Coaching team approaches/workload

[SnowWhite]

Eteri's is not the biggest group by any means.

Gadbois has a bigger group, as does TCC, and Canton, MI as well. There's also Raf's team in California.

She's definitely up there if you consider her younger students. She has several new girls who will be 15 for 2022, for example. But then, some of the other coaches may have younger students that I'm not aware of.

And I thought the Canton group had gotten rather small by now. The only ones I can think of atm (not counting the Shibs) are Lewis/Bye, Muramoto/Reed and Reed/Ambrulevicius. Who am I missing at Canton?

As far as I know, Eteri (and her team of coaches) currently has 23 students (a couple others are rumoured too):

Seniors (4)
- Alina Zagitova (2002)
- Daria Panenkova (2002)
- Moris Kvitelashvili (1995) - GEO
- Alexey Erokhov (1999)

Juniors (7)
- Alena Kostornaya (2003)
- Anastasiia Tarakanova (2004)
- Alexandra Trusova (2004)
- Anna Shcherbakova (2004)
- Artem Frolov (Feb 2003)
- Egor Rukhin (April 2004)
- Nika Egadze (2002) - GEO

Younger girls (6)
- Kamila Valieva (April 2006)
- Maya Khromykh (May 2006)
- Daria Usacheva (2006) ** I'm not sure she's confirmed
- Sofia Akatieva (July 2007)
- Sofia Titova (2008)
- Veronika Zhilina (May 2008)

Younger boys (5)
- Maximillian Ermolin (March 2005)
- Daniil Samsonov (July 2005)
- Mark Lukin (Nov 2007)
- Arseniy Fedotov (2009)
- Nikolai Kolesnikov (2009)

As far as I know Gadbois has 18 teams (plus a few students on IPS), some of who only train their part-time. There may be others I don't know/moves not yet confirmed. I'm not counting V/M since they seem done.

- CAN: Soucisse/Firus, Fournier Beaudry/Sorenson, Lajoie/Lagha, Fisher/Malette-Paquette, Bronsard/Bouaraguia
- FRA: Papadakis/Cizeron, Lauriault/Le Gac
- ESP: Smart/Diaz
- USA: Hubbell/Donohue, Chock/Bates, Hawayek/Baker
- JPN: Fukase/Tateno, Komatsubara/Koleto
- BUL: Markova/Daze
- GBR: Fear/Gibson, Fear/Waddell (part time - Romain)
- CHN: Wang/Liu, Hong Chen/Yan Zhao (part-time?)

The whole TCC team (but again, might be missing some) that I know of is 20 skaters/team (counting Javi and a couple of boys in dance and singles twice)s:

Men
- Yuzuru Hanyu (JPN)
- Boyang Jin (CHN)
- Jason Brown (USA)
- Cha Jun-hwan (KOR)
- Stephen Gogolev (CAN)
- Shingo Nishiyama (JPN)
- Javier Raya (ESP)
- Corey Circelli (CAN)
- Conrad Orzel (CAN)
- Bruce Waddell (CAN)
- Lilian Binzari (MDA)
- Javier Fernandez (ESP) **Semi-retired??

Ladies
- Evgenia Medvedeva (RUS)
- Gabrielle Daleman (CAN)
- Elizabet Tursynbaeva (KAZ)
ETA:
- Alison Schumacher (CAN)
- Kristina Ivanova (RUS)
- Kylie Tait (CAN)

Ice Dance Teams
- D’Alessandro/Waddell (CAN)
- McIsaac/Circelli (CAN)

 

[el henry]

This is what I have been trying to make the point of here since the announcement was made that Jason was going to TCC. But others (not you Mrs. P) want to keep spewing an article that I also read. Jason is going to fall into the same grouping as many of Brian's students he may be mainly overseen by Lee and Karen and then also have time with Brian and Tracy. I know how things work at different training facilities and that is all I was stating. I'm glad that what TGee and Krunchii stated backs that up.

Of course Jason “may” be in a grouping overseen by anyone at the Cricket Club. But there has been no decision made that he *will* fall into any particular grouping, and nothing anyone has posted and nothing that has been published supports that he will fall into such a grouping. To say that the decision has been made that he will be overseen primarily by Lee and Karen is as misleading as to say that Brian will oversee his every skate.

None of us knows.

But my suggestion would be to actually leave the subject and see what happens when the season starts. Whether I am right or wrong on an Internet forum doesn’t make any difference in the long run, certainly not to me what makes a difference is how Jason responds. And I think we are all hoping for the best.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

According to TSL, Tursynbaeva is leaving, so that may lighten up with workload for TCC. Then again, they also suggested that she's going into pairs... :scratch3:

She’s been seen sending quads in practice so.....side by side quads?

