Daisuke Takahashi To Take Year Out To Decide Future

[makaihime]

I feel like the fall did disturb the performance enough for it to be reflected (more severely) in the PCS. I feel like, had he not been Olympic champ, perhaps that would've happened. But yeah, you're right, the PCS is so crazy now I don't know what to think anymore.

I guess I'm not saying the scoring is incorrect under the current system, per se. I'm just questioning if Hanyu really delivered the two best skates of the competition, in order to merit the win. But that goes back to "maybe the system is broken" as opposed to "whether he was scored correctly in the system that exists." The former is just as big a problem if not bigger, imo. The new edge rules and stuff really worry me.

Most likely not. Chan in 2013 W had 2 falls, popped a triple, and one jump was hand on ice so 4 major mistakes and he still got PCS of 88 I mean....really.

@ioanap You don't have to wonder, just look at Chan. His PCS are higher than Hanyus (fairly so and he has the best SS out of any skater even Kozuka) AND his BV is the closest to Hanyus and he still can't beat him. Unless someone gets really close to Hanyu in BV or Hanyu makes major mistakes, no ones going to be beating him. Javier has a REAL good chance of knocking Hanyu off the podium because his BV is close enough and they get around the same PCS now so it just depends on who makes the mistake. (And javier needs to be REAL careful now with the new rules about popping....)

 

[ioanna]

Well if Hanyu's BV is higher in both SP and LP then Dai's chances of beating him again are close to zero. If PCS weren't as crazy as they are nowadays, and if the judges scored him properly, maybe he could have made up for the BV difference in that way. In a perfect world anyway.

 

[Sandpiper]

But Chan is... Chan. Replace Olympic champ with "favourite." Chan vs. Ten is as lopsided as Hanyu vs. Machida, if not more.

 

[HanDomi]

But Chan is... Chan. Replace Olympic champ with "favourite." Chan vs. Ten is as lopsided as Hanyu vs. Machida, if not more.

Well you know, everyone have diffrent views on diffrent things


My view is that it is still sport, and if someone is even able to make even 20 points gap from SP in LP then why he should be penalized for mistake SP in LP judge and take victory away from him ? And for me it is fair thing. In 6.0 era judges could do what they want, and even technically place someone with marks ahead of someone ho technically was much better.

 

[Meoima]

The main reason they did not give Machida the gold, I think it was because of his LP program. Somehow I feel like the choreography was too literally and... sorry I don't want to use this word but when things are taken too literally it seems cheesy. Sorry Tasuki, you are cute but you should never try the same type of program again.

Yuzuru's LP is lackluster as well, but other than the costume, it is a showcase for a technical-loaded program. Frankly I think the Romeo/Juliet theme serves no meaning at all. Can anyone tell me you think of Romeo or Juliet when you watch THAT program? I only think of: "Wow, that jump, that spin, is it okay? Will he stay on his feet? How many rotations is that?" So technically Yuzuru's LP made people concentrate on his elements, not the theme.

While with Machida, people were too focused on the theme, not the elements. And frankly, I have never seen any skater nails it with Stravinsky's music, not to mention Firebird, one of the hardest music to interpret. :scowl: (what a shame, because Stravinsky IS my favourite composer, so maybe I am too harsh on anyone who choose to interpret this music).

You can watch Yuzuru's LP without any related emotions to Romeo/Juliet. And frankly, who cares, Romeo would never wear that costume, and even the most beautiful Juliet would look tedious in that costume, instead we have to focus on all the elements he was executing. So overall, Yuzuru's LP is not a great program, but it helps collecting points, and it give a better impress of a more technical skater. And that's a good strategy. (Even though I don't like it). :scratch:

 

[makaihime]

But Chan is... Chan. Replace Olympic champ with "favourite." Chan vs. Ten is as lopsided as Hanyu vs. Machida, if not more.

Okay...then look at Javier at worlds. 91 PCS with his mistakes compared to a clean Hanyu. Its not only Chan now, its almost all the top skaters (with exceptions of couse)

If anything Javi was the one with the boost, not Hanyu

 

[BlackPack]

Regarding why Chan is so hated - he, like Jeremy Abbott, gives the worst interviews that the media just milks into controversy. I don't think he's a bad guy but he comes off arrogant and petulant. I think he got his comeuppance - he only really dominated for 3 seasons the last of which Hanyu became the favorite, and his 2 out of 3 World titles are heavily disputed. Despite having competed just 2 months ago, his popularity/relevance seems to have really declined.

His strength is esoteric - skating skills, something most people, even hardcore fans, cannot appreciate without seeing him live. Chan-bots at times equate excellent skating skills with emotional artistry and performance ability, but they're not the same things. I don't think Chan evokes much emotion in others nor does he have the performance charisma that Dai has in spades.

 

[Sandpiper]

I didn't say he should be penalized in the LP mark because of the SP. That would be ridiculous. I said his fall in the SP should've been reflected in the PCS of his SP mark. And I also wondered (as in, I'm not sure) whether his LP was truly that much stronger than Machida's even though both were (relatively) clean.

EDIT: I do agree that Machida's Firebird was an overly literal and kinda cheesy interpretation. Got a good laugh at the fact that he owns two fire suits though.

