Dick Button on "twizzles"

[Mathman]

On the "Push Dick's Button" segment on ESPN, Button said that he didn't like too many twizzles in a program bacause they don't contribute anything to the character of the dance.

When a couple is doing a straight line step sequence, is there such a thing as "twizzling in a tango mood" or "twizzling in a waltz tempo?"

 

[SeaniBu]

As smart and as much as I believe in his knowledge, I wonder if Dick even likes FS anymore. ???? He definitely likes it the way it used to be, but now I wonder. All the ugly comments etc....

Does it fit the guidelines of "dance?" Well is it dance or Ice dance?

Is this his way of "hitting stage left?"

 

[nubka]

Well, I guess Dick and I will have to agree to disagree, because I simply luuuuv twizzles!!

When they are well executed, of course...!

 

[jennylovskt]

At first, I don't understand why Dick Button went after twizzles. I thought it over several times. Now I partly agree with him. I have to state that I am not a knowledgeable person for ice dance. But as much as I understand it, I think twizzles in tango is much more suitable than twizzles in waltz. So twizzles in every program IS too much. I am not particularly the one against twizzles, but I don't feel that twizzles are pretty either.

 

[Tonichelle]

Dick - he's lost just about all credibility... IMHO... this is the same guy who has issues calling a jump and then makes mistakes... if he'd just own up to the fact that he let his mind run away with his mouth then it'd be okay but he blames it on the skater (darn that guy for trying a quad toe instead of a double axel! I mean, the NERVE! )

I love love love twizzles...they are fun to look at and they are obviously difficult otherwise teh top teams wouldn't have the issues they tend to.

Dick has forgotten this is a SPORT it's going to evolve and get harder... as all sports do (and should!)

 

[Wolfgang]

I disagree with Mr. Button about 99% of the time, and this is no exception.
Twizzles are great - I can't do them yet, but I'll try....- and I think they do add to the character of the dance, especially if it is something fast and upbeat.
Don't think they fit terribly well into either tango or waltz - unless it's a VERY fast waltz - but swing, cha cha, maybe foxtrot/quickstep, salsa, polka and other lively dances go perfectly well with twizzles.

 

[Tinymavy15]

i like twizzles. i like them becasue a viewer like me, all the couple seem to have the same level of difficulty out there. But any fool can see that fast tight clean twizzles are betetr than sloppy slow ones. I think that Davis and White have AMAZING twizzles and that it will take them far. Dick is not an ice dance expert, so i don't understand his complaint. he dosen't even comenate on the ice dance competion.

 

[SeaniBu]

Davis and White have AMAZING twizzles and that it will take them far. Dick is not an ice dance expert, so i don't understand his complaint. he dosen't even comenate on the ice dance competion.

ITA!!!!!

And I'll stick with Suzy impressions. She is a fave now-a-days anyway. I wish she commented in others too, but understand why.

Some of you guys are scaring me, how good do you posters have to be at say twizzles before you consider yourselves able to do them? These high standards I am feeling like I am not doing anything at all (well Shi-Chan would be jealous of my Ina j/k), I was thinking Seani is Sloppy, but it is still a ____ isn't it? Maybe not.

 

[gkelly]

Some of you guys are scaring me, how good do you posters have to be at say twizzles before you consider yourselves able to do them? These high standards I am feeling like I am not doing anything at all (well Shi-Chan would be jealous of my Ina j/k), I was thinking Seani is Sloppy, but it is still a ____ isn't it? Maybe not.

Try a forward inside single twizzle (on your right foot if you rotate counterclockwise, left if you prefer clockwise). Think of it as a quick forward three followed immediately by a back three, but don't worry about checking the rotation. Then you can just step forward onto your other foot.

That's about all I can do in terms of twizzles. Well, I can do them badly on the bad side, or 1.5 rotations on the good side, but that's all. Can't do them starting on any other edge.

Now, the senior dancers who can do four rotations in one direction, change edge and do four the other way on without changing feet, with difficult arm and free-leg variations -- now that's hard.

 

[waxel]

I don't really care one way or another about twizzles. But I must defend Dick. I don't think he is negative about the sport, I think he is negative about CoP. And guess what? SO AM I!

