Elena Ilinykh & Ruslan Zhiganshin

[Alba]

I posted this before, but while I think Frida is a masterpiece, I think it might be too 'subtle' for some of the judges. Unfortunately S/K are the example that come immediately to mind hwell: but, for example, their FD is very simple and obvious and easy to understand. In fact, they are hitting you over the head with it. It is a piece where there is a man, and woman, and love, and that's that. There's no need to think more deeply about it, it's all right there in a neat, simple little package. C/L who I really like are the same- light, fun, romantic piece with a lot of energy, no thinking involved. W/P have a program that is a bit harder to get if you are really invested in trying to 'get' things, but I think the overall theme is pretty obvious- despair and darkness. Then there's G/F's Schindler's list program where their costumes scream 'concentration camp' and every expression screams 'despair of the Holocaust' (I realize that might sound slightly disrespectful of the holocaust and if so that's mot my intention but nothing about that program is subtle).

Frida requires more of an investment, and I do think is harder to appreciate on a first viewing. That is because there is a lot going on in the dance, both in terms of themes and moods, in terms of the cohesive story they are trying to present, and in terms of the movements themselves. I think there is a lot more there than in these other dances, and a lot more to appreciate too, but it also requires more investment of energy and concentration to do so. I think some judges might not expect to have to expend this kind of energy, and therefore might not 'get' the program, again, especially if they truly are seeing it for the first time at the competition, which, unbelievable as this is to us, some of them probably are (though at Nationals guaranteed that won't be the case so we'll see there). So I do think that this might be going on and the judges want something easier to digest and understand. I think that's a pity and their loss though.

Humm...I get this. You might have a point but If that's the case I'll be damned If I would change it, medal or not.:noshake:

 

[tulosai]

Humm...that I get. If that's the case though I'll be damned If I would change it, medal or not.

Oh I completely agree. I think it would be absolutely terrible if they changed it, not just because it's my favorite program this year, but because I really feel it is pushing them both to grow as skaters and that is what is most important in the long run. I hope as the season goes on and as judges see it more and them become more consistent with it/able to tell the story even better because they are less worried about the technical, the scores will go up as they should.

 

[Marta25]

Humm...that I get. If that's the case though I'll be damned If I would change it, medal or not.

I don`t think they are going to change Frida. From their interviews, I get that they love their FD and in the end this kind of FD will push them to become better skaters. As I understood it the SD was much harder for them to translate to the ice and it seems like most judges feel the same way.

 

[Alba]

Oh I completely agree. I think it would be absolutely terrible if they changed it, not just because it's my favorite program this year, but because I really feel it is pushing them both to grow as skaters and that is what is most important in the long run.

From their interviews, I get that they love their FD and in the end this kind of FD will push them to become better skaters.

This! :thumbsup:

It's funny though because if there is a difficult program to get and it has a much more difficult concept behind it is Stolbova&Klimov FS, which I adore by the way, and yet judges in Pairs don't seem to have problems with getting it.
I think ID judges mindset has become as narrowed as you can get when they should be the opposite, when it comes to concept and choreography.

One thing I would absolutely change though is Elena's dress. I don't think the style, the cutting, and the colours are doing her any good. Loved the hairstyle in Moscow.

 

[bramweld]

Well, we're IZ fans, so of course we see it as an injustice... whether we are right or not...I remember SK fans thinking the same about SK scores at Russian Nationals last year, or Yuna Kim's fans about the Olympics etc etc.... the list is endless.
Ultimately, the judges are seeing or not seeing something... not everything is a conspiracy, and there are elements of both IZ dances this year that may not appeal to the judges.

We'll just have to see how the program develops and if the judges like it better.

I just can't get enough of this dance from I/Z. I hope they continue to polish it as nothing came close to them this weekend, IMHO. That was the FD of COR 2015 for me.

 

[bramweld]

Humm...I get this. You might have a point but If that's the case I'll be damned If I would change it, medal or not.:noshake:

The trajectory that dance has made from test skates is very, very good. There is no need to change it. Let them continue to polish their skills. In time enough their brilliance will be clear to everyone.

 

[Tanka]

I don't think that changing programs is a good idea. They can't just change the music, they'll need to change a whole program and they don't have months to practice it which will make them too prone to mistakes. Do you want them to skate worse than in September while all other teams have their programs polished? They'll lose much more than they will get. And they need to show that they can be stable whether the judges like their music choice or nor.

 

[Alba]

I don't think that changing programs is a good idea. They can't just change the music, they'll need to change a whole program and they don't have months to practice it which will make them too prone to mistakes. Do you want them to skate worse than in September while all other teams have their programs polished? They'll lose much more than they will get. And they need to show that they can be stable whether the judges like their music choice or nor.

I think we are all saying they shouldn't, and not just because there is no time but because Frida is WONDERFUL and as I said, damned if they change it. Whether judges like it or not.

 

[Tanka]

Somebody's video from Gala:
1. https://youtu.be/EiLxbBaxjPw
2. https://youtu.be/pFbKg0ZSWCE

 

[Alba]

We were able to show the whole dance of two people with all the feelings

Sorry if this was already posted. What is Elena saying about the levels and steps?

 

[bramweld]

We were able to show the whole dance of two people with all the feelings

Sorry if this was already posted. What is Elena saying about the levels and steps?

She's glad they got level 3 for both step sequences. They have to have perfect control to get level 4's. They are honored to get these levels for the step sequences.

 

[tvuckic16]

Like what? What's there missing and so difficult to get in Frida? While I can see why someone would not like the SD, although I do a lot, I really do not understand what's wrong with the FD.

