December Marshall's Event?

[R.D.]

I beg to differ with the idea that Nationals are "not that important" this year. For many skaters, this Nationals will be the most important competition of their career -- because it'll be their only chance to *qualify* for the Olympics. Regardless of how they actually might perform at the OOOOOs, just getting there at all is a major goal, both as a lifetime experience and because the additional publicity any US skater at the OOOOOs would receive would be a big boost to their subsequent professional career.

Exactly. The Nationals are even more important this year actually because they are the ticket to the Olys after all. Miss the podium, and you won't even BE at the premier event.

That said, the top skaters basically ARE guaranteed a spot on the team (barring injury or falling asleep on the ice), but I'm still not sure I agree with the "tweaking program" theory. Maybe for Kwan, since she has like 20 of these, but not for anyone else. They are still chasing Kwan for the title.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

:scratch:

I beg to differ with the idea that Nationals are "not that important" this year. For many skaters, this Nationals will be the most important competition of their career -- because it'll be their only chance to *qualify* for the Olympics. Regardless of how they actually might perform at the OOOOOs, just getting there at all is a major goal, both as a lifetime experience and because the additional publicity any US skater at the OOOOOs would receive would be a big boost to their subsequent professional career.

OOps. Sorry about that. I didn't intend to belittle the Nats. Several countries are having deciding competition at their Nats for Oly qualification. It is important for all countries, and of course, a source of local pride. Again, I take back what I said about the Nats.

I was definitely belittling the Dec. Marshall's which I still see no point in a skater attending them except to satisfy the viewing of fans of certain skaters. As for the prize money, that would have a point if the contest was open only to the skaters who need the money. Of course certain skaters will draw more viewers to the arena and TV sets and Mr. Marshall uses that for commercialism. I believe he puts certain skaters under contract for that purpose.

I am certain that the top Federations will ensure that their top skaters have sufficient funds to carry on their skating pursuits., and the top Federations are looking forward to the Olys.

To send their skaters to the USA for a contest at that time of the year would have to be a big decision considering their Nats are due soon and the jet lag alone and loss of practice will not be favorable to the contestant. I don't think they would send their second tier skaters to any contest with big prize money nor would Mr. Marshall want second tier skaters.

So who are the top tier skaters who need money? Some already have plenty of bucks by their contracts.

I'm not against these little contests. They are fun to watch and give me a rush to watch some skating. I'm thinking more of the skaters world wide rather than my own desires to see the usual skaters. But as we would have it.... Let there be an American Preview of their Nationals, and I am sure certain skaters have already been paid top dollars to show up. Obviously, the GPs told us nothing.

Question: If there was a cheesefest in St.Petersburg, would you think it wise to have MK and SC go to it with US Nats just weeks away?

Joe

 

[Mathman]

I'm just thinking who would come just before Nats? Certainly no international skater will make the trip before their own Nats and the Olys looming quite near. Jet lag, loss of practice, etc., etc. And they know who will win the big bucks.

Well, Plushenko has come to the December Marshall's three times, and has won the big bucks all three times. Slutskaya has won the big bucks, beating Michelle, at least twice (once when it was called the Hershey's Classic -- Irina won a gigantic candy bar in addition to the prze money! ). Arakawa won second prize ($25,000) the year before, beating Sasha and Jenny Kirk and narrowly losing to Michelle in a nail-biter.

So if you are trying to say that the big bucks are reserved for the Americans, that certainly has not been the case.

If you mean that we can usually predict which skaters are the favorites (Plushenko, Joubert, Slutskaya, Kwan, Cohen) -- well, that is true of every contest, including the Olympics. Why pick on Marshall's?

So why should, say, Susanna Poykio, Miki Ando or Joannie Rochette want to come to Marshall's a month before their National championships? That's up to them to make this decission, of course. But they might be pleased to have another chance to practice their program before a crowd and judges, so as not to go into Nationals all rusty from not having performed for so long.

