All-women pairs, why not?

[clonesheep]

It occured to me that in most major sports (that are featured in the Olympics) when there's a doubles or pairs event it's almost always the competition among same-sex pairs. Examples: Beach volleyball; Diving; Tennis; Table tennis; Badminton; Rowing; Bobsled; Synchronized swimming, and so on. I understand that there's a point of keeping mixed gender pairs in figure skating, since the asymmetry between men and women allow such spectacular moves as lifts and throws. On the other hands, it's conceivable that, at least, an all-women team could do better (in terms of presentation) in side-by-side jumps and spins, synchronized foot works and spirals, since for these moves the symmetry between the partners is more important. I can imagine interesting choreography in these latter departments that would be more suitable for two women.

So, I say why not add a new discipline of "ladies' pairs" to figure skating? The benefits are many. First, being a major Olympic sport, FS has only 4 events with 4 gold medals, compared with (say) over 10 events for biathron. The scarecity of medal opportunities (at Worlds and Grand Prix events, too) make skaters' life more difficulty, discouraging people to join in. Right now, only about top 5 in singles can make an impact. With the addition of ladies' pairs, those from top 5 to top 20 (who can't do triple-triples but are otherwise artistically sound) can pair up and compete. This is just like tennis. The addition of doubles events make professional players' life easier and more fun. Secondly, with the new discipline it could also prolong the careers of those top and highly popular skaters. For example, at the point when Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen are no longer able to compete for singles, they can still compete in doubles. Fans are the winners and everybody is a winner. It also adds the intrigue as to who would pair with who, just like in tennis and other sports.

It should be noted that, without lifts and throws, women skaters would not need to learn new tricks to do ladies pairs. This is just like tennis. Any singles player can immediately pair up with another singles player to do doubles. The emphasis will be more on the artistic side; the coordination between the partners and the choreography.

Lastly, note as well that a pair does not have to be "romantic" in nature. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) Among the mixed gender pairs and dancers there have been brother and sisters. I would imagine a pairs performance by Mao and Mai Asada would be nice. Among US skaters, I can think of a revival of many skaters' careers with the new pairs category. How about Katie Orscher and Naomi Nari Nam? Angela Nikodinov and Alissa Czisny? The possibilities are endless.

Isn't this a great idea?

 

[Tonichelle]

it probably has to do with height issues... there just aren't going to be that many tall and short skaters that would be willing... in ladies OR men (hey if we're going to do women's pairs let's do men's too... or is that too Will Ferrel?)

I personally don't want to have to follow more than 4 disiplines... lol too much anxiety as it is!

 

[heyang]

Why only the women? COI has a all-male pairs team. they have the strength for adagio moves. Also, the Will Ferrell movie Blades of Glory is based upon the concept of a male pairs team.

 

[Blue Bead]

Would a woman have the physical strength to lift another woman, even a light-weight one, or to lift and throw her partner? I'm not sure a woman's musculature could handle that--unless she also trained as a female weight lifter, LOL. On the other hand, men do have the muscle structure to do the throws and the lifts, so I could see two men as a competitive pairs team.

 

[Spun Silver]

Opera is not totally relevant biggrin but in addition to a few famous female duets - eg Countess-Susanna letter duet in Figaro - there is a bigger tradition of female duets where one of the women is singing a male role - the "trouser roles" like Cherubino, Rosenkavalier, and Sesto in Clemenza. FWIW, audiences love 'em.

I'm not sure how this translates to skating, though...

 

[antmanb]

Would a woman have the physical strength to lift another woman, even a light-weight one, or to lift and throw her partner? I'm not sure a woman's musculature could handle that--unless she also trained as a female weight lifter, LOL. On the other hand, men do have the muscle structure to do the throws and the lifts, so I could see two men as a competitive pairs team.

Haven't you seen the female dance skaters that lift their male partners? My coach tells me that dance lifts are all about technique and less about physical strength.

Ant

 

[SugarCranberry]

Would a woman have the physical strength to lift another woman, even a light-weight one, or to lift and throw her partner? I'm not sure a woman's musculature could handle that--unless she also trained as a female weight lifter, LOL. On the other hand, men do have the muscle structure to do the throws and the lifts, so I could see two men as a competitive pairs team.

There are women's pairs and even women's groups of 3 in acrobatics ; so it is not impossible

 

[Mathman]

Opera is not totally relevant biggrin but in addition to a few famous female duets - eg Countess-Susanna letter duet in Figaro - there is a bigger tradition of female duets where one of the women is singing a male role - the "trouser roles" like Cherubino, Rosenkavalier, and Sesto in Clemenza. FWIW, audiences love 'em.

