Divergence at Worlds and International level

[krenseby]

I was just thinking about something: What happens to the USFSA's marketing machine when two skaters from the same country place differently against each other on the national level and foreign level. This has happened a lot in the US: Kwan beats Cohen and Lipinski at Nationals, but they beat her at Worlds. Lysacek loses to Johnny at Nationals but beats him at Worlds... Which one of the skaters gets promoted over the other? The one that does better at US nationals or at the international events like the GP circuit and Worlds?

I ask this question because I wonder how the USFSA promotion efforts will change in the next couple of months. For example, Zhang has already made herself into an internationally successful skater by beating Meissner at the GP final, this admittedly at a time when Meissner is really down in the dumps. Does it make sense to promote Zhang more than Meissner, to hype her up to the sky even if she can't go to Worlds? And what about Ashley Wagner. Doesn't she deserve a bit of hype too, even at Kimmie's expense?

As for Weir and Lysacek, if Weir does decently at Nationals even without winning, this might mean that he has a shot at doing well at Worlds. Will the USFSA start promoting him more or will it stick to Evan because he has proven himself more reliable over the years?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I believe the quad is a basic element in Men's LP skate. Daisuke, Joubert, Lambiel and it looks like Lysacek have this basic. There is nothing that will prevent them from skating their best also under fire.

With Johnny skating his best, how do we fit him in the Group of Four?

Joe

 

[krenseby]

I believe the quad is a basic element in Men's LP skate. Daisuke, Joubert, Lambiel and it looks like Lysacek have this basic. There is nothing that will prevent them from skating their best also under fire.

With Johnny skating his best, how do we fit him in the Group of Four?

Joe

Yeah the fact that he didn't skate his best at the GP final means that we don't know how he would have fared against the rest of the men at their best...........

 

[Mathman]

Back on topic (?), I have felt in the past that USFS gave the most prominance to its National Champion. For instance, in assignments to international events, the pecking order is established almost entirely by placement at nationals. The USFS website always features big pictures of the four (now five, counting synchro), national champions, regardless of how they fared at Worlds or other international events. In 2006, for instance, Sasha (U.S. champion) was featured over Kimmie (world champion).

IIRC that was the big stink in Spokane when Lysacek was promoted over Weir. People thought that Weir, as defending U.S. champion, was being deliberately dissed.

I think it depends, too, on the individuals. Michelle Kwan was USFS' poster girl no matter who beat her in international competition. Because, well, she was Michelle Kwan, and the other girl wasn't.

In the case of Zhang versus Meissner, I think they will promote the contest. The U.S. and former World champion against the spectacular "Miss Next." Like the way they promoted the "baby ballerinas" who came along to challenge Michelle's reign.

 

[krenseby]

Back on topic (?), I have felt in the past that USFS gave the most prominance to its National Champion. For instance, in assignments to international events, the pecking order is established almost entirely by placement at nationals. The USFS website always features big pictures of the four (now five, counting synchro), national champions, regardless of how they fared at Worlds or other international events. In 2006, for instance, Sasha (U.S. champion) was featured over Kimmie (world champion).

IIRC that was the big stink in Spokane when Lysacek was promoted over Weir. People thought that Weir, as defending U.S. champion, was being deliberately dissed.

I think it depends, too, on the individuals. Michelle Kwan was USFS' poster girl no matter who beat her in international competition. Because, well, she was Michelle Kwan, and the other girl wasn't.

In the case of Zhang versus Meissner, I think they will promote the contest. The U.S. and former World champion against the spectacular "Miss Next." Like the way they promoted the "baby ballerinas" who came along to challenge Michelle's reign.

I have to say the policy of heavy promotion of national champions with much less attention granted to silver and bronze medalists is a terrible idea.

The champion can screw up at Worlds and be outdone by one of the other medalists. That is fine. However, the fact that the champion gets so much attention and expectations loaded upon him increases the pressure.

Let's take the ladies figure skating team sent to the 2002 Olympics. Sarah and Sasha both could have medaled, but it was Kwan who bore the brunt of expectations. Yes, Kwan is talented, but didn't the USFSA also know that the ice is slippery and that anyone else could win as well..... That's why they should have also promoted Sasha + Sarah and sort of established at the outset that Michelle has a chance to win Gold, but it wasn't expected.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

All Federations publicize their most notable skater for interest in attracting fans to the stadiums. In Moscow, Irina was prominently displayed on billboards, and in Tokyo Mao had her share of publicity.

I can only speculate that marketing is based on popularity and in Kwan's case that seemed quite to be the answer to what the USFS will market. Tara's win was publicized to the fullest but since she no longer was able to garner Kwan's fandom, she fell by the wayside. I believe the USFS had her the Oly Champ in 02. Tara left competitive skating before the USFS could make her more popular with the public.

After Kwan fell in the practice rink in Torino, and had to withdraw, Sasha got full backing of the USFS, and continued to get it even after Calgary. Emilie also got a piece of that action. The USFS does want a top sportswoman.

Since the sport is in decline, the USFS is busy trying to build it up. I believe, the USFS wrongly associated Johnny's androgenous appearances as being a cause for the decline. I do hope they got over that.

btw. Eliot Halverson is doing quite well with the USFS.

