The favoritism needs to be dropped- but as long as you have judges marking "artistic" aspects of the performance, you're gonna get some padding (if you're Yuna Kim, Miki Ando, Kostner, et al). One way to possibly lessen this is to make the PCS count for maybe 1/4 of the total score, or throw it out completely.
Any Sasha updates?
- Thread starter kalle
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The favoritism needs to be dropped- but as long as you have judges marking "artistic" aspects of the performance, you're gonna get some padding (if you're Yuna Kim, Miki Ando, Kostner, et al). One way to possibly lessen this is to make the PCS count for maybe 1/4 of the total score, or throw it out completely.
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- Jun 21, 2003
To me, the unanswered question about Sasha is whether she has her triples back, in particular the Lutz and flip. Does she have the technical content to be competitive?
In her latest interview she says that she now feels 100% and is ready to go (unlike five days ago when she was too injured to skate.) We'll see, I guess.
In her latest interview she says that she now feels 100% and is ready to go (unlike five days ago when she was too injured to skate.) We'll see, I guess.
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- Dec 13, 2005
I agree with you Kwanford - and think you may have silenced the "young'uns":agree::thumbsup:
Us "young'uns" are the ones that are going to keep the sport going though - by watching on TV, attending events, teaching new skaters, and judging events. The "young'uns" are also the ones that are going to be the new generations of skaters. Somehow I get the impression that we aren't valued
I don't buy any of it. Just look at the inconsistency here...how could you be so injured you can't even compete in a minor competition- for several months and then the next day, be instantly 100% better- like abracadabra, I just waved my Magic Wand? And Joyce said on NBC this past weekend that she'd resume full time training in two WEEKS. Something doesn't compute. :scratch:
The one explanation is that the skeptics are correct: she was not really injured all this time and just wasn't prepared. Or, she was "sort of" injured, fit enough to compete but chose not to, perhaps out of fear.
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- Jun 21, 2003
Lyra Angelica -- the music that Lori Nichol said she wants to hear playing as she skates through the Pearly Gates.
Look at the quality of Michelle's jump landings!
Yu-na Kim, at the Gala in Korea last summer that Michelle skated in, said that when she was a little girl she memorized all of Muchelle's programs, move for move.
I don't know if "fear" is the right word, but maybe just a self-acknowledgement that her skills are not up to par yet.
A 40-50% Cohen would have (more likely than not) done very well at SA- anywhere from 2nd to 4th. Given how pretty much the entire field bombed (save for Rachel), no one would have really cared that much. Look at Emily Hughes- she obviously wasn't anywhere near her prime but she took the event anyway and put herself out there. Now THAT'S courage.
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- Dec 28, 2006
A 40-50% Cohen would have done very well at SA- anywhere from 2nd to 4th. Given how pretty much the entire field bombed (save for Rachel), no one would have really cared that much. Look at Emily Hughes- she obviously wasn't anywhere near her prime but she took the event anyway and put herself out there. Now THAT'S courage.
I know. I kept thinking that Sasha would have probably medaled easily. With a clean skate SP she would have been been in second going into the free and probably remained there. Sure, Racheal skated clean, but the judges would have put the comeback story ahead with PCS if she made one mistake, two mistakes bronze. Not bad for your first time back. Yu-na wasn't exactly that scary either.
While I agree with you on certain points, I have to disagree on some of your assertions. The CoP wasn't really intended to "improve" the quality of skating in the first place. As you've stated it was just a system devised to allow more transparency in the judging process. Granted, there are still many flaws, but it's unfair to blame the new system for any possible "declines" in skating quality.
On a similar note, I don't really believe that skating quality has even declined that much. There have always been just a few strong talents, and the rest of the field was relatively weak. I feel it's exactly the same today. When you mention the horrible spins and skating quality, you're probably referring to skaters who attempt to appeal to the new system but fail. I've personally found that many skaters integrate the different elements of their skating very well in order to gain those points. I don't see what's wrong with the spins or spirals in particular either. Spins have gotten more interesting to me - some of the positions skaters try now are really interesting. Under the old system, spins were more "traditional" but I like that skaters now integrate more positions and such into their spins. I actually think spirals have gotten better - just look at the spirals of some of the top skaters today. The positions are held longer and skaters strive to add speed and stable edges to their spiral sequences. Some skaters are just not very good at spirals and not willing to improve - but again, this is something that has existed since... the spiral sequence became a required element for ladies.
