Campbell's event announced officially

[Doggygirl]

Does anyone know for sure??

Win a cheesefest -- $50K. Win a GP ($18K) -- $36K. A cheesefest lets skaters make more money with less work. That is one h*** of a temptation.

I suspect MK has a contract for the Cheesefests, that would probably cost her a bundle of $$ to get out of. This is only my assumption and I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if other singles such as Sasha, Johnny, etc. are under contracts??? Does anyone actually know for sure???

Even though Speedy sent out some Hate Mail last year "threatening" those seeded skaters who did not participate in GP, I get the feeling there is not much teeth to that. So if the US contracts for the Cheesefests are considered (by lawyers) "enforceable" it will be interesting to see who decides to do what competitions, and how that plays out physically for everyone by Torino.

And BTW Joe, ITA that the Cheesefests involve a practice and a freeskate - not days of serious competition. So I don't buy that "too much travel" business either for short trips such as St. Paul to Atlantic City. Especially for skaters who are able to endure a COI tour with several cities, and sometimes multiple shows per day in any given week over the course of a long tour - which might involve long bus rides in addition to long plane rides, and lot's of junk food along the way. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall listening to the strategy discussions!

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! Can't wait.

DG

 

[chipso1]

Anyway we can look forward to the endless gushing or bashing of their costumes and new music and choreographies at Campbells while Irina is tearing Tokyo apart with 3x3x2s, and Bielmans in yet new ways.

Joe

I have a hunch that we'll be seeing plenty of Bielmans and new combos in St. Paul . . . . . I mean, everybody and their coach's mother are doing them these days . . . . . :sheesh:

I do want to see MK do the GP to get back in the ISU's good graces, but she's the only one that knows what's best for her . . ..

 

[antmanb]

Actually, most skaters do the GP as well as some cheesefests. I think that last year, where, in addition to MK, Sasha got injured and had to withdraw; Plushy said, at Marshall's that his illness in the summer kept him from being ready for two of his GP events, was a fluke. I think a lot of different concerns have arisen since so many skaters were injured at Worlds -- and Plushy's workload over the past three years did not help him in Moscow.

Also -- if MK or SC gets sick before the GPF (which is only two weeks before Nats), doesn't the ISU get to have them checked by their own doctors? Could MK or SC try quads or triple axels, knowing that they will fall -- so they don't qualify for GPF

I don't think either of them would risk such tricky elements and risk injuring themselves in an olympic year. I guess they could show up at the second competition and do doubles for the last few jumping passes to lose points so as not to qualify for the final but then what's the point in doing the GP and not going for it? So far the arguments for kwan have been win everything so that you go in to the Olys as the one the judges will reward in the PCS score - if you don't win then that one goes out the window. The second argument (which is the one i agree with more) is that she needs to go out there and lay down the content that she expects to perform at the Olympics be it 5, 6 or 7 triples and get used to doing it - if she gives herself an out on the basis that she doesn't want to qualify then that's no good either.

I say she has nothing to lose in going out to win both GPs, regardless what the ISU says just plane refuse to do the GPF - the ISU cannot bar her from the Nationals which the USFS regulates and they can't bar her from the Olympics since its the IOC which regulates that and the USFS are the ones who select who goes to the Olympics, the only thing the ISU could try to do is ban her from worlds...wouldn't that be great if this all happens and kwan could leave the eligible ranks by launching legal action for the ISU acting ultra vires in banning her from worlds?

Now that would be the dream come ture (with her winning gold at the Olys of course)!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

If they get sick, that would be quite convenient. Wouldn't it? They both suffered relapses in their backs last season but not for Campbells. What if they got sick before the Campbells? Will they get better in time for the GPs or save themselves for the All American Nationals?

PS. I can't imagine either one of them ever even attempting those jumps. I think Sasha learned her lesson and Michelle is quite firm with her 3t.2t.2r.

Anyway we can look forward to the endless gushing or bashing of their costumes and new music and choreographies at Campbells while Irina is tearing Tokyo apart with 3x3x2s, and Bielmans in yet new ways.