 

[Tinymavy15]

i can do very good twizzles, on side, i do then with the freelag leg held high and close to the skatiing foot... i try ut diffrent arm positions... i can do four revolutions? i never actually counted! :chorus:

 

[jennylovskt]

and I think they do add to the character of the dance, especially if it is something fast and upbeat.
Don't think they fit terribly well into either tango or waltz - unless it's a VERY fast waltz - but swing, cha cha, maybe foxtrot/quickstep, salsa, polka and other lively dances go perfectly well with twizzles.

Thanks, Wolfgang! That was what I meant. When I said tango, I actually was thinking about Latin dances. Tango actually is too slow for using twizzles. Waltz usually shouldn't use it.

 

[Alsace]

I think he has a point about the absurdity of twizzles being in _every_ dance. Surely there is a "separate the men from the boys" or the "wannabes from the haves" type of step available in every rhythm. Just require different steps at the same difficulty level for each rhythm.

 

[Ladskater]

On the "Push Dick's Button" segment on ESPN, Button said that he didn't like too many twizzles in a program bacause they don't contribute anything to the character of the dance.

When a couple is doing a straight line step sequence, is there such a thing as "twizzling in a tango mood" or "twizzling in a waltz tempo?"

Again I agree with Dick Button - but then I too am from the "old school of figure skating." The twizzle certainly adds a degree of difficulty to the program and probably that is their purpose more than anything. As Dick observes "they don't contribute anything to the character of the dance." Once you have seen one twizzle you pretty much have seen them all. The judges must get tired of seeing them, I am sure. The problem is with a move such as the twizzle all the dances start looking the same. One does not anticipate anything, you know it is coming at some point. I think that is Dick's point. Also like anymove the rule "less is more" is good to follow. I feel the same about too many lifts and not enough actual ice dance footwork.

I answer to your question above - When a couple is doing a straight line step sequence, is there such a thing as "twizzling in a tango mood" or "twizzling in a waltz tempo?" - I would say no, not really. A twizzle is a series of turns which must be executed quickly and precisely by both dancers. It's kind of like putting a move such as a rocker to add difficulty to the program and show the couples technical qualities. Although Virtue and Moir nicely incorporated the twizzle into their program which was done to the music "Valse Triste" by Sibelius. They add variety to their twizzle by executing it in two different directions. Their program is lovely and my favorite free dance of the entire season. It's ice dancing the way it should be.

I would say in essence to enhance the dancers program the twizzle should reflect the tempo of their music and fit their theme just as the rest of the choreography should.

Intersting topic.

For a look at Virtue and Moir:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enRVzC502EY

 

[kaesie]

twizzles etc.

The original twizzles was in the Argentine Tango (lady only). This step added tango drama to the dance . The lady attempted to hold onto her edge and
draw out the beat, then twizzle in a split second. Surprise, drama and skill
were conveyed in this singular twizzle.

The next appearance of the twizzle in ice dance occurred in the Ravensburger Waltz...And once again, the woman was the twizzler....and again to great waltzy effect. If the twizzle was done correctly, with appropriate timing and flow, the dance couple looked like they were gliding across a ballroom in Vienna. Thank you Erich and Angelika Buch who created the dance.

What makes twizzles currently so boring in free dance is they are not usually used as a choreographic flourish but are required by the dancers. So they occur in EVERY DANCE like a jump in a free skate with little regard to musical placement or location on the ice. They are the choreographic equivalent of the mandatory triple flip in a lady's program and usually occur roughly in the same place on the ice.

The twizzles have no special meaning...the free legs of the dancers are usually bent and ugly...
and the side by side twizzles cease conveying any aesthetic choreographic meaning... In fact, they seem to interrupt the movement and flow of the dance. Thus Uncle Dickie's remarks regarding the twizzle....which has become
the dance equivalent of the biellman leg position or that other usually hideous
leg up, lean back position in the spiral sequence in every lady's program.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't think Dick was saying to abandon the twizzles. I understood him to mean their value in ballroom like skate dance doesn't work. I could agree with him.

They are tricks like everything else in figure skating and belong iin the free dance with movie background music.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

The original twizzles was in the Argentine Tango (lady only). This step added tango drama to the dance . The lady attempted to hold onto her edge and draw out the beat, then twizzle in a split second. Surprise, drama and skill were conveyed in this singular twizzle.

The next appearance of the twizzle in ice dance occurred in the Ravensburger Waltz...And once again, the woman was the twizzler....and again to great waltzy effect. If the twizzle was done correctly, with appropriate timing and flow, the dance couple looked like they were gliding across a ballroom in Vienna. Thank you Erich and Angelika Buch who created the dance...

Thanks for that interesting and informative post!