While I do kind of agree that artistic abilities of skaters have taken a hit since CoP was instituted, I think skaters like Yuna and Mao are good examples of athletes who successfully brought grace and beauty into their programs even under the new system. It's perfectly doable and the decline in artistic quality of many of today's programs is more of an indication of the decline in talent in today's field than simply a result of a new judging system being integrated. Skaters like Sasha and even Michelle were able to combine athleticism with artistic interpretation very well under the system. So do Yuna and Mao. But again, the "well" of skating talent has dried up a bit and the field doesn't have as many strong skaters as it once did.
And also, grand prix events have always been like this. For many of them in the past (and I've been following skating for many years now - maybe not 20-30 years but definitely the past 12 or so years, and I myself am a skater), the winning performances have been let-downs.
The "perfect" 7 triple program is a rare thing in skating, and I think we remember those performances so well because of our favorite skaters like Michelle who has won many titles by skating 7 triple performances. However, that's her. There have been plenty of medalists, even at the Worlds/nationals/olympics level who have not landed even 6 clean triples under the 6.0 system.
I think it's really easy to start pointing fingers at the new system, but I don't think that skating has been affected all too negatively by the system.
This isn't meant to be a vicious post, but I just wanted to put my opinions out there.
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- Nov 7, 2007
While I agree with you on certain points, I have to disagree on some of your assertions. The CoP wasn't really intended to "improve" the quality of skating in the first place. As you've stated it was just a system devised to allow more transparency in the judging process. Granted, there are still many flaws, but it's unfair to blame the new system for any possible "declines" in skating quality.
On a similar note, I don't really believe that skating quality has even declined that much. There have always been just a few strong talents, and the rest of the field was relatively weak. I feel it's exactly the same today. When you mention the horrible spins and skating quality, you're probably referring to skaters who attempt to appeal to the new system but fail. I've personally found that many skaters integrate the different elements of their skating very well in order to gain those points. I don't see what's wrong with the spins or spirals in particular either. Spins have gotten more interesting to me - some of the positions skaters try now are really interesting. Under the old system, spins were more "traditional" but I like that skaters now integrate more positions and such into their spins. I actually think spirals have gotten better - just look at the spirals of some of the top skaters today. The positions are held longer and skaters strive to add speed and stable edges to their spiral sequences. Some skaters are just not very good at spirals and not willing to improve - but again, this is something that has existed since... the spiral sequence became a required element for ladies.
While I do kind of agree that artistic abilities of skaters have taken a hit since CoP was instituted, I think skaters like Yuna and Mao are good examples of athletes who successfully brought grace and beauty into their programs even under the new system. It's perfectly doable and the decline in artistic quality of many of today's programs is more of an indication of the decline in talent in today's field than simply a result of a new judging system being integrated. Skaters like Sasha and even Michelle were able to combine athleticism with artistic interpretation very well under the system. So do Yuna and Mao. But again, the "well" of skating talent has dried up a bit and the field doesn't have as many strong skaters as it once did.
And also, grand prix events have always been like this. For many of them in the past (and I've been following skating for many years now - maybe not 20-30 years but definitely the past 12 or so years, and I myself am a skater), the winning performances have been let-downs.
The "perfect" 7 triple program is a rare thing in skating, and I think we remember those performances so well because of our favorite skaters like Michelle who has won many titles by skating 7 triple performances. However, that's her. There have been plenty of medalists, even at the Worlds/nationals/olympics level who have not landed even 6 clean triples under the 6.0 system.
I think it's really easy to start pointing fingers at the new system, but I don't think that skating has been affected all too negatively by the system.
This isn't meant to be a vicious post, but I just wanted to put my opinions out there.
:thumbsup: Excellent post!
I particularly agree with your point on spins and spirals--under CoP, skaters can't really half-a** their spins and spirals (or even footwork) anymore like some skaters tended to do under 6.0. I like the fact that non-jump elements count for more under CoP--it was a bit sad watching superb elements such as Lucinda Ruh's fantastic spins get virtually ignored under 6.0.
And good point about the rarity of "perfect" programs. With the comfortable rose-tinted lens of nostalgia and retrospect, we do tend to remember the excellent programs that win titles much more than the duds--e.g. Alexei Yagudin's superb gold-winning performances at 2002 Worlds instead of the sloppy mess that was his gold-winning LP at 2000 Worlds. And I think that very consistent skaters like Michelle Kwan--who tend to be the exception as opposed to the rule--have spoiled us figure skating fans.
