Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[uhh]

My biggest problem with H/D's SD is that there is no sense of rhythm change between the RW & the partial step sequence - I think they must have been going for a foxtrot, because it really wasn't a polka or march, but I got no sense of the swing or steadiness of the foxtrot that should be there. I think I'm going to have to try to skate a foxtrot to the music & see if it actually works! The RW part was OK, I prefer stronger waltzes but the one, two, THREE, beat that you need for RW was there.

Snow63, don't worry about I/Z's choice! I've seen lots of couples on dance shows use Somebody to Love for a waltz, and do it in a very traditional style, it works because even though it's a pop song, the construction of the music is actually very classic - Mercury had classical music lessons from when he was 7 & it really is a standard viennese style waltz, just with some cool extra bits added

 

[Alba]

I so agree with you, Alba. You have no idea. The
The most waltzy waltz I've seen so far was juniors Parsons SD. And people here said the music is too boring (haha! Prokofiev's waltz is boring, oh well ), while they're happy about Hubbel/Donohue's disaster of an SD. Some people may like it, but there is absolutely no waltz interpretation in that dance. And I'm afraid Elena and Ruslan will be right there with H/D. I strongly disapprove their music choice. Strongly. :disapp: I actually think these SD'es all have to get a deduction and pattern pelality for music choice (or whatever it is called), just like Agafonova/Ucar's 'polka' disaster in '12-'13 season, if you remember it.

Somebody to love has been used for a waltz in ballroom. Well, I've seen this number in that television program, but I don't like that one either. So I can only hope that I&Z do a better job. H&D program was a real snoozefest for me and I didn't sense a rhythm change either and this goes against the rules. Maybe I have to check it again though because I watched their SD one time only.
I have to say that the scores these couples received in this competition were a joke. I understand it's a local competition and scores are inflated but I think it's time for officials to understand that they're not gonna help their couples by giving scores like candies. All couples of D&L were boring to me. I like the FD of H&D and the Danes but my god, they were monotone and sad, sad, sad.

 

[bramweld]

Somebody to love has been used for a waltz in ballroom. Well, I've seen this number in that television program, but I don't like that one either. So I can only hope that I&Z do a better job. H&D program was a real snoozefest for me and I didn't sense a rhythm change either and this goes against the rules. Maybe I have to check it again though because I watched their SD one time only.
I have to say that the scores these couples received in this competition were a joke. I understand it's a local competition and scores are inflated but I think it's time for officials to understand that they're not gonna help their couples by giving scores like candies.

H/D and P/I would have scored mid 50's to just barely scratching 60 in actual competition. But lets hope they realize this. I thought P/O were underscored. They had the most polished and convincing SD, to me.

Overall while the skating was very clean and polished, the programs really lacked variety and in some cases proper interpretation. I hope also H/D are not blindsided by those scores because there was no visible change of rhythm or character for their partial step sequence and this could be a major problem in the coming season.
But I do think the rules and guidelines given by the ISU this year for the SD are partly to blame.

 

[Snow63]

I don't worry about H/D and P/I scores, each season starts the same, average teams get high scores. Nothing new here, and I'm sure they understand this too.
Well, at least I/Z will have a very clear change of rhythm, that's for sure. I need to see it already, the wait is too long I don't see how their SD can be an average dance, it will be or one of the best dances of the season or the biggest catastrophe of the season. Let's pray for the best.
But I still think they're too new to experiment, I would have chosen something more safe (read: classic) for them.

 

[Alba]

H/D and P/I would have scored mid 50's to just barely scratching 60 in actual competition. But lets hope they realize this. I thought P/O were underscored. They had the most polished and convincing SD, to me.

P&I scored 64.68 for their SD. H&D 64.64: http://www.patinage.qc.ca/doc/resultats/CQE_2015/Det_26.pdf

But I do think the rules and guidelines given by the ISU this year for the SD are partly to blame.

I think so too.

I don't worry about H/D and P/I scores, each season starts the same, average teams get high scores. Nothing new here, and I'm sure they understand this too.

You would think that and I hope they do. C&L last season didn't, when they started getting that ridiculous over 70 score in Italy.

Well, at least I/Z will have a very clear change of rhythm, that's for sure. I need to see it already, the wait is too long I don't see how their SD can be an average dance, it will be or one of the best dances of the season or the biggest catastrophe of the season. Let's pray for the best.

That's my feeling too. Either will be a hit or a big miss.

