- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
She will be given a bye to nationals. her only problem will be medaling there.
Cohen Still Considering 2010 Games.......
- Thread starter Geesesk8
- Start date
Worlds next month won't determine how many US ladies will go to Olys. Worlds next month determines how many ladies go to Worlds in Los Angeles -- 2009-- and it is the Worlds in '09 that will determine how many ladies go to Olys in 2010.
For worlds in '09, all the young'uns (Caroline, Mirai, etc.) will be age eligible.
My reference to injury byes was not that Kwan or Cohen might get one, but instead, it is the possiblity that, even if they medal at US Nats in 2010, they still might not go to Olys if one of the skaters whose placement at the 2009 Worlds secured spaces for US ladies at Olys should need such a bye.
The USFS has shown itself very generous with injury byes when the skater who needs one was critical in securing places (for example, Todd's World medal in '91 got the US three men's places for '92 Olys that they would not have had without him; Todd got an injury bye; Michelle's 4th place at Worlds in '05, when combined with Sasha's silver, secured 3 spots for US ladies at Torino that the US probably would not have gotten absent Michelle); she got an injury bye.) So, if Caroline and MIrai (for example) place well enough at 2009 Worlds to secure spots for 3 US ladies at Olys, and, one needs an injury bye, then I think they will get one.
With all due respect to Sasha Cohen, I would like to dispute this statement. I think Sasha has amazing potential to be a great show skater, but so far she is far from reaching it! I have seen many of her show skates and though her investment in the music is undeniable and her connection to the audience palpable, the choreography is simplistic! Furthermore, she skimps on footwork, drama, stroking, jumps, and prefers to show off her flexibility to the detriment of other aspects of skating. I haven't even mentioned the jumps, that's a whole other story, but certainly not an inspiring one.
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- Jul 11, 2003
For me, Sasha has always been a very musical skater and could knock off the three required jumps always in a Short Program. But for whatever reasons (I do not have the answers) Sasha had troulbe sustaining the Long Program. Even her exhibition numbers, short as they were, had to be the most brilliantly skated.
In choosing the Olympic Team, the USFS has to consider each skater individually as to their capabilities. Technical Scores are a must, and a 6 jump program would be required in the Long Program for appointing one to the Team. Stamina should also be considered with a view for bonus points. The competition will be keen in 2010.
As much as I'd like to see Sasha skate again, I just don't see her in the podium mix at the Olys, because of a bye. I would want to see her skate at Nationals first, and let the chips fall as they may.
Joe
In choosing the Olympic Team, the USFS has to consider each skater individually as to their capabilities. Technical Scores are a must, and a 6 jump program would be required in the Long Program for appointing one to the Team. Stamina should also be considered with a view for bonus points. The competition will be keen in 2010.
As much as I'd like to see Sasha skate again, I just don't see her in the podium mix at the Olys, because of a bye. I would want to see her skate at Nationals first, and let the chips fall as they may.
Joe
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
I had never thought of that angle. I always figured that Todd and Michelle got the nod because USFS figured they had the best shot at an Olympic medal, rather than as a reward for past services.
seriously all,
Nothing new here. Just talk. Still don't buy the notion of her so-called "comeback" - I mean, look at the dramatic fall that compatriot Kimmie took the past two years. US skating is in a transition right now from the Kwan/Cohen and Meissner/Hughes era to the next era where a whole new lot of skaters will dominate. Just take a look at this year's US nationals. They all came at once! Cohen does NOT stand a chance now...of course, she could come back "just for the heck of it" but why? she already has Nats Gold, World Silver and Olympic Silver. I like where she is now, and I think she can grow. But if she can't land jumps even during a show tour, it will be the same old same old story for her. She had her chance in the spotlight once Kwan left in 06 but coincidentally (or not?) chose to leave at the same time. Now that the spotlight is on Nagasu, Zhang and the up-and-comers, she can't grab it back. Even Meissner is being called old and gone (but it's up to her to prove them wrong and she hasn't).
