Can ISU official say this?

[100yen]

If flexibility is your only criteria, than yes, Mao's spiral is better than YuNa's.

That is one of the major components of the spiral. Mao's may not be as fast or "stable" (not really sure what you mean by that because Mao barely wobbles at all during her spirals), but that is because it involves more balance and concentration on the skater's part. Mao's positions are much more difficult and are really what the heart of a spiral is supposed to be. It's like a jump...sure it can have speed and stability, but if the position is terrible it's not the same as a quality jump.

 

[bekalc]

That is one of the major components of the spiral. Mao's may not be as fast or "stable" (not really sure what you mean by that because Mao barely wobbles at all during her spirals), but that is because it involves more balance and concentration on the skater's part. Mao's positions are much more difficult and are really what the heart of a spiral is supposed to be. It's like a jump...sure it can have speed and stability, but if the position is terrible it's not the same as a quality jump.

The rules state that the position is suppose to be above the hip. A lot about the spiral is suppose to be about the edge and the speed.

 

[Mafke]

The rules state that the position is suppose to be above the hip. A lot about the spiral is suppose to be about the edge and the speed.

The word 'spiral' refers to the tracing that a good spiral position creates when held.

 

[gourry]

The word 'spiral' refers to the tracing that a good spiral position creates when held.

I thought it's more about the tracing that a good 'edge' creates when held and changed well.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There is a difference between nitpicking and judging the whole package. That is the message the man is explaining. Is he a judge? We need more judgemental explanations about skating, and less about gold medals, imo.

 

[Wrlmy]

^ That's how I understand it. Spiral refers to the pattern/tracing a blade leaves on the ice.

 

[bekalc]

The word 'spiral' refers to the tracing that a good spiral position creates when held.

Well exactly, but not necessarily about how flexible you are.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Is the word 'flexible' a part of the skating vocabulary as it is in Acrobatics?

Whatever a good looking spiral with knee turned out and toe pointed suits me, if there is a discernible edge tracing on the ice and not just a flat edged spiral in front of the Judges with free leg hitting the ceiling.

AND

Absolutely no wobbling and hold the change of edge before grabbing onto that circus like grab foot.

 

[Dipyramidal]

oh so if kim yu na has a SPEEDY spiral, but has a horrible stretch, would you award her with a 2.00 GOE? her stretch is far from good. If you have a wonderful positioned spiral, but little speeed, would you score it under a speedy, bad positioned one????????? How come I don't see other skaters with extreme speed on spirals not recieve amazing GOE? thought so.

 

[Wrlmy]

oh so if kim yu na has a SPEEDY spiral, but has a horrible stretch, would you award her with a 2.00 GOE? her stretch is far from good. If you have a wonderful positioned spiral, but little speeed, would you score it under a speedy, bad positioned one????????? How come I don't see other skaters with extreme speed on spirals not recieve amazing GOE? thought so.

Think of it this way, just for some peace in your mind.
There are largely three elements in spiral: position, COE and overall edging, and speed. Yuna excels at two of the three aforementioned elements, so she's awarded +2. If she had excellent position as well, she'd be getting +3.

Based on the reports of the people who attended the event, Mao has excellent position, not-so-good speed, and decent edging. She should be getting somewhere between +1 and +2, and she did.

 

[gourry]

oh so if kim yu na has a SPEEDY spiral, but has a horrible stretch, would you award her with a 2.00 GOE? her stretch is far from good. If you have a wonderful positioned spiral, but little speeed, would you score it under a speedy, bad positioned one????????? How come I don't see other skaters with extreme speed on spirals not recieve amazing GOE? thought so.

I doubt this is gonna change your point of view since you are so determined Yuna's spiral is horrible but I'll try one more time-and for last time.

These are the ISU guidelines for GOE. (from Communication No. 1505)

FOR + 1 : 1 or 2 bullets FOR + 2 : 3 or 4 bullets FOR + 3 : 5 or 6 bullets
Spiral Sequences
1. good flow, energy and execution
2. good speed during sequence
3. good body line
4. highlights the character of the program
5. superior flexibility
6. creativity and originality

In 1 and 2, she is undeniably one of the best.
It certainly highlights the music.
Since Yuna has horrible stretch according to you, and in fact Yuna is not superior to Caroline in terms of flexibility so I'll leave 5 out. But I don't think Caroline is their standard. There are tons of less flexible skaters out there if you see the whole competition. So it is also possible the judges checked this. I don't know.
I'm not so sure what they mean with body line actually. To me, Yuna's body line is just fabulous though. If you really hate Yuna's body line, you can leave 3 out.
During her first position(is it arabesque position? not sure the name), she looks upward by changing head direction. Did judges find it creative? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.
Still it is enough for +2.
If Yuna stretchs her legs a bit more and points her toes, she'll get +3.

