Boot size help

[qn3t]

Hello! I've been considering buying new skates but I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out the size.

I currently have skates size 38 EU, they fit okay, but they are meant for recreational skating. I'd like to upgrade to something more serious and order new skates online, probably second hand, because I don't have the opportunity to visit a professional shop in my country.

My feet length is approx. 24,5 and width is approx. 9cm. I've been considering brands like edea or risport. I know there's a lot of things to consider but I'd like to figure out first, what size would fit me better, whether 245, 250, 255, or something else?

I'll appreciate any personal experience or help, thank you

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Hello! I've been considering buying new skates but I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out the size.

I currently have skates size 38 EU, they fit okay, but they are meant for recreational skating. I'd like to upgrade to something more serious and order new skates online, probably second hand, because I don't have the opportunity to visit a professional shop in my country.

My feet length is approx. 24,5 and width is approx. 9cm. I've been considering brands like edea or risport. I know there's a lot of things to consider but I'd like to figure out first, what size would fit me better, whether 245, 250, 255, or something else?

I'll appreciate any personal experience or help, thank you

Hi and welcome. You cannot just measure yourself. Also, what skating level are you (what skills), what is your height/weight, arch type (very high/high/normal/low/flat? And what type of foot do you have?

 

[qn3t]

Hi and welcome. You cannot just measure yourself. Also, what skating level are you (what skills), what is your height/weight, arch type (very high/high/normal/low/flat? And what type of foot do you have?

Thank you for welcoming me! I'm quite a beginner in terms of figure skating, but I can confidently skate forwards and backwards and do crossovers both f&b too. I'm trying to get more comfortable with the edges and I'd like to jump sometime too, but my current skates are definitely not safe for that, because they don't have much ankle support and I dont want to risk some injuries. I'd like to buy some skates that would last me a good amount of time and I could progress well with them too. I'm 160cm tall and just a little bit over 50kg, still a teen but I won't grow anymore. My arches are low and my foot type is probably the closest to Egyptian or Norwegian.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thank you for welcoming me! I'm quite a beginner in terms of figure skating, but I can confidently skate forwards and backwards and do crossovers both f&b too. I'm trying to get more comfortable with the edges and I'd like to jump sometime too, but my current skates are definitely not safe for that, because they don't have much ankle support and I dont want to risk some injuries. I'd like to buy some skates that would last me a good amount of time and I could progress well with them too. I'm 160cm tall and just a little bit over 50kg, still a teen but I won't grow anymore. My arches are low and my foot type is probably the closest to Egyptian or Norwegian.

Edea Overture would be fine, as would Risport Royal Pro. You would also need blades. You'd be okay in an Ultima Mirage or Aspire.

 

[qn3t]

Edea Overture would be fine, as would Risport Royal Pro. You would also need blades. You'd be okay in an Ultima Mirage or Aspire.

Thanks for the tip! And do you perhaps have some experience with the sizings? I've done some research and some websites say that it's good to add 10mm extra, but some say that 10mm is just for kids, where growth is still expected so I'm quite unsure

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thanks for the tip! And do you perhaps have some experience with the sizings? I've done some research and some websites say that it's good to add 10mm extra, but some say that 10mm is just for kids, where growth is still expected so I'm quite unsure

@tstop4me or @IceM Could you help with their sizing question please?

 

[IceM]

Thanks for the tip! And do you perhaps have some experience with the sizings? I've done some research and some websites say that it's good to add 10mm extra, but some say that 10mm is just for kids, where growth is still expected so I'm quite unsure

Assuming the measurements are semi accurate, go for 250 in either Riport or Edea. You could probably size down to 245, but that's personal preference. Better to start with 250. Just don't go 255. Width you can always get stretched. For you, wider is better (C is ok). Size 9 1/4 blade should work for both brands in those sizes.

Good luck!

 

[tstop4me]

I'd like to upgrade to something more serious and order new skates online, probably second hand, because I don't have the opportunity to visit a professional shop in my country.

I've done some research and some websites say that it's good to add 10mm extra, but some say that 10mm is just for kids, where growth is still expected so I'm quite unsure

* Length isn't a sufficient measurement for proper fit. Length plus ball width aren't sufficient either. E.g., a common issue that figure skaters run into is that even if the length and ball width are nominally correct, the heel is too loose.

