COR ladies free

[ChrisH]

OOOHHHH. I see it your attacking Yu-na because your a Caroline fan..

Yu-na herself said that some of her jumps were shaky probably the loop, the last lutz, and the salcow.. But she looked pleased with her performance, and well all of her jumps underrotated... I think you need to ask yourself why your the only person who notices this underrotation..

So even after Yu-Na says her jumps were shaky, you refuse to see her underrotations. Add all her toe loop jumps to that list and one would be closer to the truth. C'mon, the signs are not that difficult to see. There's the loss of speed after most of those jumps, the "hooked landing characteristic", her lower than normal jump height and distance, no three jump combination, the balance check, the sprayed ice, the mixed audience reaction, Yu-Na's surprise at seeing her TES, and Yu-Na's statement "that some of her jumps were shaky". Right, being a Caroline fan washes that all away. You need to ask yourself why you think being a Caroline fan and a Yu-Na fan is mutually exclusive. And has anyone said that Nakano or Rochette should've won CoR? Of course not. However, the judges should be asking themselves if a shaky Yu-Na was really 24 points better than a clean Nakano. Of course she was not.

Anyway, it was interesting to see Rochette's triple-triple and 2A-2A sequences. Nakano desperately needs a triple-triple or at least a 2A-triple.

 

[slutskayafan21]

So even after Yu-Na says her jumps were shaky, you refuse to see her underrotations. Add all her toe loop jumps to that list and one would be closer to the truth. C'mon, the signs are not that difficult to see. There's the loss of speed after most of those jumps, the "hooked landing characteristic", her lower than normal jump height and distance, no three jump combination, the balance check, the sprayed ice, the mixed audience reaction, Yu-Na's surprise at seeing her TES, and Yu-Na's statement "that some of her jumps were shaky". Right, being a Caroline fan washes that all away. You need to ask yourself why you think being a Caroline fan and a Yu-Na fan is mutually exclusive. And has anyone said that Nakano or Rochette should've won CoR? Of course not. However, the judges should be asking themselves if a shaky Yu-Na was really 24 points better than a clean Nakano. Of course she was not.

Anyway, it was interesting to see Rochette's triple-triple and 2A-2A sequences. Nakano desperately needs a triple-triple or at least a 2A-triple.

Have you had lunch yet. A big bowl of sour grapes would suit you fine just now.

 

[zephyrskates]

Have you had lunch yet. A big bowl of sour grapes would suit you fine just now.

oh snap.

 

[GoldMedalist]

I feel for Joannie... Her total combined score with Skate Canada and Cup of Russia, is the fouth highest on the GP series this year, and will probably remain so.. She belongs in the GP final, but had the bad luck of having to face Yukari in both competitions.

Joannie really should have been in 2nd place at Skate Canada.

 

[ChrisH]

I think you're trying to make it so that each competition is scored the same way. While that might be ideal, we use different judges and different specialists for each event. As we saw with the really strict TS at SA and SC, versus the more lax one at TEB and COR. Scores will never be the same from competition to competition. Sure, skaters might score in the same range, but in the end, you can't really completely think that because a skater received a lower score meant they were worse than someone in another competition. Each performance is different. This performance of Kim's could be scored more than future, even better performances. We just never know.

It's not just judging between competitions, but also judging within the same competition. I seriously doubt the CoR audience agreed that Kim's shaky free skate was 42% better than Petushkova's clean 5 triple performance. My guess is that they left thinking that the judging was based more on reputation than actual performance.

 

[oleada]

If the audience was judging, it would not be a competition, it would be a popularity contest.

I think Yu-Na's jumps are underrotated only in your head.

 

[Wrlmy]

It's not just judging between competitions, but also judging within the same competition. I seriously doubt the CoR audience agreed that Kim's shaky free skate was 42% better than Petushkova's clean 5 triple performance. My guess is that they left thinking that the judging was based more on reputation than actual performance.

hmm..... Consult to Tarasova? She's Russian

 

[fumie_fumie]

Yan Liu

I suspect someone might have asked the same question.