 

[antmanb]

That is one of the major components of the spiral. Mao's may not be as fast or "stable" (not really sure what you mean by that because Mao barely wobbles at all during her spirals), but that is because it involves more balance and concentration on the skater's part. Mao's positions are much more difficult and are really what the heart of a spiral is supposed to be. It's like a jump...sure it can have speed and stability, but if the position is terrible it's not the same as a quality jump.

I'm sorry but this is just completely incorrect - the most important part of a spiral is what is going on with the blade, it is edge control, depth of edge speed covered and security of edge (the audience may eat up the positions but that doesn't make it teh most important component). The requirement for a spiral position is having the free leg higher than the hip that is all. Off course you get props for having more difficult positions than a standard free foot just above hip height but if it compromises the quality of the edge then that something for the skater to try to trade off.

Honestly I don't think much to COP spiral since all but one position the skaters use involve holding their free leg up with their hands. I don't think many of them are capable of the kind of spirals Bobek could do.

Ant

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

oh so if kim yu na has a SPEEDY spiral, but has a horrible stretch, would you award her with a 2.00 GOE? her stretch is far from good. If you have a wonderful positioned spiral, but little speeed, would you score it under a speedy, bad positioned one????????? How come I don't see other skaters with extreme speed on spirals not recieve amazing GOE? thought so.

To be honest, I am not the best at the difference between a +1 and a +2 even when the difference is described as regulations. I use my own common sense to discern which are the correct spirals. Uncorrect Spirals, for me are lucky to get a base value.

 

[Mathman]

I thought it's more about the tracing that a good 'edge' creates when held and changed well.

The most spiraly spiral I ever saw was in Michelle's Kwan's Fields of Gold exhibition number. She spiraled all the way in to the very center, then toughed her hand down and spun away.

Then there wqas her spiral sequence in her East of Eden exhibition (as performed, for instance, at the 1998 World Pro). She did a COE forward spiral, then without touching her other foot down, she switched around to a back COE spiral, then finished off with a lttle curlicue, all on one foot.

 

[Simone]

They officially said it didn't they?

 

[Dipyramidal]

i guess yu na kim shouldn't imrpove her spiral because it is so good! with 2.00 goe and lvl 4 ))). No point in trying to improve her position when the judges think its perfect =)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Yu Na, and I do think she is a great competitor needs to turn the knees out and point those toes not just in spirals but in overall skating. The Attitude position in her layback does need a lot of work. Someone tell her to look at Nikidinov's on tape.

 

[Medusa]

Yu Na, and I do think she is a great competitor needs to turn the knees out and point those toes not just in spirals but in overall skating. The Attitude position in her layback does need a lot of work. Someone tell her to look at Nikidinov's on tape.

I second that.

Do you think that the judges should consider these points?

Another thing I noted is that Yu-Na is basically hunched over throughout the entire footwork sequences, her back isn't straight once during the SP footwork. I think it is especially noticeable since Asada and Rochette are her closest rivals and have impeccable posture. If only Ando was her closest rival nobody would notice that I think.

 

[Dipyramidal]

I second that.

Do you think that the judges should consider these points?

Another thing I noted is that Yu-Na is basically hunched over throughout the entire footwork sequences, her back isn't straight once during the SP footwork. I think it is especially noticeable since Asada and Rochette are her closest rivals and have impeccable posture. If only Ando was her closest rival nobody would notice that I think.

Now that i've saw yuna's peformance again, i noticed what your talking about, Medusa. She needs to improve on her flexibility . Her spin position aren't the best or the worst. 3s and 3l needs to be more consisent. but her flip, lutz, and toe are go

 

[yelyoh]

Yu Na, and I do think she is a great competitor needs to turn the knees out and point those toes not just in spirals but in overall skating. The Attitude position in her layback does need a lot of work. Someone tell her to look at Nikidinov's on tape.

Angela had a perfect layback. It is so much harder to do a layback in the Attitude position because you have to make sure your hip doesn't rise and open up to cheat for the position. To do that takes a lot of strength and control. Same as in dance. AN's Attitude position was perfect and the spin was centered and the momentum consistent. Letting the foot just dangle there is unattractive and much less challenging.