* If you really can't travel to a competent professional fitter, then one option you should consider is a virtual fitting. Some skaters here have had success with this. If you tell us where you are located (town and country), someone may be able to recommend a competent virtual fitter.

* If you don't go that route either, then I recommend that you get detailed fitting instructions for each boot manufacturer that you are considering. Instructions vary by manufacturer as to what measurements, tracings, or photos to take and how this info is converted to a size recommendation (including permissible margins). Edea publishes their fitting instructions here: https://edeaskates.com/en/whats-my-size/measuring/. I suggest you email Risport for their current detailed fitting instructions. (Previous Risport catalogs contained partial instructions; they are missing from their latest catalog.)

* As @Ic3Rabbit cautioned you above, you can't take measurements on your own feet: you can skew the measurements badly. Is there a (regular) shoe fitter near you? You could take the boot manufacturers' instructions to them. That would be better than asking a random inexperienced friend or family member to do it.

* If you order online, what is your plan for boot modifications, initial blade mounting, and blade mounting modifications (some online dealers will do an initial blade mount, but boots typically can't be returned once blades are mounted on them)? Only if you are extremely lucky will everything work straight out of the box. Figure skating boots and blades (even for beginners) are pricey these days. Something for you to think about before you order online.

 

[IceM]

* Length isn't a sufficient measurement for proper fit. Length plus ball width aren't sufficient either. E.g., a common issue that figure skaters run into is that even if the length and ball width are nominally correct, the heel is too loose.

All good information, and definitely worth considering, especially for competing athletes.

In OP's case, however, I think an accurate length measurement is all they need and should really focus on getting right, instead of worrying about too many variables. Heel being too loose is a big no no, but both Risport and Edea already come with the narrowest heels in stock boots, so a loose ankle is not an issue, unless one has super narrow ankles, in which case they'd need custom boots, which is unlikely the case here (or for vast majority of people, especially beginners). And for wider ankles (also unlikely), the boot can simply be stretched. Neither Edea or Risport boots come in split widths: the heel is the same for all widths. In fact, the entire upper is exactly the same accross all widths for a given size, the ball is merely stretched at the factory to match the width label; meaning getting a B width boot and stretching it to C at a shop gives you the exact same boot as ordering it in C width from the factory – for these brands that is.

 

[Query]

* Length isn't a sufficient measurement for proper fit. Length plus ball width aren't sufficient either. E.g., a common issue that figure skaters run into is that even if the length and ball width are nominally correct, the heel is too loose.

Another issue is that because typical figure skates have such a strong upwards bend near the ball of the foot, and the ball of the foot is typically the most flexible part of the foot in terms of bending upwards, the heel-to-ball length (sometimes called arch length) is usually a better measurement to match than the heel-to-forward-most-toe length - unless that creates a boot that is too short to fit the toes. At least that is what the most respected fitter that I knew, whose customers included many world class skaters, said.

If you try to bend bones by putting the ball of the foot a significant distance from that upwards bend, it is easy to fracture your foot bones, or to create other injuries.

But most shoes sizes are measured heel-to-forward-most-toe length. (The Brannock devices that many shoe stores use are designed to measure both lengths - but a lot of shoe sales people don't do that.) So normally measured foot lengths are often inappropriate.

On top of this and other issues, different boot companies assume you will take measurements in somewhat different ways. E.g., sitting or standing, angles of the writing implement when tracing the foot, etc. Many fitters say they try to take measurements for a given boot company's boots the way that particular boot company says to. So that probably makes more sense than assuming otherwise.

If you can afford them, podiatrists and orthotists typically have professional level training in fitting shoes for athletes, usually better than most regular shoe sales people. Usually not skates in particular, but I think they might do better than an average shoe salesman. Ideally, skating coaches should be good at it too - though some of them don't seem to be.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Another issue is that because typical figure skates have such a strong upwards bend near the ball of the foot, and the ball of the foot is typically the most flexible part of the foot in terms of bending upwards, the heel-to-ball length (sometimes called arch length) is usually a better measurement to match than the heel-to-forward-most-toe length - unless that creates a boot that is too short to fit the toes. At least that is what the most respected fitter that I knew, whose customers included many world class skaters, said.

