Best Quality, Biggest Flaw

[jenm]

It's all relative to your peers. I was used to Sasha Cohen laybacks, so you can't really bring a Yuna Kim one (or spirals either) and have me consider that good. So I get what that poster is saying.

Sasha's layback was really fantastic but she was one of the best in history in that area.
I think Yuna's was also good, not the best but still to me was pretty flexible. YMMV of course.

 

[jenm]

Satoko
Best: spins, spirals, skating skills, IN, being queen pineapple
Flaw: jumps (tiny)

Evgenia
Best: consistency, performance (especially in Anna K at the Olympics), otaku cuteness overload
Worst: muscled jumps, flutz, choreo (program looks the same to me)

Gracie
Best: SS, big jumps (although stiff sometimes)
Worst: nerves, stiff upper body movements (windmill arms, etc.)

Kaetlyn
Best: big jumps with great flow
Flaw: LP

Alina:
Best: +3Lo, STAMINA (doing all those jumps at the end of her program,WOW)
Flaw: skates like a junior despite being able to do difficult steps (but it's her 1st year in senior so that's understandable)

--

Yuna
Best: best jumps overall, musicality, speed and flow, IN, ARMS!!, according to David Wilson "a choreographer's dream" which I totally agree, being a goddess
Flaw: spirals, turnout, layback spin in 2012 - 2014

Mao
Best: steps, musicality, light and beautiful skating, also being a cutiepie
Flaw: speed during her pre-vancouver days, inconsistency

Caro:
Best: SS, jump air position and landing
Flaw: telegraphed jumps, inconsistency, the almost nekkid scheherazade costume that beat the lime jumpsuit of nightmares

 

[karne]

Plushenko's jumps are definitely not textbook technique. His flip is wrong edge, lutz is kind of like a loop. He's just usually consistent, but also can melt down big time.

What?!



Yes, Plushy had a lip. Like many other very good male skaters. His Lutz kind of like a loop? What ridiculousness is this? And don't even get me started on the meltdown remark. Even his most ardent haters generally admit he was solid as a rock. The last real meltdown was when he was what, 18?

 

[Yuzuruu]

What a fun thread!

Men:

Yuzu
BQ: basically everything perfect technique, perfect interpertation, perfect lines
BF: butt spin - Yuzu plz stop this nonsense

Shoma:
BQ: skating skills, interpretation
BF: jumping technique overall

Boyang:
BQ: 4Lz baby!
BF: skating quality, some of the landings

Misha Kolyada:
BQ: 3Lz and 3A boss, great skating skills
BF: I don't get his interpretation; the planned fall on 4Lz

Nathan Chen:
BQ: quads in general
BF: lacks transitions, his FS is just preparing for another quad, lacks interpretation because he is so focued on the jumps

Patrick Chan:
BQ: skating skills GOD, 4T is perfection when hit
BF: 3A, sometimes lacks confidence and then misses his jumps

Javier Fernandez:
BQ: charm, good SS, gorgeous 4S, 4T and 3A
BF: I guess nerves, sometimes bombs

Ladies:

Kaetlyn Osmond:
BQ: HUGE jumps, great SS, fast and crisp
BF: consistency (although managed to peak in crucial moments this year )

Gabby Daleman:
BQ: huge jumps like KO, fast skater, good interpretation
BF: can get over her head and then bombs

Tiny Queen Satoko:
BQ: everything apart from jumps
BF: jumps

Caro Kostner:
BQ: mighty heavens her LINES are so perfect; interpretation; 3F when hit is ideal
BF: I guess she maybe lacks the stamina of younger ladies and can't keep up when it comes to jumping

Kaori Sakamoto:
BQ: good jumps, charming personality
BF: ugh the Flutz; a bit juvenile in her interpretation

Bradie:
BQ: consistency
BF: tends to be boring; has really bad posture

Mirai Nagasu:
BQ: 3A
BF: lacks transitions, telegraphed jumps, carrots

Ashley Wagner:
BQ: interpreatation of music, general flow in her jumps
BF: poor spins and transitions

Alina Zagitova:
BQ: jumps and SS
BF: rushes ahead of the music; juniorish interpretation; backloading; doesn't finish the moves because her program is too packed with them; sometimes has uncalled URs

Evgenia Medvedeva:
BQ: consistency
BF: JUMPS: giant Flutz that's never called, bad technique on all toe jump, poor 2A, muscled jumps; for me it's also her interpretation, when compared to skaters like Yuzu or Satoko she is really lacking in that department.