And really, I don't completely understand it when people complain how figure skating was so artistic and beautiful and wonderful under 6.0 and that CoP has sucked all the artistry out of skating. Sure, under 6.0, you had your Michelle Kwans who had breathtaking programs but 98% of the field seemed to have the same empty programs with little but stroking in between the jumps (spins, footwork and such were of course thrown in somewhere in the 2nd half of the program when most of the jumps were out of the way). Under CoP, we have a lot of boring programs too but then again, we also have a few skaters like Stephane Lambiel who have wonderful programs. With this in mind, has the general level of artistry really changed between the two systems?
I don't think so.
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- May 15, 2009
. Now THAT'S courage.
I was glad to see Emily give a decent performance at SA. :yes:
I was also rooting for her to do well.
But "courage" ??
How about mentioning Emily was gifted to Natls by showing up at SA? She wasn't even the top girl at her own regionals not to mention the other regional winners.
I am happy for Emily and wish her the best of luck at Natls.
But I imagine if Sasha was not the reigning Olympic silver medalist and was offered the same break Emily got then Sasha too would have displayed "courage" and skated at SA, even on one leg if a free pass to Natls came with it.
I suppose that the fact that she has been injured would be authentic. But her comments and interviews tend to sound dramatic. I'd acknowledge it as a part of her star quality. She doesn't necessarily need to bare everything in her mind, but could chose to play her public persona.
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- Dec 13, 2005
Now THAT'S courage.
I wouldn't call that courage. This word gets thrown around way too much in skating - in all sports for that matter. The only skaters I can think of that displayed courage are Jessica Dube following the infamous 2007 accident and Totmianina following the horrific 2004 fall.
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- May 15, 2009
Perhaps there might be a few more examples but I certainly agree in priciple with you. :yes:
and happy to see you picking apart someone else besides me for a change
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- Dec 13, 2005
Perhaps there might be a few more examples but I certainly agree in priciple with you. :yes:
and happy to see you picking apart someone else besides me for a change
Well I had to give you a break sometime I guess
Some folks appear to be picking apart my comment about courage and I would just like to explain. I mean it in the context of what has been going on with Cohen and her last-minute WD from events, assuming she was actually fit enough to compete, even if she couldn't be 100%. Basically, it wouldn't have been the end of the world if she showed up and had a less than optimal showing (actually it may have even taken some of the pressure off). Emily is also playing catch up and she didn't pull out or refuse the invitation. So my comment was simply saying that by competing at SA, Hughes showed she was serious about coming back, even if she wasn't close to her top form.
Hughes competed at Skate America because it bought her a bye to Nationals. She got close to the same score there as she did at Regionals (although she did skate better than at Regionals).
Hughes wasn't being courageous; she knew she wouldn't skate as badly as she did at TEB last year, and that was enough.
Sasha, OTOH, is a perfectionist. She wouldn't show up unless she was confident she could win. Obviously, she felt she if couldn't even win a medal, she wouldn't compete.
Hughes wasn't being courageous; she knew she wouldn't skate as badly as she did at TEB last year, and that was enough.
Sasha, OTOH, is a perfectionist. She wouldn't show up unless she was confident she could win. Obviously, she felt she if couldn't even win a medal, she wouldn't compete.
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- Mar 14, 2006
But that's a big assumption. I understand your theory so no need to repeat it. But I'm wondering how much you know about tendinitis and what the impact of skating hard (competing) would be on a tendinitis that, even by your guess, was only 50-60% healed.
I'm also wondering how you come to the conclusion that she "should" have skated at SA even if it meant hurting herself further and destroying her chances of getting to Nationals & the Olympics.
OTOH, as insane as the world gets, it's good to know that RD will always be here looking for new opportunities to criticize Sasha Cohen. At least some things can be relied on not to change.
I guess it would be too much to ask that we not accuse skaters of lying without good evidence.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2005
Don't you think it seems kind of fishy though that she is now stating in interviews that she has absolutely no more pain when five days ago she was too injured to compete? If she does have Tendinitis it can't be healed in 5 days. :scratch:
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- May 15, 2009
Hello - she might not have been able to train for a few weeks and was told not to train jumps until she was pain free. I see absolutely nothing unbelievable by her statement.
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- Dec 13, 2005
This is the article about her withdrawing from Paris. In it she states the injury affected a couple of her jumps but that she was still able to train. She was also confident that she would be able to attend Skate America:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...asha-cohen-at-her-word-when-cohen-announ.html
In this article she states that she was only 60-70% ready for Skate America (this was published 10 days ago)
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/sports/olympics/10cohen.html
In this article (which was published two days ago) she states she is pain free now.
http://www.reuters.com/article/olympicsNews/idUSSP41621620091117
How do you go from 60% to absolutely pain and problem free in 7 days with a long term injury such as tenditinits
I am not saying that she is lying. It just sounds like something does not quite add up.
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