If you try to bend bones by putting the ball of the foot a significant distance from that upwards bend, it is easy to fracture your foot bones, or to create other injuries.

But most shoes sizes are measured heel-to-forward-most-toe length. (The Brannock devices that many shoe stores use are designed to measure both lengths - but a lot of shoe sales people don't do that.) So normally measured foot lengths are often inappropriate.

On top of this and other issues, different boot companies assume you will take measurements in somewhat different ways. E.g., sitting or standing, angles of the writing implement when tracing the foot, etc. Many fitters say they try to take measurements for a given boot company's boots the way that particular boot company says to. So that probably makes more sense than assuming otherwise.

If you can afford them, podiatrists and orthotists typically have professional level training in fitting shoes for athletes, usually better than most regular shoe sales people. Usually not skates in particular, but I think they might do better than an average shoe salesman. Ideally, skating coaches should be good at it too - though some of them don't seem to be.

Most skating coaches have no idea about skates and how to fit or suggest for a person what would be best.

 

[Query]

Maybe there should maybe be a boot fit training module they go through to get certified as coaches?

If you had to guess, what fraction of figure skaters are skating on boots that don't fit them, or are the wrong stiffness? And what fraction are skating on badly sharpened blades?

Maybe each boot and blade manufacturer should make videos showing how their equipment should be fit and maintained, and suggest that every coach and every tech watch them? Maybe more than suggest. Maybe techs in particular should have to be tested in order to be certified to sell each company's products.

Ski sales people have told me that they couldn't work on my boots and skis, because they weren't certified, and there were liability issues associated with working on them without manufacturer certification. I think the same should apply to skates.

I know some people think that job should be left to skate techs. But skate techs are often not very well trained. I wish coaches had that training too. Maybe they could make extra income that way, in between ice skating sessions. I think they should at least be able to recognize when there is a problem that affects their students.

 

[tstop4me]

Another issue is that because typical figure skates have such a strong upwards bend near the ball of the foot, and the ball of the foot is typically the most flexible part of the foot in terms of bending upwards, the heel-to-ball length (sometimes called arch length) is usually a better measurement to match than the heel-to-forward-most-toe length - unless that creates a boot that is too short to fit the toes. At least that is what the most respected fitter that I knew, whose customers included many world class skaters, said.

If you try to bend bones by putting the ball of the foot a significant distance from that upwards bend, it is easy to fracture your foot bones, or to create other injuries.

But most shoes sizes are measured heel-to-forward-most-toe length. (The Brannock devices that many shoe stores use are designed to measure both lengths - but a lot of shoe sales people don't do that.) So normally measured foot lengths are often inappropriate.

<<Emphasis added>> By your own admission, simply replacing the typical heel-to-longest-toe length with the heel-to-ball length won't always be appropriate either. So what's the point? Feet have complex 3D geometries. Trying to characterize a complex 3D geometry with one or two measurements for an application requiring fairly precise fit (such as figure skating) is naive.

 

[Query]

It was just an example. The o.p. mentioned measuring (presumably overall) length and width - which aren't enough, and is often deceptive.

It may be naive, but a lot of less than fully competent boot fitters do exactly that. Some don't even measure width. The thing is, it sounds like the o.p. wants to figure out what boots to buy themselves - which could easily lead to problems. It's hard to figure out what such a person can do and be likely to get things right. But overall length is supposed to usually be wrong, because of the problem I mentioned.

I don't personally think a slightly loose heel is an overwhelming problem - because there are many ways to fill that space, and fix that problem. And there are a lot of professionals trained to do that. Stretching boots is harder - especially at the bottom, near the soles, where it is nearly impossible.

Are there really any virtual fitters who can usually do a good job? That sounds like an almost impossible task too. For starters, you ideally need a full 3D shape, not just a tracing. E.g., I think most people would have trouble using casting socks. And even that - the medical people say that some people need extra support on certain parts of their feet, which you can't determine from a static fit.

Some of the boot makers occasionally send out factory fitters to do fits, to various stores. One would hope they do a better job than a random walking shoe store person would do. Also, I think it makes sense to ask the boot makers what local fitters they've had the best experiences with. When I've asked, they had definite opinions about that.