Pairs:


Savchenko/Massot:
BQ: interpretation, her SS, music choices, the best throw twist in the biz
BF: Bruno is just not as good as Aljona and its noticable; she sometimes two foots landings on throw jumps

Sui/Han:
BQ: perfect SS, gorgeous interpretation, great jumps when they hit them, they are small but skate BIG
BF: Wenjing's ankles :sad4:

Tarasova/Morozov
BQ: good technicians, work great together
BF: a little robotic, the music choices kill me

Duhamel/Radford
BQ: good technique, nice interpretation
BF: I don't like their 3Lz's; SS are not that great

Dance:


Shibs:
BQ: amazing technique, beautiful interpretation, just stunning
BF: I don't consider it a flaw but judges seem to hold them down because they are siblings

Chock/Bates
BQ: beautiful skaters, work great toghether, the best lifts
BF: also I think the judges hold some kind of grudge againts this couple

Virtue/Moir
BQ: everything (sorry )
BF: nothing (sorry )

Papadakis/Cizeron:
BQ: great interpretation (I don't like the Ed Sheeran medley but I still think they do a good job in it); creative lifts
BF: often poor twizzles, out of synch; Gabby's SS are not on Gui's level

Hubbel/Donohue:
BQ: good skating skills
BF: Zach is prone to mistakes and falls; they project too much sex for my liking; Zach's weird attitude towards his competitors sometimes

 

[Danibellerika]

Sasha's layback was really fantastic but she was one of the best in history in that area.
I think Yuna's was also good, not the best but still to me was pretty flexible. YMMV of course.

Well that's just my cross to bear that she was the first one to bring me into the sport (to uber levels) and that became my standard. Anything less is substandard, so I've had to see a lot of substandard, not just Yuna. I just don't see what you're seeing there (the turned down free leg alone is ) but that's the issue with subjectivity.

 

[charlotte14]

Yes, Plushy had a lip. Like many other very good male skaters. His Lutz kind of like a loop? What ridiculousness is this? And don't even get me started on the meltdown remark. Even his most ardent haters generally admit he was solid as a rock. The last real meltdown was when he was what, 18?

Because that is the truth: https://youtu.be/5JJjIzNOkLk
Plushenko had full blade take-off.

 

[kwanatic]

Pretty much agree on everything. :yes: And :sad21: at Wakaba's flaw so far. With her body structure working against her, it would be difficult for her Wakaba to make beautiful lines. (She has the same body structure as Michelle Kwan I think, so maybe watching some of her programs would be beneficial to develop her lines?)

I don't think Michelle is a good body comparison for Wakaba. Michelle's listed at 5'2" whereas Wakaba is 5'0". Michelle wasn't tall but her body was well proportioned in terms of the length of her arms, legs and torso so she had a longer leaner look on the ice despite not being that tall. Add that to her grace, extension and completeness of her movements and that gave her beautiful lines.

Wakaba OTOH is stockier in terms of her length. Her arms and legs are shorter and she's more compact. I don't know if there's much she can do to extend her lines beyond what they are. However, I wouldn't say her lines are bad. She's never going to be a Carolina because her body isn't built like that. However, I do think she could benefit from studying skaters like Michelle, Carolina and Mao in terms of improving her stretch and flow of movement...really all skaters would benefit from studying them.

 

[Tutto]

Shoma Uno
BQ Competitive spirit
BF Jumping technique

Mikhail Kolyada
BQ Jumping technique
BF Competitive spirit or rather lack of it

Now, if only these two could 'help' each other we would get two complete skaters

 

[jenm]

Well that's just my cross to bear that she was the first one to bring me into the sport (to uber levels) and that became my standard. Anything less is substandard, so I've had to see a lot of substandard, not just Yuna. I just don't see what you're seeing there (the turned down free leg alone is ) but that's the issue with subjectivity.

