Never admitting to the fact that 2,4 would be exactly what their "favorite" needs - so thats why 1,3 is bad, but 2,4 is good!!!!
Well lah-dee-dah the ISU says it is "1,3" so next time be careful what you wish for!!!!
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2018
Oh, thanks for explaining. I just saw somebody say that the same 3-3 convos were allowed to be repeated now but maybe I read it wrong or something lol Idk
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Da! Its about bringing Alina and Eteris girls down to earth. If Kwan iwas great at 16 and Lipinksi world champion at 14 like they were in todays figure skating world nothing would have changed. Sad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzAk6M0YcoI&feature=youtu.be - The main ladies' rivalry of the season.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2014
Nice.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2018
So, nothing better to do (aside from bashing ISU for allowing this messy change, and even embracing it). Looking at values for Alina's FS.
Her current layout for Dom Quixote is (in order of execution): ChSq1+FCSp4+StSq4+(3Lz+3Lo)+(2A+3T)+(3F+2T+2Lo)+LSp4+3Lz+3S+3F+2A+CCoSp4, new BV for all this with 10% bonus on all 7 jumping passes would be is 66.24, rearranging it to new rule with 10% bonus added just on the 3 combos new BV would be 64.36. Less 1.88 points in BV just from loosing 10% on all jumping passes.
Old Base Value for Dom Quixote with 10% bonus on all 7 jumping passes was 66.01. She would now get less 1.65 from same program under new BV and with 10% only on 3 combo passes.
Considering BV just for the 7 jumping passes: Dom Quixote jump layout with new BV + 10% on all jumps = 49.94, new BV with 10% only on the 3 combos would be 48.06 (1.88 less)
With this in mind, not considering GOE at all, in the new season she could do:
- ChSq1+3F+StSq4+3S+2A+3Lz+FCSp4+(3Lz+3Lo)+(2A+3T)+(3F+2T+2Lo)+LSp4+CCoSp4 = new BV +10% on 3 combo passes only = 64.36 (48.06 of this is jumps) - 1.65 less than before
or she could add 3F+triple combo to her layout in place of 3F+2T+2Lo (3F is her individual jump with highest GOE btw, she never "comboed" it with another 3 in all her layouts), making this baby possible:
- ChSq1+3F+StSq4+3S+2A+3Lz+FCSp4+(3Lz+3Lo)+(2A+3T)+(3F+3T)+LSp4+CCoSp4 = new BV +10% on 3 combo passes only = 65.68 (49.38 of this is jumps) - 0.33 less than before
or, like caballe suggested, even add 3F+3T+2Lo, making it:
- ChSq1+3F+StSq4+3S+2A+3Lz+FCSp4+(3Lz+3Lo)+(2A+3T)+(3F+3T+2Lo)+LSp4+CCoSp4 = new BV +10% on 3 combo passes only = 67.55 (57.45 of this is jumps) - 1.54 more
3F+3T is one of Zhenya's combo triples (the one jump pass she does out of bonus land), it was never Alina's triple-triple combo, probably a deliberate move since she did in its place 3Lz+3Lo (harder), maybe adding both to the same program could be super hard to perform, I have no idea. Fact is, she comboed it with 2 doubles. Edited to add: scratch that, she actually did combo 3F with another triple, in this case 3F+3Lo, in her short program at the 2017 French Grand Prix (she got a negative GOE and a downgrade on that whole combo).
Curiously, 3F was the only jump that gained BV under the new rules, so making a combo out of it would be smart (maybe smarter than repeating her current 3Lz combo twice).
If she can pull this off and place it in bonus land, she stands to gain a lot in BV. On the other hand, these two new layouts with 3F+jump leave her no room to place her 3Lz+3Lo combo if the wheels come off the bus.
Sorry for all this crazy math but, like I said, need to keep a busy mind, Excel in hand, and the need to divert from thinking about ISU Congress can be quite inspiring.
- Joined
- May 16, 2018
Same. Been on my calculator all day cause I've got nothing else on my plate lol.
I think you forgot about the Zayak rule, tho.
If she repeats both 3f and 3t, then the first lutz will have to be a double, or something not done in the rest of the routine.
All in all, the difference really doesn't seem much in my eyes. So I think she'll keep the combinations she has.
But will she put all the combinations at the back of the program? That is the question since it will be quite difficult to create a program that can accommodate such a layout. They could get it done if they wanted to though.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2018
You are so right, Zayak rule, that’s probably why they didn’t do it in the first place, current DQ she uses her two repeats of 3 jumps for 3Lz and 3F (she can’t do another 3Lo or 3T repeat, she would loose one Lz.
An empty house, short work break and a bottle of vodka are not a great 3-3 combo [emoji23]
Under DQ she did do her 3 triple jump combos one right after the other (in the middle of bonus land, not as the three last jumps). It would need to be something edited to the best of a war drum (like the medley they did for DQ) to allow “timed to the music” triple combo fest. I guess Carmen is off the table for her [emoji23] (who will be this year’s Carmen or will it be the first time in recent memory without one).
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
Was that bottle of vodka front-loaded or did you "balance" the drinking
"These numbers are making me thirsty!!!!"
My prediction is that one of the men will use Carmen this year.
I'm loving that 30+ years from now on a random figure skating board somewhere people will be referencing the "Zagitova Rule" and whether it is worth the risk to put the quadruple axel in the second half of the program.
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2005
Eteri probably has a degree in Advanced Mathematics and Astrophyics.
I remember Johnny and Tara saying that Megan Duhamel used to be good at adding the points up as she and Eric Radford were performing.
They may have retired because the math is getting way too hard now!
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2017
Sorry that you misunderstood me. I wrote the sentence with the intention of saying "Honestly, I think the rule was introduced so that the Eteri team would suffer". So I didn't mean it like "they cheat". I think the rule is ridiculous.
To Scott512 who said something about young girls winning: if they can, why not? I truly believe that the ISU should rework the system so that it gives everyone a fair chance, especially in PCS, regardless of age. This whole thing about maturity, are we really sure that ALL seniors are better than ALL juniors, or is it just because of the biased scoring that's been present for years?
PS. Sorry, I don't know how to do multiple quotes in the app.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2017
Just so you understand what these "changes" look like: it's the same as if Phelps was allowed to swim using only one hand to make more "fair" competition, or if Cristiano Ronaldo wasn't allowed to score more than twice per game(third one wouldn't count), or if let's say Ovechkin wasn't allowed to hit the puck harder than 80mph so that goalies have a chance to save. This is so pathetic i can't... This is probably the only kind of "sport" which tries hard to discourage everyone from watching and skaters from progressing 
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2017
There have been videos, (i don't remember which one), where Danihl was praising Alexandra that she is very good at counting. They all learn to count quite well because of spins, turns , num of turns in twizzles etc. needs to be done as the program was planned. After some point it become a routine and done automatically your body remembers the moves. But if something unexpected happens during the program you have to readjust and count again.
As for Alina, here she has some counting problems
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