Joe

Genuine question because i didn't see any GPS last year - how many 3/3s did Irina land last season - didn't she only land one at worlds (admittedly THE one but still...). Irina rarely shows up at the start of a season with her full jump arsenal - none of the skaters do except maybe pluschenko and he's coming back from surgery so i wouldn't expect him to be pulling off two quads and all his triples at the start of the season. It usually takes both Irina and Carolina about half the season to get warmed back into their jumps so i don't expect to see anything outstanding in the jumps department. Now the choreography and spins is a different story!

Ant

 

[antmanb]

I suspect MK has a contract for the Cheesefests, that would probably cost her a bundle of $$ to get out of. This is only my assumption and I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if other singles such as Sasha, Johnny, etc. are under contracts??? Does anyone actually know for sure???

Even though Speedy sent out some Hate Mail last year "threatening" those seeded skaters who did not participate in GP, I get the feeling there is not much teeth to that. So if the US contracts for the Cheesefests are considered (by lawyers) "enforceable" it will be interesting to see who decides to do what competitions, and how that plays out physically for everyone by Torino.

And BTW Joe, ITA that the Cheesefests involve a practice and a freeskate - not days of serious competition. So I don't buy that "too much travel" business either for short trips such as St. Paul to Atlantic City. Especially for skaters who are able to endure a COI tour with several cities, and sometimes multiple shows per day in any given week over the course of a long tour - which might involve long bus rides in addition to long plane rides, and lot's of junk food along the way. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I wish I could be a fly on the wall listening to the strategy discussions!

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! Can't wait.

DG

BUT...on a tour the skaters do what - three triples max in a program, there is no pressure because if you pop it or fall you're not going to lose. The physical demands of a tour are great but the emotional demands of a competition are much much greater. Whether it s cheesefest or not you're still having to do your competitive free skate - for the first cheesfest you're debuting your new program so the nerves would be about as much as they get knowing that fans and judges will use that program to cast their first opinion of your olympic free program and use it as the benchmark for the rest of the season. The eyes of the world watching to see if you will attemp that elusive 3/3, try for 7 triples, go for a new spin, hold that spiral for 3 seconds...i think that would be a killer.

The mental difference between an exhibition where the point is to project and present to a friendly audience (who largely can't tell the differnce between a double and a triple; or a lutz and a toe loop) who have paid and chosen to come and watch you skate compared to a competition where every last placement of the blade and body is scrutinized by a set of judges and a technical specialist, where you have that one performance and that's it - where you are trying twice the number of jumps within a set amount of time...i think it makes a huge difference.

And to pump yourself up with the energy and drive to compete like that cannot be easy to do in back to back weeks...plus don't forget that it throws your training routine out more than anything. The thing skaters complain about competitions is that it throws your normal routine out - you can't practice as much as you normally do and find yourself with much more time not on the ice with only the compeition to think about. If you do more competitions then that's another week of changing your training schedule. Before any compeitition you have to have some clear time of no practice at all to allow your body to recvoer to full power before competing and then the competiion take sit out of you. You need at least a couple of weeks after that to get back to training and get the cycle working again.

Never underestimate what goes into preparing for 4 mins on the ice.

Anthony

 

[dr.frog]

I suspect MK has a contract for the Cheesefests, that would probably cost her a bundle of $$ to get out of. This is only my assumption and I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if other singles such as Sasha, Johnny, etc. are under contracts??? Does anyone actually know for sure???

Kwan and other top US skaters *used* to be under contract to the USFSA, but last year the USFSA stopped doing that as part of their budget-cutting. Instead they now offer prize money at the cheesefests and bonus money for medals at international competitions, but the amounts of money are said to be significantly less than what the skaters used to be getting in terms of appearance fees. OTOH, at least the bonus money is being paid to any skater who qualifies for it and not just those who the USFSA chooses to put under contract now, so a more skaters are getting funding from that source.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

dr frog - I think what we are driving at is that Campbells and Marshalls are offering, I presume, contracts with big bucks for showing up. Nothing to do with the prize money. Don't forget this competition is a big commerical venture and what better way to advertise their products than using the two top US ladies.