 

[narcissa]

As for sponsorships, I consider that to be money coming from the athlete's pocket. They've earned the money in addition to whatever they get from their federation.

Many times, athletes have sponsorship deals that include training costs, but it doesn't mean that if they stopped training, they would get to pocket that. Usually the sponsorship includes a salary as well that can be pocketed to do whatever the athlete wants.

Yuzu, AFAIK, has a deal with ANA that includes training costs, travel costs, and a couple full time staff (including his mom). He also gets a salary.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

She's definitely up there if you consider her younger students. She has several new girls who will be 15 for 2022, for example. But then, some of the other coaches may have younger students that I'm not aware of.

And I thought the Canton group had gotten rather small by now. The only ones I can think of atm (not counting the Shibs) are Lewis/Bye, Muramoto/Reed and Reed/Ambrulevicius. Who am I missing at Canton?

As far as I know, Eteri (and her team of coaches) currently has 23 students (a couple others are rumoured too):

Seniors (4)
- Alina Zagitova (2002)
- Daria Panenkova (2002)
- Moris Kvitelashvili (1995) - GEO
- Alexey Erokhov (1999)

Juniors (7)
- Alena Kostornaya (2003)
- Anastasiia Tarakanova (2004)
- Alexandra Trusova (2004)
- Anna Shcherbakova (2004)
- Artem Frolov (Feb 2003)
- Egor Rukhin (April 2004)
- Nika Egadze (2002) - GEO

Younger girls (6)
- Kamila Valieva (April 2006)
- Maya Khromykh (May 2006)
- Daria Usacheva (2006) ** I'm not sure she's confirmed
- Sofia Akatieva (July 2007)
- Sofia Titova (2008)
- Veronika Zhilina (May 2008)

Younger boys (5)
- Maximillian Ermolin (March 2005)
- Daniil Samsonov (July 2005)
- Mark Lukin (Nov 2007)
- Arseniy Fedotov (2009)
- Nikolai Kolesnikov (2009)

As far as I know Gadbois has 18 teams (plus a few students on IPS), some of who only train their part-time. There may be others I don't know/moves not yet confirmed. I'm not counting V/M since they seem done.

- CAN: Soucisse/Firus, Fournier Beaudry/Sorenson, Lajoie/Lagha, Fisher/Malette-Paquette, Bronsard/Bouaraguia
- FRA: Papadakis/Cizeron, Lauriault/Le Gac
- ESP: Smart/Diaz
- USA: Hubbell/Donohue, Chock/Bates, Hawayek/Baker
- JPN: Fukase/Tateno, Komatsubara/Koleto
- BUL: Markova/Daze
- GBR: Fear/Gibson, Fear/Waddell (part time - Romain)
- CHN: Wang/Liu, Hong Chen/Yan Zhao (part-time?)

The whole TCC team (but again, might be missing some) that I know of is 17 skaters/teams:

Men
- Yuzuru Hanyu (JPN)
- Boyang Jin (CHN)
- Jason Brown (USA)
- Cha Jun-hwan (KOR)
- Stephen Gogolev (CAN)
- Shingo Nishiyama (JPN)
- Javier Raya (ESP)
- Corey Circelli (CAN)
- Conrad Orzel (CAN)
- Lilian Binzari (MDA)
- Javier Fernandez (ESP) **Semi-retired??

Ladies
- Evgenia Medvedeva (RUS)
- Gabrielle Daleman (CAN)
- Elizabet Tursynbaeva (KAZ)
- Sonia Lafuente (ESP) **Is she still there?

Ice Dance Teams
- D’Alessandro/Waddell (CAN)
- McIsaac/Circelli (CAN)

I was talking about the number of coaches and co-coaches, choreographers and support staff that are in each training site/team. Not the skaters themselves.


ETA: But thank you for the nice extensive list. That took alot of work and it's appreciated.

 

[4everchan]

Of course Jason “may” be in a grouping overseen by anyone at the Cricket Club. But there has been no decision made that he *will* fall into any particular grouping, and nothing anyone has posted and nothing that has been published supports that he will fall into such a grouping. To say that the decision has been made that he will be overseen primarily by Lee and Karen is as misleading as to say that Brian will oversee his every skate.

None of us knows.

But my suggestion would be to actually leave the subject and see what happens when the season starts. Whether I am right or wrong on an Internet forum doesn’t make any difference in the long run, certainly not to me what makes a difference is how Jason responds. And I think we are all hoping for the best.