I understand you. It's the same with me with Yuna's jumps.
Anyway, I was only talking about her flexibility being decent and disagree that she "lacks" it.
I agree with you on her free leg. I was saying she had good back flexibility and said her hip and leg could be better.

 

[narcissa]

I understand you. It's the same with me with Yuna's jumps.
Anyway, I was only talking about her flexibility being decent and disagree that she "lacks" it.
I agree with you on her free leg. I was saying she had good back flexibility and said her hip and leg could be better.

Prior to 2013, Yuna had a great layback. Well, maybe because I don't care about free leg turn out at all (it's literally something I don't notice unless pointed out - no pun intended ), but Yuna had a very fast layback spin with a great back position, and great ARMS!! Her side layback variation is also fast and aesthetic as well. In fact, Yuna's layback spin is what convinced me to start skating with the goal to one day do a layback spin, so I can say I like it very much (Look at this!)

 

[temadd]

Kostner

BQ: light airy jumps
BF: costumes & tech ability

Wagner

BQ: performance and interpretation are unmatched
BF: Inconsistency on jumps

Medvedeva

BQ: Consistency, Best competition nerves in the skating world
BF: Muscled jumps

Zagitova

BQ: 3Lz-3Lo-3Lo-3Lo . . . . .
BF: choreography

Kaori Sakamoto

BQ: performance, my favorite performer behind Ashley
BF: I love everything about her

Osmond

BQ: beautiful, effortless, high jumps
BF: always looks rushed

Daleman

BQ: 3T-3T
BF: Meltdowns

Tennell

BQ: solid jumps and spins
BF: choreography

Hanyu

BQ: ability to rise to the occasion on the olympic ice
BF: connection to the audience - I find him to be cold

Rippon

BQ: connection to the music and audience
BF: lack of a quad and crossovers

N Chen

BQ: jumps and beautiful arms
BF: spins

 

[theharleyquinn]

May do men and pairs later.

Ladies

Kaetlyn Osmond
BQ: Beautiful and big jumps when she's on, shows a "spark" in her interpretation
BF: Wears her anxiety on her face and bad pacing/stiffness when she's off, sometimes seems like she has to make a flub early on to make it through a program

Gabby Daleman
BQ: Beautiful and big jumps, 3T-3T, sheer power and athleticism, has a unique pizzazz
BF: Jumping technique can sometimes go haywire, mistakes tend to snowball

Carolina Kostner
BQ: Interpretation, elegant lines despite her height
BF: Jumping technique, don't actually think her facial expressions always align with the message of the music (pet peeve)

Alina Zagitova
BQ: Stamina, jumping ability, reliable on difficult combinations
BF: Interpretation, unfinished and sometimes unelegant lines, spins are just okay

Bradie Tennell
BQ: Consistency, clean jumps
BF: Interpretation (but I think this is more of a choreography/music problem - not completely a "juniorish" problem)

Karen Chen
BQ: Spins, spirals, elegance, interpretation
BF: URs, boot issues as a physical and psychological hurdle

Kaori Sakamoto
BQ: Charm, big jumps, can backload without the program feeling empty, well rounded
BF: Interpretation could use refinement

Evgenia Medvedeva
BQ: Character-driven interpretation, feels elegant, consistency
BF: Jumps are too obviously labored/muscled, infamous flutz

Satoko Miyahara
BQ: interpretation, sheer elegance
BF: microscopic jumps, sometimes her interpretation doesn't fully project to the audience

Maria Sotskova
BQ: skating feels delicate in an elegant way, charm
BF: tragic tano arms, meltdowns, inconsistency

Wakaba Higuchi
BQ: skates big, beautiful jumps, athletic, has top tier expressiveness when she's on
BF: inconsistency in competition

Ice Dance

Shib Sibs
BQ: Twizzles, synergy, reliable and sharp technique
BF: Music choices are sometimes ill-fitted

Chock/Bates
BQ: Some of the best synergy on the ice, fast transitions, beautiful lifts
BF: Sometimes error prone, do catch the short stick among US teams in PCS (sometimes unfairly)

Hubbell/Donahue
BQ: Chemistry, Maddie's SS, athleticism and power, can do modern programs well and stand out
BF: Error prone

Papadakis/Cizeron
BQ: Guillaume's SS, the most elegant people on the ice, innovation
BF: Find their interpretation to sometimes be too internal

Virtue/Moir
BQ: Strong sense of identity -> Excellent program choices, chemistry, choreography
BF: Hard time coming up with anything...