 

[bramweld]

I don't worry about H/D and P/I scores, each season starts the same, average teams get high scores. Nothing new here, and I'm sure they understand this too.
Well, at least I/Z will have a very clear change of rhythm, that's for sure. I need to see it already, the wait is too long I don't see how their SD can be an average dance, it will be or one of the best dances of the season or the biggest catastrophe of the season. Let's pray for the best.
But I still think they're too new to experiment, I would have chosen something more safe (read: classic) for them.

Catastrophe hardly likely, these two are way too professional for that. Their music choice though unusual fits the rules to a T.

 

[chameleon]

Honestly, I get the feeling that their SD will just be fine. Not a huge success, not a disaster.

 

[Snow63]

You would think that and I hope they do. C&L last season didn't, when they started getting that ridiculous over 70 score in Italy.

Imagine if W/P would have skated there they would get what, 80 points for their SD?
I wonder if any of the top 3 teams (C/B, W/P and P/C) will choose something risky. I'm ready to bet all of them will do a classic waltz. They're too smart to risk.

 

[chameleon]

P/C will probably do a modern waltz, based on both their past programs and the other waltzes by D/L.

 

[Snow63]

P/C will probably do a modern waltz, based on both their past programs and the other waltzes by D/L.

Yes, you're probably right about P/C.

 

[Tanka]

I so agree with you, Alba. You have no idea. The
And I'm afraid Elena and Ruslan will be right there with H/D. I strongly disapprove their music choice. Strongly. :disapp: I actually think these SD'es all have to get a deduction and pattern pelality for music choice (or whatever it is called)

I would agree with your disapproval had Elena and Ruslan chosen this music for compulsory dance. But short dance is not a waltz only but a mixture of many things. They cannot start with dancing classic waltz then stop, change and continue with what what they feel suits them best now. And they definitely won't be comfortable with all classical program to wrap the classical waltz.
Somebody to Love fits waltz pattern and if they make it seem whole with Rock you they'll be fine. 30 classical short dances may be even more boring than 30 Spanish dances, some diversity is needed.

I'm more concerned with Frida music because I cannot make myself like it. I listened and listened and even watches Frida programs by other skaters and there wasn't a piece of music that'd make me exclaim "Wow, I was them to use it!"

 

[Alba]

Honestly, I get the feeling that their SD will just be fine. Not a huge success, not a disaster.

I don't know. My idea is that choosing those two pieces from Queen and be just fine it does translate in quite a disaster in my book. A classical music might hide a bad program (if that makes sense) and be just fine, okay, because the music helps you and does half of the job. The purpose of choosing a non classical piece, and Queen, is to make something special and if that doesn't work I'm afraid it's bad.

I wonder if any of the top 3 teams (C/B, W/P and P/C) will choose something risky. I'm ready to bet all of them will do a classic waltz. They're too smart to risk.

My feeling is that P&C will go with "modern" too.

I'm more concerned with Frida music because I cannot make myself like it. I listened and listened and even watches Frida programs by other skaters and there wasn't a piece of music that'd make me exclaim "Wow, I was them to use it!"

I like Frida myself but regardless of whether we like the music or not the FD is longer and you have more liberty to create. There is a concept, they have a story to tell, a theme, and the music suits that theme. What you need for the FD is good choreo and interpretation. If you have these two you have a great program.
For example, Delobel & Schoenfelder 2008 FD was a great program and not because of the music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3siEAJZ-IKM

 

[bramweld]

I don't know. My idea is that choosing those two pieces from Queen and be just fine it does translate in quite a disaster in my book. A classical music might hide a bad program (if that makes sense) and be just fine, okay, because the music helps you and does half of the job. The purpose of choosing a non classical piece, and Queen, is to make something special and if that doesn't work I'm afraid it's bad.

I would agree with you if this team had been together longer and had experimented and knew this wouldn't work for them. For years and years we complain how skaters always play it safe and never step out of the box. Lena and Ruslan are doing it with both their dances and we gripe. Now I understand why most athletes play it safe. IMHO, I think we should give them some credit for trying and at least hope that it works. Given what I've seen already, once the setting is interesting this should or could be a good vehicle for them. Have we forgotten the skating skills they displayed in Carmen? If this were an Olympic year I'd be concerned, but as it is only the second season in the quad, I say go for it. Who knows it could be GREAT !!!! And if they fail, at least they tried and you can be sure they will earn the TES SD minimum right?

 

[Snow63]

I would agree with your disapproval had Elena and Ruslan chosen this music for compulsory dance. But short dance is not a waltz only but a mixture of many things. They cannot start with dancing classic waltz then stop, change and continue with what what they feel suits them best now. And they definitely won't be comfortable with all classical program to wrap the classical waltz.
Somebody to Love fits waltz pattern and if they make it seem whole with Rock you they'll be fine. 30 classical short dances may be even more boring than 30 Spanish dances, some diversity is needed.