Personally, nothing. The only possible complaint I might have about Frida is that the music is demanding in the sense that it requires you to be ON to carry the performance because it is not very danceable. Technically and choreographically I think Frida is wonderful, a real masterpiece, but maybe the music is not as engaging? I don't know...that's the only thing I can think of that is not making them a hit to score like WP.

 

[Tanka]

We were able to show the whole dance of two people with all the feelings

Sorry if this was already posted. What is Elena saying about the levels and steps?

Elena:
Just level 3 for step sequences? It's very honorable for a skater to get level 3 for a step sequences, especially in the beginning of the season. Any slight shake - and there's no level 4. I'm glad we got 3 and not 2 for steps.

 

[bramweld]

Well the same was said of D/W and their tango in 2011. They had to bring it for the program to work. During the GP season they were endlessly criticized that this kind of dance couldn't work for them, no way they could pull it off, blah, blah, blah. They had their stumbles and mistakes as well. But by worlds they were quite impressive with it, in fact they won worlds that year. This signaled the beginning of a whole new level of sophistication and difficulty for them, the same that Frida could do for I/Z. So I say let their eyes burn, let them work. Kustarova, Alexeeva and Najarro did great work with this programme not to mention Riabanina.

 

[tvuckic16]

Well the same was said of D/W and their tango in 2011. They had to bring it for the program to work. During the GP season they were endlessly criticized that this kind of dance couldn't work for them, no way they could pull it off, blah, blah, blah. They had their stumbles and mistakes as well. But by worlds they were quite impressive with it, in fact they won worlds that year. This signaled the beginning of a whole new level of sophistication and difficulty for them, the same that Frida could do for I/Z. So I say let their eyes burn, let them work. Kustarova, Alexeeva and Najarro did great work with this programme not to mention Riabanina.

I thought DW won gold at the GP final that season...they didn't have to wait till Worlds. So any criticism there might have been about their program during the GP was not supported by results, since they won the GP final. That is not the case here for IZ.

I am not saying that IZ can't win by the end of the season, just that the comparison with DW for that season is not appropriate since DW won the GP.

I agree however that IZ just need to work to get things polished even more and things could turn for them.

 

[lauravvv]

I thought DW won gold at the GP final that season...they didn't have to wait till Worlds. So any criticism there might have been about their program during the GP was not supported by results, since they won the GP final. That is not the case here for IZ.

I am not saying that IZ can't win by the end of the season, just that the comparison with DW for that season is not appropriate since DW won the GP

Well, Virtue/Moir were not at the GPF that season. Who else Davis/White could have lost to? The era when they could loose to anyone else besides Virtue/Moir (with any program) had ended by then. Sure, the situation is different for I/Z anyway.

 

[Alba]

Well, Virtue/Moir were not at the GPF that season. Who else Davis/White could have lost to? The era when they could loose to anyone else besides Virtue/Moir (with any program) had ended by then. Sure, the situation is different for I/Z anyway.

Talking about VM I know it's not exactly the same but judges not liking Frida as much as I thought they would, reminded me their reaction to VM Carmen. That program was a real masterpiece. For me that was the best program of all times in ID and it still remains today. Yet, the judges didn't seem to fully appreciate that program which was such a pity and still puzzles me today.

 

[uhh]

The judges did appreciate it in China, even though it wasn't skated that well. They were let down by the tech side, but they got 51+ PCS, it was at the time the highest PCS a Russian team had got on the GP this year. What happened this weekend has in my opinion less to do with the program and more to do with the position they were in after the SD (and maybe top Russian team politics, but what can they do about that?). If you just looked at the scores, the judges are saying that their SS regressed by half a point, and that's just not the case. It's hard to assess much from this weekend because of the SD problem, but I am sure that if they had skated the exact same FD but starting from 3rd instead of 6th after the SD they would have got very different scores.

 

[bramweld]

The judges did appreciate it in China, even though it wasn't skated that well. They were let down by the tech side, but they got 51+ PCS, it was at the time the highest PCS a Russian team had got on the GP this year. What happened this weekend has in my opinion less to do with the program and more to do with the position they were in after the SD (and maybe top Russian team politics, but what can they do about that?). If you just looked at the scores, the judges are saying that their SS regressed by half a point, and that's just not the case. It's hard to assess much from this weekend because of the SD problem, but I am sure that if they had skated the exact same FD but starting from 3rd instead of 6th after the SD they would have got very different scores.

With this I am in total agreement. So many couldn't have seen their brilliance this weekend for it not to be so. The fed needed to push a team to the GPF so they did. End of story. Now they get to train in peace and quiet for Nationals. They have it pretty good in my book.

 

[Marta25]

Talking about VM I know it's not exactly the same but judges not liking Frida as much as I thought they would, reminded me their reaction to VM Carmen. That program was a real masterpiece. For me that was the best program of all times in ID and it still remains today. Yet, the judges didn't seem to fully appreciate that program which was such a pity and still puzzles me today.

V/M actually received pretty good PCS for their Carmen. It was the TES that made problems, which a lot of people attributed to the absence of Igor after the split between him and Marina.

I/Z`s PCS in China was really good, especially for Choreography and Interpretation. I think going forward it will be essential for them to skate clean. Their TES for the FD was pretty good, the highest they ever received in an international competition with the exception of Saransk. The one thing they have to improve are their GOE for their two step sequences, which are way to low. I think their coaching team changed both step sequences completely from last year, whereas the other teams are pretty much using the same step sequences for several years. Maybe they still need time to get comfortable with it, because last year they were able to get a +2 for their sequences, now they barely crack the +1.