Nothing new here. Just talk. Still don't buy the notion of her so-called "comeback" - I mean, look at the dramatic fall that compatriot Kimmie took the past two years. US skating is in a transition right now from the Kwan/Cohen and Meissner/Hughes era to the next era where a whole new lot of skaters will dominate. Just take a look at this year's US nationals. They all came at once! Cohen does NOT stand a chance now...of course, she could come back "just for the heck of it" but why? she already has Nats Gold, World Silver and Olympic Silver. I like where she is now, and I think she can grow. But if she can't land jumps even during a show tour, it will be the same old same old story for her. She had her chance in the spotlight once Kwan left in 06 but coincidentally (or not?) chose to leave at the same time. Now that the spotlight is on Nagasu, Zhang and the up-and-comers, she can't grab it back. Even Meissner is being called old and gone (but it's up to her to prove them wrong and she hasn't).
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
As a huge Sasha fan I have to agree with you.
Sasha the competitor put 100 percent into every note of the music and really performed it. Also her earlier exebitions, ""to love you more", "anytime anywhere (2001)", "hernado's hideaway" were all wonderful, creative, artistic masterpeices. Her SOI and other show programs have mostly been one spiral after another, with one or two simple jumps thrown in. Sasha has not taken advatange of the fact that without the rules and difficult jumps every other 20 seconds she could really skate too the music, but has ignored this opportunity. I just don't think she took the time to chreograph the programs well.
I love sasha, and it pains me to critcize her, but i have to agree with you!
I think it is the prior service that makes the USFS firgure they have the best shot at an Oly medal. After all, who is more likely to medal -- someone on the podium (or just off of it) at the previoius Worlds, or, someone who has never even been to Worlds before? The prior service is IMO, also the answer to the "but [insert name of medalist who doesn't go] earned it" cry. Since the spot in dispute was the work of the person getting a bye (based on the prior year), there is an argument that they, too, "earned it."
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
That's 1 too many jumping passes. The ladies are only allowed 7 jumping passes.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
I would not say that sasha "struggled with her jumps her entire career" at all. True, she usually had al least one mess up a LP, but the jumps she completed were all beautiful. Just because a skater never did a clean 3/3 ( and actually that one at worlds was clean) dosen't mean she struggled with jumps. Michelle never, if is she did just once land a clean 3/3 and nobody says that she was not a jumper. Sasha landed a quad and was capable of 3 lutz, 3 toe in practice, more than michelle ever was. Just because she cracked under the pressure of competition dosen't mean that she Struggled with the jumps!
Michelle actually landed her 3/3 cleanly in ten or eleven competitions -- and at least three of these were at the World championships. (This is very close to the number of times that Irina landed clean 3/3s.)
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- Jun 21, 2003
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- Oct 31, 2006
I've never seen Sasha land a true Lutz and she did struggle with consistency on the jumps. She's never done a clean LP in non-fluff competition. I don't see how anyone can possibly argue that fact. 
at "Sasha landed a quad." Yeah, IN PRACTICE! So what if Sasha Cohen did the quad Salchow in practice. Maria Butyrskaya landed 3Axels in practice. Michelle Kwan landed 3Lutz+3loop, 3Salchow+3loop, and 3loop+3loop in practice. What really counts is bringing it to competition ice. Michelle landed 11 3+3 combinations in competition and Sasha only landed 1.
at "Sasha landed a quad." Yeah, IN PRACTICE! So what if Sasha Cohen did the quad Salchow in practice. Maria Butyrskaya landed 3Axels in practice. Michelle Kwan landed 3Lutz+3loop, 3Salchow+3loop, and 3loop+3loop in practice. What really counts is bringing it to competition ice. Michelle landed 11 3+3 combinations in competition and Sasha only landed 1.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
I have always wondered if Sasha landed jumps consistently in practice, actually.
I think generally her problems in skating a clean LP, or 2 clean programs in one competition, were thought of as "mental" -- nerves or whatever. But I have heard it suggested on another forum, and find the idea compelling, that actually Sasha was pushing the edge of her abilities in competition.