Only six ladies make the GP finals. What are the rest supposed to do? Skate around the practice rink for a month? Isn't four weeks long enough to get over jet lag?

Mathman

 

[Mathman]

Why should the USFSA offer a paycheck to a bunch of obscure foreign skaters while overlooking all the deserving US men who are struggling to pay their skating bills?

Because we are such nice guys.

 

[Mathman]

Question: If there was a cheesefest in St.Petersburg, would you think it wise to have MK and SC go to it with US Nats just weeks away?

Heck, yeah! Sock it to 'em! Go over there and show those Ruskies who's boss! Don't tiptoe into the Olympics backwards, go in as conquering lions!

We have met the enemy and they are ours! Take no prisoners! Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead! You want a piece of me? Anywhere, any time, baby!

http://sport.ard.de/sp/wintersport/news200503/16/img/16_michelle_kwan_dpa_300.jpg

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, Plushenko has come to the December Marshall's three times, and has won the big bucks all three times. Slutskaya has won the big bucks, beating Michelle, at least twice (once when it was called the Hershey's Classic -- Irina won a gigantic candy bar in addition to the prze money! ). Arakawa won second prize ($25,000) the year before, beating Sasha and Jenny Kirk and narrowly losing to Michelle in a nail-biter.

Plushy is Plushy.... I don't think he's showing up much this season anywhere except where it counts. Irina could use some money, I think, but I am not sure of this. Yet she's not coming. Bigger bucks in COI after the Oly Gold. Arakawa didn't show up last year? Learned her lesson?

My point was to emphasize the skaters who do need money are not in the mix, and if they are a top tier skater, their Feds will take care of them.

[So if you are trying to say that the big bucks are reserved for the Americans, that certainly has not been the case.[/QUOTE]

I don't think I said that. If I did it was in reference to they don't need it. And those big bucks are only for the top 3 results.

If you mean that we can usually predict which skaters are the favorites (Plushenko, Joubert, Slutskaya, Kwan, Cohen) -- well, that is true of every contest, including the Olympics. Why pick on Marshall's?

Only the December one. It's too close to more important competitions. I'm thinking of the the skaters - not the viewers. The Cheesefests- all of them - are just contests. they are not serious competitions. Without looking.. who placed third in Campbells 2000 and how well did he/she skate? I do like the anticlimatic Marshalls after the Worlds. Who cares? It doesn't interfere with any serious contest and it's a fun show.

So why should, say, Susanna Poykio, Miki Ando or Joannie Rochette want to come to Marshall's a month before their National championships? That's up to them to make this decission, of course. But they might be pleased to have another chance to practice their program before a crowd and judges, so as not to go into Nationals all rusty from not having performed for so long.

Good point. Joannie and Susanna have never been invited before so Mr.Campbell had to scramble to get some decent competition for the American divas. It's not that near their Nats as Marschalls is.

Only six ladies make the GP finals. What are the rest supposed to do? Skate around the practice rink for a month? Isn't four weeks long enough to get over jet lag? Mathman

There is also preparation for the trip including several run throughs of their program before travel begins. Then there is the jet lag on arrival and everyone is different on how to handle it. There is time needed to get settled and have some more practice before the contest. Then there is the preparation of going home and then some jet lag on arrival. I kind of think practice sessions for more important competitions will suffer. It's ok to disagree with me on this. The American divas will not have this problem, and I believe we will have a little skating show which is the basis for fans wanting the contest. And my point is not Campbells.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Just read on another thread. Joubert withdraws from Campbells. So much for the international aspect of the cheesefests.

Maybe Michael will replace him? or will it be Savoie?

 

[dfj]

Maybe Michael will replace him? or will it be Savoie?

USFSA says Michael.

 

[R.D.]

Campbell's does get more American by the minute. But I'm not surprised at all by this.

I think this will be the route of all the future invitationals- at least those created by USFS.

 

[attyfan]

It might depend on how many other countries do cheesefests. Irina, for example, went to the Dec Marshall's last year -- she needed the money, and could get more there than any other event. This year, she could do the Japanese cheesefest instead of the American one.