I do believe MK knows what is best for herself be it money or medals. We don't know, and I believe her fans will say, it doesn't matter that we do not know. So that ends that argument.

From my point of view she has not shown any motivation in winning competitions in the past two years other than the American judged US Nats. She will want to break that record this coming Nats, but will she if the CoP is used? Aside from the two time world silver medalist there is the arguably new favorite coming on the scene Ms. Meissner.

I don't believe she has the motivation that Irina (a more unhealthy and older competitor) has to win the Olympics. And as I said last season that I feared she would not make the podium. That still holds for the Olys.

Now, and I will say no more about this especially if she appears in Atlantic City and goes on to China. That will prove to me that she is motivated. Even if she doesn't win the comps, she will change my mind about the Olys.

Joe

 

[attyfan]

I suspect MK has a contract for the Cheesefests, that would probably cost her a bundle of $$ to get out of. This is only my assumption and I could be completely wrong. Wouldn't surprise me if other singles such as Sasha, Johnny, etc. are under contracts??? Does anyone actually know for sure???
LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!! Can't wait.

DG

I don't know for sure, but all last year, the commentators were talking about how the appearance fees (i.e., money payable under contract) had been decreased while the prize money had been increased Furthermore, the difference between the prize money for the GP and the prize money for Campbell's might not mean that much to Kwan and Cohen (who have endorsement money), it wil mean a lot to Jenny, Kimmie, Johnny, Evan, and all the other skaters who don't get endorsements. I think the real issue for Kwan and Cohen is that the GPF is so close to Nats; but skating is too expensive a sport for money not to mean a lot to the others.

I agree with Joesitz that Michelle knows what is best for herself, but I don't think it is limited to "money or medals". I think she might be seeing her last Olys the way Todd Eldredge and Elvis Stojko saw SLC -- a good way to end a long and successful career, even if going in, you are at best a long shot for the bronze. If she wants this, she will skip the GP -- but if she wants to be a serious contender for gold, she has to do it.

 

[waxel]

If there is a December cheesefest, I hope they change it to an exhibition style format.

Totally disagree. I'd rather see a competition (even an invitational) than a mere exhibition any day. I am firmly planted in the "competition over show skating" category.

But speaking of appearance fees for skaters at cheesefests- remember the heat Nancy Kerrigan took back in the 90's skating heydays when (after she'd slopped out another crap program) announced "Who cares? We get paid anyway."

 

[Sylvia]

dr frog - I think what we are driving at is that Campbells and Marshalls are offering, I presume, contracts with big bucks for showing up. Nothing to do with the prize money.

But what dr. frog was saying (as I understand it) is that there are no longer "contracts with big bucks" for just showing up at the cheesefests -- it's just prize money now.

 

[Excidra2001]

Genuine question because i didn't see any GPS last year - how many 3/3s did Irina land last season - didn't she only land one at worlds (admittedly THE one but still...). Irina rarely shows up at the start of a season with her full jump arsenal - none of the skaters do except maybe pluschenko and he's coming back from surgery so i wouldn't expect him to be pulling off two quads and all his triples at the start of the season. It usually takes both Irina and Carolina about half the season to get warmed back into their jumps so i don't expect to see anything outstanding in the jumps department. Now the choreography and spins is a different story!

Ant

Irina landed the 3/3 about three times last season. She landed the 3sal/3loop/2toe at the official Russian skate test in early Sept. Then at Cup of Russia where she was competing against Arakawa, she landed a 3/3/2 and you seen the 3/3 she completed at worlds.
I totally agree with your post though.

 

[R.D.]

From my point of view she has not shown any motivation in winning competitions in the past two years other than the American judged US Nats. She will want to break that record this coming Nats, but will she if the CoP is used? Aside from the two time world silver medalist there is the arguably new favorite coming on the scene Ms. Meissner.