That is to say, she had to plan a certain jump content to hope to be competitive, but perhaps she wasn't all that reliable on those jumps even in practice. Enough, perhaps, to try, or to continue to put out the image that that is what she was capable of doing, but not being able to do it with any reasonable degree of consistency. Much like skaters talk before a comp about doing their 3axel (for a woman) or their quad (for a man) or their x-y-z combo even when they don't usually or ever actually put those moves in a competition -- but it's a mind game to (attempt to) enhance their competitiveness.
BTW, I'm not saying she never landed the jumps, just that the percentage might not have been what other top tier skaters reach when they feel comfortable putting a jump into competition ...
ETA: I'd also bet that's why Sasha doesn't push herself in her show programs. She's not uncomfortable performing, being in front of an audience, etc. -- as long as she stays well within a comfort zone of her tech abilities.
I think generally her problems in skating a clean LP, or 2 clean programs in one competition, were thought of as "mental" -- nerves or whatever. But I have heard it suggested on another forum, and find the idea compelling, that actually Sasha was pushing the edge of her abilities in competition.
That is to say, she had to plan a certain jump content to hope to be competitive, but perhaps she wasn't all that reliable on those jumps even in practice. Enough, perhaps, to try, or to continue to put out the image that that is what she was capable of doing, but not being able to do it with any reasonable degree of consistency. Much like skaters talk before a comp about doing their 3axel (for a woman) or their quad (for a man) or their x-y-z combo even when they don't usually or ever actually put those moves in a competition -- but it's a mind game to (attempt to) enhance their competitiveness.
BTW, I'm not saying she never landed the jumps, just that the percentage might not have been what other top tier skaters reach when they feel comfortable putting a jump into competition ...
ETA: I'd also bet that's why Sasha doesn't push herself in her show programs. She's not uncomfortable performing, being in front of an audience, etc. -- as long as she stays well within a comfort zone of her tech abilities.
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Sasha and the 2010 Olys
I definitely think she should go! Go, and have a wonderful time commenting from the sidelines that is....
She is a wonderful silver-medalist, but I cannot imagine how she would compete at the Oly level again. I must admit, I was never a devotee of her skating, and to call her balletic, a true artist, feeling every note, is guilding the lily. Her musicality was very basic, and for me, she never developed her style past a certain point; she didn't grow artistically. That's ultimately ok, as figure skating is first a sport; I don't expect true art to show up in rinks around the country. Elegance and virtuosity, yes - art, no.
I guess there was a moment during the great Odette/Odile black/white Swan Lake program when she peaked for me choreographically and then I think she coasted on her extension and that damn I-spin ending every program. For me, she doesn't get the crown as the lady who pushed the boundaries of skating choreography out towards new territory. We now see everyone doing the ugly fan spiral (the fire hydrant! haha) and that ugly flat-footed I-spin. Fortunately, her legacy will not hinge on that one move.
I wish Sasha well - whatever she chooses to do. Acting.... not so sure that's her best route. She doesn't seem to have made much of an impact in the industry. Just my 2 cents.
I definitely think she should go! Go, and have a wonderful time commenting from the sidelines that is....
She is a wonderful silver-medalist, but I cannot imagine how she would compete at the Oly level again. I must admit, I was never a devotee of her skating, and to call her balletic, a true artist, feeling every note, is guilding the lily. Her musicality was very basic, and for me, she never developed her style past a certain point; she didn't grow artistically. That's ultimately ok, as figure skating is first a sport; I don't expect true art to show up in rinks around the country. Elegance and virtuosity, yes - art, no.
I guess there was a moment during the great Odette/Odile black/white Swan Lake program when she peaked for me choreographically and then I think she coasted on her extension and that damn I-spin ending every program. For me, she doesn't get the crown as the lady who pushed the boundaries of skating choreography out towards new territory. We now see everyone doing the ugly fan spiral (the fire hydrant! haha) and that ugly flat-footed I-spin. Fortunately, her legacy will not hinge on that one move.
I wish Sasha well - whatever she chooses to do. Acting.... not so sure that's her best route. She doesn't seem to have made much of an impact in the industry. Just my 2 cents.
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