 

[Mathman]

I don't know, Joe. This is supposed to be a sport, but skaters spend more time thinking up reaons not to skate than they do skating.

 

[millie]

I don't know, Joe. This is supposed to be a sport, but skaters spend more time thinking up reaons not to skate than they do skating.

A sport hey, if this was a tennis championship or game, would they be able to opt out as easy as in figure skating?

 

[soogar]

A sport hey, if this was a tennis championship or game, would they be able to opt out as easy as in figure skating?

Tennis players do their share of opting out of events. I was a big fan of tennis in the early 80's-95 and there were lots of problems with male players bagging events to participate in lucrative exhibitions.

I think that the reason skaters opt out of events is that there doesn't seem to any freedom in selecting the events to participate in. There's events that the federations wants them to do, then events that the ISU wants them to do and no though is put into the timing and where these events take place so skaters schedule events and then hope for the best.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It might depend on how many other countries do cheesefests. Irina, for example, went to the Dec Marshall's last year -- she needed the money, and could get more there than any other event. This year, she could do the Japanese cheesefest instead of the American one.

Maybe, the Japanese organizers made her an offer she couldn't refuse

I see nothing wrong with cheesefests from wherever but it's up to the skater to decide whether to go or not especially if it's a few weeks before a competition.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Just for reference, I looked up the events that Sarah Hughes and Alexei Yagudin undertook in the fall leading up to the 2002 Olympics.

Sarah did three Grand Prix events (Skate America, Skate Canada and Trophee Lalique), as well as the Grand Prix Final and the December cheesefest (Hersey's Kisses Challenge) and U.S. nationals.

Alexei did the Goodwill Games (agaist his coaches wishes, IIRC), the Masters of Figure Skating (October pro-am cheesefest), Skate Canada, Trophee Lalique, the Grand Prix Final and Europeans.

This kind of full shedule may have been easy for 16-year-old Sarah in 2001 -- maybe not so easy for Michelle, Irina, Shizuka and Suguri in their mid-twenties in 2005.

Mathman

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I wouldn't worry about it MM. This is your live competition and you will see in person the American Divas' new programs.Tweeked or untweeked; Whether Joannie or Susanna are any kind of threat this year; what Kimmie and Emilie have to offer for that third spot.

Also: Michael and Eman attempting their quads. No attempts by Weir and Lysacek but, yes, their new programs; Honda trying to rebound; I forgot who was the sixth but we will never see him on TV.

In fact, I am almost positive (I just saw DOUBT on Broadway) we will never see
Susanna, Joannie, Takeshi, or the sixth guy on TV. You WILL!!!, and my message: Don't sweat the results. they will all change in due course.

Joe

 

[nymkfan51]

Susanna's not going to Campbell's, is she?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Kreikie (I think that's Africkanze for bah!) Can anyone list the complete list for Campbells? I'm not keeping up with the changes.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

As of yesterday:

Arakawa
Cohen
Hughes
Kwan
Meissner
Rochette

Goebel
Honda
Lysacek
Sandhu
Weir
Weiss

But here's my problem, Joe. Not only does Michelle have to beat Shizuka and Sasha on Saturday, she has to get more points than Irina got in the Japanese thing last week!

MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As of yesterday:

Arakawa
Cohen
Hughes
Kwan
Meissner
Rochette

Goebel
Honda
Lysacek
Sandhu
Weir
Weiss

But here's my problem, Joe. Not only does Michelle have to beat Shizuka and Sasha on Saturday, she has to get more points than Irina got in the Japanese thing last week!

MM

After seeing Shiz on Soogar's tape, La Kwan has a handful of skaters to beat.
As you know, I'm looking for something else at these competitions besides medals. Shiz has proved now that she is competitive. Is Michelle? We'll see and if you go you'll see it up front!

BTW - Do we know who the judges are? And will you give us a run down on the two gals and two guys that we will not see on TV?

Joe