I don't believe she has the motivation that Irina (a more unhealthy and older competitor) has to win the Olympics. And as I said last season that I feared she would not make the podium. That still holds for the Olys.

Now, and I will say no more about this especially if she appears in Atlantic City and goes on to China. That will prove to me that she is motivated. Even if she doesn't win the comps, she will change my mind about the Olys.

For once, ITA with you. The only thing I would say differently is that the judges will find some way to make Kwan win unless she is clearly beaten, IMO. I'm all but convinced it will happen. It's still US Nats.

 

[Mathman]

But what dr. frog was saying (as I understand it) is that there are no longer "contracts with big bucks" for just showing up at the cheesefests -- it's just prize money now.

I think what was not completely clear -- at least to me -- is whether the skaters, in addition, have an independent deal with the sponsors -- money that comes directly from Campbell's Soup or Marshall's Department Stores or ABC TV -- rather than being filtered through the USFSA.

MM

 

[bdreampixie]

Doesn't Sasha (along with Peggy) have some kind of endorsement deal with Marshalls?

I think it began in 2004, but I'm not sure if Sasha still has that contract going.

I imagine she does, why else would she compete at the last cheesefest with a groin injury.

 

[Eeyora]

Why must they even hold a winter cheesefest? I guess it's all about the $$$.

 

[attyfan]

I think what was not completely clear -- at least to me -- is whether the skaters, in addition, have an independent deal with the sponsors -- money that comes directly from Campbell's Soup or Marshall's Department Stores or ABC TV -- rather than being filtered through the USFSA.

MM

I would be very surprised if the skaters had independent "deals" with the sponsors that bypassed the USFSA -- if for no other reason, the USFSA would want their cut. For example, Sasha's "deal" with Marshall's was part and parcel of their sponsorship of cheesefests; the USFSA was involved in their "Skate with Sasha" contest. When the deal is truly independent (i.e., Sasha and Citizen's watches or Michelle and East-West bank), competitions are not involved -- because the USFSA isn't getting a cut. In other words -- Eeyora has it right.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Why must they even hold a winter cheesefest? I guess it's all about the $$$.

Yes, what is the point? It's nice for fans of American skaters but it has little to do with a real competition. for the life of me, I can not remember last years contest? And at that time of the year, there will be plenty of holiday extravanzas with everyone doing their double axels and flyin camels, and fluff pieces givin the fans holiday greetings.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

The point is so us Detroiters can go and see it. What's the point of any skating show or contest?

Joe, how can you have forgotten the excitement and drama of last year's December event? In ladies, Slutskaya soundly thrashed Kwan, serving notice as to what was to come the rest of the season. Jenny Kirk skated beautifully, but -- much to the displeasure of the audience -- was placed below a weak performance by Sasha, who was recovering from injury. Alissa Czysny was a last minute substitution and acquited herself admirably, plus it was probably the last time I will get to see Angela Nikodinov skate

But the real action was in the men. Evan Lysacek skated first. It was our first inkling that this boy was going places this year. Then he had to stand off the challenge as one after another tried to catch him -- Joubert, no. Weir, no. Jahnke, no. Griazev, no.

Last to skate: Plushenko!!!!! Yes!!!!!!!!!! Silver for Lysacek. Great competition.

Mathman

 

[R.D.]

Jenny Kirk skated beautifully, but -- much to the displeasure of the audience -- was placed below a weak performance by Sasha, who was recovering from injury.

Yeah, to this day I still think Kirk should have been 3rd, and Cohen 4th. I mean, she was pretty bad.

 

[Mathman]

Another point of interest in the December Marshall's last year was this. It was our only chance before Nationals to see how Michelle was coming with Bolero. Unfortunately, not much progress.

But anyway all of those things made that Invitational interesting to me, whereas for the Grand Prix telecasts on ESPN, I couldn't stay awake throught them. Not that they were boring (although they kind of were becasue I knew who won three weeks before), but because they were shown too late at night.

MM