I am not sure why this discussion.... Brian has mentioned it was a team effort... and that's all... the rest is between them... BTW it's always a team effort.... consider the choreo, the physio, the sports psychologist, the dance trainer, etc.... IT IS ALWAYS like that.... but when the coach is as famous as Brian Orser, people imagine things...

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I am not sure why this discussion.... Brian has mentioned it was a team effort... and that's all... the rest is between them... BTW it's always a team effort.... consider the choreo, the physio, the sports psychologist, the dance trainer, etc.... IT IS ALWAYS like that.... but when the coach is as famous as Brian Orser, people imagine things...

:agree:

 

[el henry]

I am not sure why this discussion.... Brian has mentioned it was a team effort... and that's all... the rest is between them... BTW it's always a team effort.... consider the choreo, the physio, the sports psychologist, the dance trainer, etc.... IT IS ALWAYS like that.... but when the coach is as famous as Brian Orser, people imagine things...

Now that I have interested myself in Brian’s operation, for obvious reasons

But I could not agree more. No skating club is ever one person I know Jason, Brian and the team will figure out what’s best for Jason, whether that be Tracy, Lee, Ghislain, Karen, or the guy driving the Zamboni, or some combination thereof. And even when the course is determined, nothing is ever set in stone.

Other than that the guy driving the Zamboni is the most important guy in the rink.

 

[Mango]

post

You can add Alison Schumacher to the ladies list and take out Sonia Lafuente. She's back in Spain.

Bruce Waddell is still skating singles.

There's also Kristina Ivanonva and Kylie Tait in ladies.

Zachary Daleman may also be there, but as he was doing pairs and his partnership dissolved I'm not sure if he's found someone else.

Bradon Toste is with CC as well because of Karen Preston.

 

[SnowWhite]

I was talking about the number of coaches and co-coaches, choreographers and support staff that are in each training site/team. Not the skaters themselves.


ETA: But thank you for the nice extensive list. That took alot of work and it's appreciated.

Oh that makes sense. I just assumed Spirals meant students. But you're right about staff, which is also interesting (and makes sense given the thread topic).

And I like making lists

 

[4everchan]

Now that I have interested myself in Brian’s operation, for obvious reasons

But I could not agree more. No skating club is ever one person I know Jason, Brian and the team will figure out what’s best for Jason, whether that be Tracy, Lee, Ghislain, Karen, or the guy driving the Zamboni, or some combination thereof. And even when the course is determined, nothing is ever set in stone.

Other than that the guy driving the Zamboni is the most important guy in the rink.

you should look up people like Karen Preston further more... her coach : Ellen Burka... who coached... your favourite Toller.... Karen skated extremely well at the 1992 olympics, skating a clean LP going from 12 to 8 in 6.0 era.... and on top of that, she wasn't as known as others... both her SP and LP marks were booed by the audience as they were very low. She had very strong and consistent jumps. Here is a documentary + her Olympic LP

 

[yude]

Based on what TGee states (thanks, btw), then it sounds like the situation at TCC is pretty fluid and the coaching arrangements may be adjusted and tweaked over time.

There really isn’t any shame if Jason works with Lee Barkell more than the others if that is how it ends up working out. He coached Nobunari Oda, who is one of Jason’s favorite skaters. And Nobu is still slaying quad toes in shows at age 31, so whatever he got from Lee was pretty good.

I bought Oda's book published in March this year, he won Junior Worlds when he was coached by Lee Barkell. He trained from Monday to Friday with Lee, and practiced in Toronto on weekends, he really liked the environment especially many ice rinks (because it is not like that in Japan). He said it was very important at that time for him to leave his mother who had been teaching him all his life. And when he came back to Japan, many people told him "you are like a different person!" and he felt it was worth going to Canada.

 

[el henry]

you should look up people like Karen Preston further more... her coach : Ellen Burka... who coached... your favourite Toller.... Karen skated extremely well at the 1992 olympics, skating a clean LP going from 12 to 8 in 6.0 era.... and on top of that, she wasn't as known as others... both her SP and LP marks were booed by the audience as they were very low. She had very strong and consistent jumps. Here is a documentary + her Olympic LP

You mean Mrs. Burka coached skaters other than Toller; say it isn’t so (jk of course). I will check that out:agree:

 

[SnowWhite]

Eteri's is not the biggest group by any means.

Gadbois has a bigger group, as does TCC, and Canton, MI as well. There's also Raf's team in California.