 

[Izabela]

I don't think Michelle is a good body comparison for Wakaba. Michelle's listed at 5'2" whereas Wakaba is 5'0". Michelle wasn't tall but her body was well proportioned in terms of the length of her arms, legs and torso so she had a longer leaner look on the ice despite not being that tall. Add that to her grace, extension and completeness of her movements and that gave her beautiful lines.

Wakaba OTOH is stockier in terms of her length. Her arms and legs are shorter and she's more compact. I don't know if there's much she can do to extend her lines beyond what they are. However, I wouldn't say her lines are bad. She's never going to be a Carolina because her body isn't built like that. However, I do think she could benefit from studying skaters like Michelle, Carolina and Mao in terms of improving her stretch and flow of movement...really all skaters would benefit from studying them.

I made the comparison on the account that they both are not "tall" and "lean" in comparison to skaters who are normally construed to make beautiful lines. I think Michelle, although proportionate, is also on the stockier side when it comes to body structure. Wakaba's body is also well proportioned, I don't see much problem with that. I also don't have problems with the lines she makes (and not the biggest flaw I would associate with her). I just pointed out that Michelle as you well put it, has a great stretch and it would be beneficial for Wakaba so study that. :yes:

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don't think Michelle is a good body comparison for Wakaba. Michelle's listed at 5'2" whereas Wakaba is 5'0". Michelle wasn't tall but her body was well proportioned in terms of the length of her arms, legs and torso so she had a longer leaner look on the ice despite not being that tall. Add that to her grace, extension and completeness of her movements and that gave her beautiful lines.

Wakaba OTOH is stockier in terms of her length. Her arms and legs are shorter and she's more compact. I don't know if there's much she can do to extend her lines beyond what they are. However, I wouldn't say her lines are bad. She's never going to be a Carolina because her body isn't built like that. However, I do think she could benefit from studying skaters like Michelle, Carolina and Mao in terms of improving her stretch and flow of movement...really all skaters would benefit from studying them.

I agree... Wakaba needs to show greater extension and hold her positions longer (especially on her landings), which often feel a bit too rushed. She doesn't need tall, lean limbs, she just needs to actually take a moment to complete her movements. For example, when she does her Besti squat in her Bond program, that's a nice highlight because she take the time to bring out the nuance in the movement and the music.

 

[chopinskate]

What is with everyone saying Kostner's tech is her biggest flaw? She's inconsistent, sure, but she had the cleanest technique by far in WC18.

Kostner
BQ: Clean technique -- Jumps AND Skating Skills.
BF: Inconsistency

 

[yume]

Well maybe she has clean technique but she don't use it very well with all those falls and pops.

 

[chopinskate]

So that's inconsistency to me.

 

[yume]

I think that when people talk about her tech they mean the usual content that she shows in her programs, mostly the free skate.

 

[Osmond4gold]

What is with everyone saying Kostner's tech is her biggest flaw? She's inconsistent, sure, but she had the cleanest technique by far in WC18.

Kostner
BQ: Clean technique -- Jumps AND Skating Skills.
BF: Inconsistency

Whada??? I think you forget to mention her missing Lutz in the SP and only the double in the LP. Yes, I too was mesmerized by ''Ne me quitter pas'', but c'mon, ...she did not have the most technical difficult jumps or combos overall, and had the 18th best BV result in the LP, of the competition. So technically the cleanest, was it?

When one does not do the scheduled program, it can be easy to be technique clean, albeit with 2 pops and a fall.

 

[charlotte14]

Whatda??? I think you forget to mention her missing Lutz in the SP and only the double in the LP. Yes, I too was mesmerized by ''Ne me quitter pas'', but c'mon, ...she did not have the most technical difficult jumps or combos overall, and had the 18th best BV result of the competition. So technically the cleanest, was it?

Carolina at her peak in general had the best technique.