 

[HanDomi]

And I also wondered (as in, I'm not sure) whether his LP was truly that much stronger than Machida's even though both were (relatively) clean.

Hanyu's program was at start 5 or 6 points in BV higher than the planned content for Machida. And Machida made that combo mistake at the beginning so a little more.

 

[makaihime]

Regarding why Chan is so hated - he, like Jeremy Abbott, gives the worst interviews that the media just milks into controversy. I don't think he's a bad guy but he comes off arrogant and petulant. I think he got his comeuppance - he only really dominated for 3 seasons, and his 2 out of 3 World titles are heavily disputed. Despite having competed just 2 months ago, his popularity/relevance seems to have really declined.

His strength is esoteric - skating skills, something most people, even hardcore fans, cannot appreciate without seeing him live. Chan-bots at times equate excellent skating skills with emotional artistry and performance ability, but they're not the same things. I don't think Chan evokes much emotion in others nor does he have the performance charisma that Dai has in spades.

Ugh...Chan's like a robot on ice...no feelings in either his face or his movements :disapp:

 

[Poice]

While I loved Hanyu's LP and like him more as a performer, I can't help but worry that his win showed that something is really broken about the system. His jacked-up BV was able to make up for an underrotated quad fall in the SP. Even after such a huge miss from Hanyu and Machida being practically perfect (and landing the same number of quads), Machida couldn't win. Something about that troubles me. I'm not enough of a technician to say if it's correct or not though. Just gut feelings.

Hanyu had two quads (4T, 4S) and 8 triples. Machida 2 quads (2x4T) and 7 triples....And of course Hanyu had all of his combo in second part of the program - that's where the difference was made.

 

[BlackPack]

Although this is a Dai thread, I just wanted to add that Yuz gives great interviews and hasn't suffered the Chan-like backlash despite winning medals with flawed performances. Fans are deeply impressed by his philosophical outlook and self-awareness. He is humble. When he wins with flaws, he admits his flaws, apologizes to his fans, and promises to do better. People understand that he won because the judges gave him the honor, not because he is entitled which Chan came across as.

 

[ioanna]

As expected of the Japanese team. Each and every one of them have apologized every time they performed flawed programs and they are very humble competitors.

 

[Sandpiper]

Maybe we shouldn't have taken over Dai's thread with Yuzu and Machida. Getting back on track:

Since lyrics are allowed next season, thoughts on whether Dai would go for it, or should he stick with the instrumentals? I'm a weird person who doesn't like the lyrics rule, but would be happy to see my favourites take advantage of it. Somebody's gonna use lyrics, why not Dai?

 

[Meoima]

I didn't say he should be penalized in the LP mark because of the SP. That would be ridiculous. I said his fall in the SP should've been reflected in the PCS of his SP mark. And I also wondered (as in, I'm not sure) whether his LP was truly that much stronger than Machida's even though both were (relatively) clean.
EDIT: I do agree that Machida's Firebird was an overly literal and kinda cheesy interpretation. Got a good laugh at the fact that he owns two fire suits though.

Yuzuru's strategy is that he put more difficult elements in the second half of the program than Machida, and those elements are the ones he's very good at (2 triple axel combos). I have to say it's an overloaded program but he still wants to do it his way. The judges gave him some credits for that effort, I think.

Frankly, if his program weren't that loaded, he would have never won 3 titles this year. The math save him 3 in Sochi and in Worlds. It's not an impressive or inspiring program, it's the program that was designed to collect as many points as possible. And it's socking that he was the one who add 2 triple axel combos in the later half. It's his idea, kinda crazy.

As for Machida, I remember his other firebird costume looks much better than the one he wear at Worlds? :think:

 

[Poice]

Daisuke said he prepared new exhibition number and I think it could be with lyrics. About the competitive program - he won't compete next season.....

 

[ioanna]

Dai has been using mostly instrumental tracks even in EX programs so he probably would have stuck to that kind of music. But I've always loved his Bachelorette EX and I cannot help imagining what it would've looked like if he turned it into a competitive program

As for his new EX he will be premiering (as soon as next month in Kazakhstan I guess), he's already said it's a slow track because his body can't handle the likes of Mambo yet.

 

[Meoima]

Dai is going to perform at Denis Ten's show, along with Mao. I hope he enjoys the show. If he decides to retire, then it's would be better for his body. He can still perform, there have been more ice shows recently. A good sign for all skaters.

Anyways, have Japanese skaters been invited to Russia ice shows before?

 

[cruzceleste]

Frankly, if his program weren't that loaded, he would have never won 3 titles this year. The math save him 3 in Sochi and in Worlds. It's not an impressive or inspiring program, it's the program that was designed to collect as many points as possible. And it's socking that he was the one who add 2 triple axel combos in the later half. It's his idea, kinda crazy.

Yuzuru´s program is a "fighter" program, he knows he still needs lots of improvement in expresión and artistry, but he knew that he can jump and with that in mind he designed his programs.

 

[makaihime]

I don't want Daisuke going for another Olympics for obvious reason but I do want to see him in one more (two is probably pushing it) competitive season...He should be able to deliver a skate he is fully satisfied with and if it can be at home+a medal that'd just be the icing on the cake for an him considering his fans dedication to him as well as what he's done for Japanese male FS.