You can add Alison Schumacher to the ladies list and take out Sonia Lafuente. She's back in Spain.

Bruce Waddell is still skating singles.

There's also Kristina Ivanonva and Kylie Tait in ladies.

Zachary Daleman may also be there, but as he was doing pairs and his partnership dissolved I'm not sure if he's found someone else.

Bradon Toste is with CC as well because of Karen Preston.

Is he? She also coaches at Canadian Ice Academy, according to her Wiki, which is where I thought McIntosh/Toste trained. Or is he still doing singles too and doing that at TCC?

 

[4everchan]

You mean Mrs. Burka coached skaters other than Toller; say it isn’t so (jk of course). I will check that out:agree:

she even coached Patrick Chan... maybe that will help you warm up to him

 

[Mango]

Is he? She also coaches at Canadian Ice Academy, according to her Wiki, which is where I thought McIntosh/Toste trained. Or is he still doing singles too and doing that at TCC?

McIntosh/Toste do train at CIA but they also do singles skating (at the novice level iirc). Officially as a pair Brooke reps CIA and Brandon reps CC. I know Brandon's there for training because he's usually in group shots. BB also performed at the CC ice show.

 

[ice coverage]

Given that May 29 was Jason's first day at TCC, seems a tad premature (IMO) for anyone -- including the TCC coaches themselves -- to know for sure the specifics of the team approach that will work best for Jason and for them.

---

I would hope that once an elite skater has reached adulthood and is from a federation that allows them the freedom to choose their coach that, if the skater felt that they were not receiving enough attention or that they were low in the pecking order, they would seek other coaching options. I imagine that Raf has the same fees for Mariah and Nathan - and if Mariah is paying the same as Nathan and receiving significantly less in day-to-day training, you'd think she'd be ticked off and want to go elsewhere. ...

:agree: Agree with your point in general.

And regarding Mariah in particular, I have never understood the assumption by some that she has been shortchanged by Raf.
Mariah seems excited about going forward with him, which suggests to me that she is not upset about the coaching and attention that she is receiving.

---

… Other than that the guy driving the Zamboni is the most important guy in the rink.

I hope that you meant to say that the Zamboni driver (whether female or male) is the most important person in the rink.

(As an example of a different ilk, Kelly Rippon learned to drive the Zamboni so that young Adam could train at all hours. Just one of the reasons that I admire Adam's mother.)

 

[NanaPat]

A lot of people use "guy" as non-gender-specific. I know I do, and I'm from a generation that had "guys" and "gals". I'd much rather be called a guy than a gal!

 

[ice coverage]

For me:

"You guys" is not gender-specific. A reference to at least two people -- of any gender.

But "guy" (singular) refers to a male.
"What a guy" refers to a male.
Suppose I were reporting a crime to the police, and I said, "I saw a guy running away from the bank." I would mean that I saw a male running away from the bank. (And "a bunch of guys running away from the bank" would mean a bunch of males.)

I obviously know of the words "gal" and "gals" -- and I am old enough that some of my generation probably use them non-ironically, but I myself do not. (If I ever were to use them, it would be only with irony.)
I also do not use the expression "what a gal"; if I am referring to a female, I just use other words to convey the same positive meaning.

If anything, "girls" is the opposite of "guys." For example, an evening social gathering only for females is "girls night out"; only for males is "guys night out" or "boys night out."​

Again, all of the above is under the heading of "for me." YMMV.

---

ETA:

As I think about this more, also for me:

"Nice guy," "fall guy," "good guy," "bad guy" possibly could refer to a female, depending on the usage.
e.g., "She tried to be a nice guy, but her neighbors sued her anyway." "Her boyfriend acted innocent and let her be the fall guy." "I'm surprised that you don't like her; I think she's a good guy." (Although I would be more likely to say, "I think she's one of the good guys.") "Don't trust her; she's a bad guy."
Interestingly, I would not say, "she's a great guy" -- even if I think "she" is a great person.

I still cannot think of a context in which I would use simply "guy" -- without any preceding adjective/modifier -- as a reference that is not gender-specific [ETA: I have fixed my earlier accidental garbling of what I intended to say here.]
If I say, "The guy driving the Zamboni," I mean a male driving the Zamboni.

But yes, I suppose that "important guy" could refer to a female. "She's the most important guy on the committee."​

Again, all of the above is under the heading of "for me." YMMV.​

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Oh that makes sense. I just assumed Spirals meant students. But you're right about staff, which is also interesting (and makes sense given the thread topic).

And I like making lists

You're right, I did
And it would seem like this 23-25 seems to be about the max I've seen anywhere