That is definitely the way to go. "Duets" rather than "pairs." A new discipline rather than copying the old.

I always said I could die happy if those two gentle zephyrs Kristi (countess) and Michelle (Susanna) would do Sull'aria.

More generally, why don't all skaters rush to be the first to be the first in line to skate to music from the overature of Figaro?

There could also be mixed duets. JOHNNY AND SASHA!!!!

 

[antmanb]

There could also be mixed duets. JOHNNY AND SASHA!!!!

Imagine the mirrored moves and spins these two could do?

Acutally i think Johnny and Sasha doing a version of Johnny's swan as a duet would be a very beautiful and creative piece.

Ant

 

[NJSk8Fan]

I'd have no problem with same-sex pairs. They don't necessarily, especially the ladies, have to do a bunch of difficult lifts and throws. It could be more the "mirrored" type skating, or dance type skating for the ladies. Possibly the men, with the right match ups, could do some sort of "tricks".
It's a very interesting concept! And I'm sure all we avid skating fans would have no problem with MORE types of skating to watch!

 

[Ladskater]

No thanks - I am a traditionalist. I don't even like the new trick used by ice dancers - the woman lifting the man. I can't see either all male or all female pair teams working. It would look ridiculous. Aslo pair teams are supposed to have chemistry between the two male and female partenrs in order to convey certain moods - like romance. All male and female teams would be limited on their themes.

It might be okay for something like this for a show number, but not for competition.

 

[antmanb]

No thanks - I am a traditionalist. I don't even like the new trick used by ice dancers - the woman lifting the man. I can't see either all male or all female pair teams working. It would look ridiculous. Aslo pair teams are supposed to have chemistry between the two male and female partenrs in order to convey certain moods - like romance. All male and female teams would be limited on their themes.

Why would same sex pairs portraying romance not work?

Ant

 

[Zuranthium]

Well for ice dancing same-sex couples would definitely be fine, although for PAIRS SKATING I really see no way that a Female+Female team could work because of the difficult lifts and the twist throw.

~Z

 

[kendall]

totally agree lol. I would like to see All men pairs too. It would be cool. For ex, Johnny Weir/Emanuel Sandu skate together and compete again Evan Lysuck/Brian Joubert. That would be very interestine! I think if this happen, the new commentator will say the battle of swan vs. .

 

[Zuranthium]

Don't say that last word; you might be harshly reprimanded. These forums are intensely conservative with allowing posters to use real-life language.

~Z

 

[jennylovskt]

No thanks - I am a traditionalist. I don't even like the new trick used by ice dancers - the woman lifting the man. I can't see either all male or all female pair teams working. It would look ridiculous. Aslo pair teams are supposed to have chemistry between the two male and female partenrs in order to convey certain moods - like romance. All male and female teams would be limited on their themes.

It might be okay for something like this for a show number, but not for competition.

I second that. A duet in the show, all men, all women, or man and woman will be fine. (I might, or might not watch them. Don't like ice shows that much anyways.) Definitely not for the competition. This is the last territory in which I defend and enjoyed the traditional beauty of this sport.

 

[Spun Silver]

At the beginning of Lambiel's flamenco no. (see sep. thread), I actually thought it was going to be a dancing duet between two men. And it looked fantastic! The way they were glaring at each other was a great start.

But it turned out pretty well even after Stephane started skating.

 

[SeaniBu]

I like the idea, was talked about a while back in generating publicity. "Tanith and Albena" cheek to cheek. Ya revenue. And I still can not find the pic of Johnny and Rudy practicing a lift.:banging: Very cool stuff IMO. Maybe not suited for competition, or if Dance or Pairs just did not have gender regulations...???? Might upset some, but I bet they would still watch it.

Adding another discipline would mean splitting the purses up more, and that is not a good direction right now. They don't get enough as is and I still believe paying the judges - i.e. like a job - would cure a lot of "conspiracy" possibilities. But I doubt many teams would form with same sex. If any.

 

[Blue Bead]

Haven't you seen the female dance skaters that lift their male partners? My coach tells me that dance lifts are all about technique and less about physical strength.

Ant

After I'd posted that it occured to me that I have seen a dance pair do that, LOL and I think it was Marina Anissina lifting Gwendal, but I have never seen a female pair skater throw her male partner even just goofing around on the ice. There is some truth that techinque plays a part in the action of lifting the pairs partner but could the female sustain that kind of strength throughout the time duration of a competitive program?

 

[merrywidow]

Considering that Fours & Eights have never been very popular l don't think its likely that 2 women or 2 men skating pairs other than in a comedy exhibition routine would become popular. Are there not some competitions (local?) that have singles dance?