I'm more concerned with Frida music because I cannot make myself like it. I listened and listened and even watches Frida programs by other skaters and there wasn't a piece of music that'd make me exclaim "Wow, I was them to use it!"

I'm not saying all waltzes should be classic, I'm saying all waltzes should be waltzes. They should have a waltz feeling in them, which H/D waltz didn't have.
I think Frida fd will be good, it's suits them just fine.

 

[bramweld]

I'm not saying all waltzes should be classic, I'm saying all waltzes should be waltzes. They should have a waltz feeling in them, which H/D waltz didn't have.
I think Frida fd will be good, it's suits them just fine.

Exactly, P/O went modern but their waltz felt as it should and then they segued nicely into a march. It boggles the mind that they didn't win the S/D. H/D program looks like a beautiful exhibition not a competitive SD given the rules stipulated for this years dance.

 

[Tanka]

I like Frida myself but regardless of whether we like the music or not the FD is longer and you have more liberty to create. There is a concept, they have a story to tell, a theme, and the music suits that theme. What you need for the FD is good choreo and interpretation. If you have these two you have a great program.

I think that music is equally important for both programs. Free dance is longer than short and cannot be all hidden with music, but boring music makes long dance even more boring unless the choreography is really superb and is delivered flawlessly. And IZ still have time gap, they've had too little time together compared to other pairs.

I like the idea of them performing Frida. But I cannot imagine this movie's music sound greatly at the stadium to help them. I'll be happy to prove wrong.

 

[Alba]

I would agree with you if this team had been together longer and had experimented and knew this wouldn't work for them. For years and years we complain how skaters always play it safe and never step out of the box. Lena and Ruslan are doing it with both their dances and we gripe. Now I understand why most athletes play it safe. IMHO, I think we should give them some credit for trying and at least hope that it works. Given what I've seen already, once the setting is interesting this should or could be a good vehicle for them. Have we forgotten the skating skills they displayed in Carmen? If this were an Olympic year I'd be concerned, but as it is only the second season in the quad, I say go for it. Who knows it could be GREAT !!!! And if they fail, at least they tried and you can be sure they will earn the TES SD minimum right?

I'm not judging their program. I have not seen it yet. My point was that choosing something different and not very conventional the result will be the same, for better or for worse. I doubt you can have just an "okay" result.
As for taking risks and playing safe etc. yeah, I agree. However, I do not agree that just thinking outside the box without delivering is good enough. I'm speaking in general now, not referring to I&Z. Let's leave them out for a moment. Zhiganshina&Gazsi always thought outside the box. Some were good and some were not. This happens for any kind of programs obviously, so it's not like thinking outside the box automatically means it's a good idea.

I think that music is equally important for both programs. Free dance is longer than short and cannot be all hidden with music, but boring music makes long dance even more boring unless the choreography is really superb and is delivered flawlessly. And IZ still have time gap, they've had too little time together compared to other pairs.

I never said that music is not important in the FD. I said they have more liberty to create. They have a theme and a very specific story to tell and that music suits the story and that you need a great choreo and delivered flawlessly, yes. Well, that's true for any great program. Recently I saw some video clips of a program (I'm not going to say which program because it was sent to me in private and it was a practice). I hate that music. It's an old religious music, boring to hell. Watching the program and the execution though the result was really good, to my surprise. It created a mood and a flow which was great.

 

[Tanka]

I'm not saying all waltzes should be classic, I'm saying all waltzes should be waltzes. They should have a waltz feeling in them, which H/D waltz didn't have.

I wasn't talking about H/D, IZ is another team and they have other coaches, other choreographers and other everything. I understand your concern but until we see the dance it's too early to apply H/D's music experience. I don't think that only Prokofiev's music can make a waltz feeling, I can easily imagine a pair waltzing to Somebody to Love. Well, my imagination doesn't mean anything but I don't think this music itself can spoil the dance.

 

[Snow63]

I don't think that only Prokofiev's music can make a waltz feeling, I can easily imagine a pair waltzing to Somebody to Love. Well, my imagination doesn't mean anything but I don't think this music itself can spoil the dance.

Okaaaay. Now you're stretching my words, how nice of you. I never said or never meant this. I'm glad you approve their choice, let's hope it will turn out to be a good dance.

 

[Snow63]

I remember I wasn't happy about B/S choice of music from Chess for their waltz. In the end I think it is their best SD to date, so who knows, maybe they will surprise me.

Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuZF-u4-f2A