Joe

 

[Tinymavy15]

i think that in situations where one beats the other here, but not there, that is major rivalry recipe. Will Evan win nationals? can johnny get a world medal? USFSA advertises the RIVALRY!

 

[Jaana]

IIRC that was the big stink in Spokane when Lysacek was promoted over Weir. People thought that Weir, as defending U.S. champion, was being deliberately dissed.

Maybe Lysacek got promoted for 2007 Nationals because he was a two-time Worlds bronze medalist (Weir no medals from Worlds) and in the fall before the Nationals

- Lysacek 2nd in Skate America vs. Weir 3rd in Skate Canada
- Lysacek 1st in Cup of China vs Weir 2nd in Cup of Russia

My personal guess is that perhaps also one reason was those photos of Weir wearing high heels and having been made up to look like a girl?

Yes, I think a good idea would be to advertize the rivalvy between Lysacek and Weir.

 

[krenseby]

Maybe Lysacek got promoted for 2007 Nationals because he was a two-time Worlds bronze medalist (Weir no medals from Worlds) and in the fall before the Nationals

- Lysacek 2nd in Skate America vs. Weir 3rd in Skate Canada
- Lysacek 1st in Cup of China vs Weir 2nd in Cup of Russia

My personal guess is that perhaps also one reason was those photos of Weir wearing high heels and having been made up to look like a girl?

Yes, I think a good idea would be to advertize the rivalvy between Lysacek and Weir.

I have no problem with Lysacek being promoted over Weir last season. He skated better and he deserved it.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Traditionally Federations put their weight behind the skater they feel will do best internationally, because, traditionally, the #3 skaters got dumped during major championships with rare exception (Soviet pairs and dance, when they were incredibly deep) and very often, the #2. again, except for Soviet pairs and dance, and sometimes US Ladies and Russian Men (during the Plushenko/Yagudin days). Put the weight behind Cohen instead of Kwan, and both look weak, with Slutskaya (the script goes) coming up the middle for the win. Ms. Arakawa re-wrote that script.

Kwan had far too many endorsements for The Powers That Be to promote a US skater who surpassed her internationally after 2003. Also, a majority of fans in the US were more influenced by Kwan's standings at Nationals and Cheezefests than Worlds, and even in 1998 and 2002, another US skater won gold, which assuaged some of the pain to the US viewing public.

My gut feeling is that USFS prefers skaters that suck up, and they pounce on every Weir slip. He's a thorn in their side.

 

[Vodka Shot]

In a situation like that they'll pick the skater that is the safest (most boring) and promote that one.

 

[heyang]

I don't think there's a lot of point in promoting Zhang actively this year because she's not old enough to go to World's. They can certainly feature her during Nationals, but that won't help them promote interest in World's.

If Caroline medals, then I'm sure the marketing machine will be enforce next season for Caroline.

As for Evan vs Johnnie, there's a definite rivalry to promote. However, there is reason to be wary as well because neither one is a lock for a medal at World's.

If anything, Tanith and Ben should be the recipients of USFSA marketing since they have the strongest chance of medalling at World's for the US out of all the discplines.

 

[brigichan]

Whatever supporting policy USFS follows isn't really working out, imho. Ever since Michelle Kwan, there are no really, internationally beloved and hugely popular ladies skaters from the US. Yes, people know and admire Sasha, but more so domestically than internationally, since she is not competing anymore. Kimmie? Kinda lacks the real character, even thought she is a very fine and sweet girl.

The situation of the men is different: they push the "classical, traditional, elegant & masculine" style of Evan to make skating more appealing to audiences, but where are the results? No matter how hard they try, Johnny Weir is still far more successful in gaining audience and waking up people's interest in US skaters than Evan. Johnny was being pushed into the background in the last couple of months (years?) and still doing a besser sports ambassador work than all the promoted US skaters. If I were a USFS officer, maybe I would start to think about how is this happening.

 

[chuckm]

Johnny Weir is far more popular internationally than he is nationally. There were groups of Johnny's Angels at his GPs in China and Russia. I've not noticed international support for Evan Lysacek, though.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

The only way a skater is going to get USFS hype is to go to the USFS website. Why would a newspaper pick up the USFS stories except just before a US Nats or Int'l Worlds. I mean, did anyone read about the GPF in their local newspapers before, during or after? Hyping Caroline in July would not be picked up by the media.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

mean, did anyone read about the GPF in their local newspapers before, during or after?

Anchorage Daily News had a little blurb on Wagner in the TV section gearing up to one of the GP events she was in saying 'she once skated here' kinda thing. It wasn't an article, but it was interesting

 

[Mathman]

Around here, the newspaper and television coverage focuses almost entirely on local skaters. Belbin and Agosto get a lot of publicity. In fact, the ice dancers in Shpilband's group and the juniors from local rinks (including the Ann Arbor FSC) are featured every now and again in the paper.

This is a distinct change from a few years ago when you could count on seeing a big picture of Michelle in the sports pages after every major event. Now there is hardly any coverage at all about National and International competitions unless there is a local angle.