Why did Yan Liu rank so low? I understand she is not known for her speed. However, her LP marks seem a bit low to me for a half decent, clean program.

 

[bekalc]

It's not just judging between competitions, but also judging within the same competition. I seriously doubt the CoR audience agreed that Kim's shaky free skate was 42% better than Petushkova's clean 5 triple performance. My guess is that they left thinking that the judging was based more on reputation than actual performance.

So now your arguing that Petushkova skated better than Kim...And the audience gave Kim a partial standing ovation, so I'm not sure what your talking about.

Also Chris, reports are that afterwards Tarasova spent the whole Zamobdia time gushing about Yu-na Kim and Joannie Rochette.

 

[feraina]

Actually, I wanted to ask that question myself. Why is Yan Liu scored so low? She had 5 clean triples (some combos), decent spins (good for a Chinese skater!) -- not very difficulty transitions or choreography, it's true, -- but the music was nice and the skating went well with it, and she has good posture, musicality, body line, and soft knees. I mean, all in all, didn't she at least deserve 5.0 for most of the PCS's, and therefore a few places higher than 9th?! :disapp:

Has skating become a speed race? It seems that speed has become one of the most dominating factors in the PCS. Since when is "presentation" so hugely dependent on speed? Back in the days, Michelle Kwan was rarely faster than Irina Slutskaya, and yet she consistently got higher presentation scores -- if they're scored under the current PCS system, I believe Slutskaya would beat her every single time if they both skate clean! :scratch:

 

[slutskayafan21]

Back in the days, Michelle Kwan was rarely faster than Irina Slutskaya, and yet she consistently got higher presentation scores -- if they're scored under the current PCS system, I believe Slutskaya would beat her every single time if they both skate clean! :scratch:

Those who followed competition closely, my own bias aside, would probably agree that Irina seemingly would get the slight judges nod to win over Michelle most times from 2000-2005 had both skated clean or if they made similar mistakes. I could bring up many examples that reflect this. Again whether you believe this was merited, or view this as judges bias, or disagree with my theory altogether, so be it, but that was my impression from analyzing scores/competions, etc.....What happened though was Irina just often could not skate clean when it counted most, and even if she came close often Michelle would go totally clean while Irina would not quite in those biggest events.

Irina could have certainly have won any of the 2000 Worlds, 2001 Worlds, 2002 Olympics, 2006 Olympics, with a clean performance in the final free skate, but failed to do so each time and the person who did manage it won instead.

Judges do like speed and value it very much. This is nothing new.

 

[bekalc]

Feraina why should'nt speed be reflected in presentation scores. Speed definetly relates to skating skills.. Chris as for Yu-na's crowd reaction... Do you know how the crowd responded, where you there, because Yu-na got a partial standing ovation... Considering that most Russian skating fans probably don't know who she is.. That's a big deal.. And well Yu-na wasn't exactly skating in Korea like Mao was skating Japan.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I suspect someone might have asked the same question.

Why did Yan Liu rank so low? I understand she is not known for her speed. However, her LP marks seem a bit low to me for a half decent, clean program.

I think that's the problem. She has a stigma (like Lambiel's 3A) and unless she picks up on the speed, the judges are predisposed to ensure this problem has been taken care. Too bad, she is a lovely skater.

Joe

 

[blue dog]

It's not just judging between competitions, but also judging within the same competition. I seriously doubt the CoR audience agreed that Kim's shaky free skate was 42% better than Petushkova's clean 5 triple performance. My guess is that they left thinking that the judging was based more on reputation than actual performance.

Thank goodness there's a lot more to a performance than just triple jumps! Let's compare. Here is Nina Petushkova:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pC-wDx8Cugs


and this is Yeon-Ah:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=m2NRGeDRzg8

From my own observation:

*Petushkova has a lot of talent-she could be Russia's next ladies champion (I don't want to jinx her, because from what I saw, I like)
*Yeon-Ah has some jump issues to fix
*With the other parts of the skate--Petushkova does what Irina did for years, which is have superfluous arm movements that had nothing to do with the music. She also hides a terrible spiral position by "biellmanizing" it and doing superfluous arm movements during the spiral. She also needed a passport during her layback.
*When it comes to speed, Yeon-ah has it all over her. Nina is slow. The footwork sequence especially not only ignored the music, but the music got AHEAD of her many times.
*Petushkova has a great future--she just needs to finish her moves, hold out a lot of the moves longer, improve her spirals and spins.

My suggestion for Nina--leave Russia and train elsewhere! If her comfort zone is broken, she will most likely concentrate more on her skating.

But back to your point--Yeon-Ah didn't just beat her on reputation, Chris. There were other things on TOP of that.

 

[fourclover]

It's not just judging between competitions, but also judging within the same competition. I seriously doubt the CoR audience agreed that Kim's shaky free skate was 42% better than Petushkova's clean 5 triple performance. My guess is that they left thinking that the judging was based more on reputation than actual performance.

I can't believe anyone could go so LOW enough to DISCREDIT one of the world's best skater's efforts (blood, tears, sweat) in one breath: "Judging was based on reputation than actual perfomance"

I still don't see how YOU don't see Yu-na's performance was the best out of the lot but the bigger issue here is that if everyone thought like you nobody would try to win the gold medal - people like you will always say "she got the gold medal because she's popular and actually so and so who finished third or fifth (or whatever) should have won"

But then again the best way to deal with your kind is to IGNORE

 

[fourclover]

If the audience was judging, it would not be a competition, it would be a popularity contest.

I think Yu-Na's jumps are underrotated only in your head.

Well put.

 

[qazwsx]

If the audience was judging, it would not be a competition, it would be a popularity contest.

I think Yu-Na's jumps are underrotated only in your head.

:chorus: it would've helped to at least have another person seeing the same underrotation.

 

[Skye]

I suspect someone might have asked the same question.

Why did Yan Liu rank so low? I understand she is not known for her speed. However, her LP marks seem a bit low to me for a half decent, clean program.

I have never seen Yan Liu in person, but even from what I've seen of her on TV she is one of the slowest skaters out there and most of the time music is just playing in the background with no connection whatsoever to the choreography. I really think it is a shame, as she has all 5 triples (though she rarely lands all of them) and quite decent spins.

 

[Wrlmy]

I have never seen Yan Liu in person, but even from what I've seen of her on TV she is one of the slowest skaters out there and most of the time music is just playing in the background with no connection whatsoever to the choreography. I really think it is a shame, as she has all 5 triples (though she rarely lands all of them) and quite decent spins.

Isn't Chen Lu her coach? I hope she doesn't give up on Yan Liu. Or has Chinese federation moved on to Binshu Xu who is much younger and seems promising?

 

[ChrisH]

I totally agree with the other posts concerning Yan Liu's low PC scores. That also really affected her ISU ranking, as there is a 225 point difference between placing 8th vs. 9th in a grand prix event.

*Yeon-Ah has some jump issues to fix

Thank you for objectively reviewing the programs. I did not think Petushkova was underscored, but that Yu-Na was overscored.

*When it comes to speed, Yeon-ah has it all over her. Nina is slow. The footwork sequence especially not only ignored the music, but the music got AHEAD of her many times.

I think that highlights how athletic ability has gone beyond the skating skills component score and has invaded and permeated the other PC scores. But that's a whole other topic.

But back to your point--Yeon-Ah didn't just beat her on reputation, Chris. There were other things on TOP of that.

I never said it was just on reputation. And besides, reputation is not supposed to be a factor at all according to the ISU rules, although I can understand why that rule isn't always strictly adhered to.

---

So now your arguing that Petushkova skated better than Kim...

No I didn't, and it's hard to see how any objective person could have misinterpreted me that way.

:chorus: it would've helped to at least have another person seeing the same underrotation.

If you had read the previous posts, you would've seen that *Sniper* and mizu_iro also saw underrotations.