Emily Samuelson and Evan Bates split up

[Kitt]

Hernando and binthere
I am not "blaming" the Shibs. Personally, I find them adorable. I was just speculating on 2 couples motives for breaking up, but we will never know.

I really loved Chock/Zuerlein's Cabaret program and am baffled they did not score higher. And maybe they are too.

 

[gmyers]

If a team is talented and clean and did not medal like the shibs or come close that is bad. Now all young talents can medal and if the judges are not giving you scores like the shibs that is a message. These splits are about the message sent by giving the shibs the bronze medal at the ages of 10 and 11 jk 17 and 18

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

If a team is talented and clean and did not medal like the shibs or come close that is bad. Now all young talents can medal and if the judges are not giving you scores like the shibs that is a message. These splits are about the message sent by giving the shibs the bronze medal at the ages of 10 and 11 jk 17 and 18

I guess I question your assertion for the following reasons....

1. Of the three teams (C/Z, S/B, C/P), only one member (Greg Zuerlein) has cited retirement. The rest are either actively looking for new partners (Crone, Poirier, Chock) or seem open to the idea (S/B). It makes no sense - none, zip, zero - for an athlete to say: "well, didn't medal with that person, lets try someone else".

2. In the case of these athletes, we're talking about athletes who exist in the upper echelon of their sport - easily top twenty. The chances of them finding someone as good as they are... not all that great.

3. When the judges "told" Davis/White that they weren't good enough to beat an injured D/S, a Linichuked B/A and a struggling V/M at Worlds 2009, did they say "Well, the judges don't like us. Let's find someone new, and oh, those twelve years don't outweigh that message?" Nope. They used that as motivation, attacked the next season with a vigour that a marauding bull would back down from and had their best season ever. When B/A missed the 2008 podium by a quarter and there were thoughts that their coaches were putting them out to pasture, what did they do? They found a new coach and worked their asses off to improve and had their best worlds result in four years. That's what high level athletes do. That's why they're high level athletes. They fight.

 

[Antilles]

This sucks. They were a lovely team. Add me to the list of those who hope Emily gets a new partner soon. Interesting that thearticle also states that V&M have still not decided yet whether they will compete next year.

 

[fanniewaters]

So. C/Z announce split several weeks ago as he retires while she will seek another partner. Then S/B split ("several weeks ago") with similarly timed speculation that Chock/Bates are to partner.

Separate from my disappointment in another young team breaking up and in not seeing S/B skate together again, MY first thought frankly is poor Emily. She stood by her injured long-time partner, sitting out the season and training for his return, then this happens. Something definitely does not "smell" right. :disapp:

 

[gmyers]

I guess I question your assertion for the following reasons....

1. Of the three teams (C/Z, S/B, C/P), only one member (Greg Zuerlein) has cited retirement. The rest are either actively looking for new partners (Crone, Poirier, Chock) or seem open to the idea (S/B). It makes no sense - none, zip, zero - for an athlete to say: "well, didn't medal with that person, lets try someone else".

2. In the case of these athletes, we're talking about athletes who exist in the upper echelon of their sport - easily top twenty. The chances of them finding someone as good as they are... not all that great.

3. When the judges "told" Davis/White that they weren't good enough to beat an injured D/S, a Linichuked B/A and a struggling V/M at Worlds 2009, did they say "Well, the judges don't like us. Let's find someone new, and oh, those twelve years don't outweigh that message?" Nope. They used that as motivation, attacked the next season with a vigour that a marauding bull would back down from and had their best season ever. When B/A missed the 2008 podium by a quarter and there were thoughts that their coaches were putting them out to pasture, what did they do? They found a new coach and worked their asses off to improve and had their best worlds result in four years. That's what high level athletes do. That's why they're high level athletes. They fight.

Lots of good points. That they teams could fight together and work toward future success but that was before brand new senior team Shibs won bronze. They were told immediately right out of the gate. First time in senior worlds first senior season "you are medal caliber. final group caliber. Right behind P/B" And then with their PCS and GOE and technical skills. One mistake. A big one by P/B put them on the podium. There is now almost no motivation to stick wih the same person for years in seniors. A first year senior team can be world bronze medalists.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Man, you really hate the Shibs.

 

[Tinymavy15]

This sucks. They were a lovely team. Add me to the list of those who hope Emily gets a new partner soon. Interesting that thearticle also states that V&M have still not decided yet whether they will compete next year.

How interesting. I for some reason thought it was a given considering how hard they had to fight back from Tessa's surgery and the competitive fire they seemed to get after placing 2nd at worlds. I thought that after this rough season they would commit to Sochi.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

How interesting. I for some reason thought it was a given considering how hard they had to fight back from Tessa's surgery and the competitive fire they seemed to get after placing 2nd at worlds. I thought that after this rough season they would commit to Sochi.

They are working on new programs, but I think they realize the challenge and I wonder if that fight from Tessa's surgery is complete.

 

[janetfan]

Man, you really hate the Shibs.

What's interesting is that I have not read any comments that say the "Shibs are not really good" or that "the Shibs were overmarked."

Most of the comments are more along the line of "how dare such a young team win a medal at Worlds."

Sadly this is the legacy of Ice Dancing from the other side of the pond and I do think the CoP has done alot to make Ice Dancing not just more fair but also more of a sport.

I really like watching many of the dance teams even if I am somewhat clueless about how they should be scored.

That said, I really enjoy watching the Shibs and this team will get me, a longtime "singles fan" watching more Ice Dancning next season.

My favorites at the moment are V/M and going back in time it would be T/D and the fabuloulsy UNIQUE Duchesnays.

I have never bought into the Russo/Eastern Euro style of ice dancing because i find it seriously dated and never very original. So much of it is all the same and was never of much interest to me. I get it, you are imitating ballroom dancing from the 30's and you are pretending to be in love zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I happen to be a big fan of Adelina. Although she is a singles skater I somehow doubt certain posters will object if she wins medals next season in the GP or in her first eligible season as a senior skater at Euros/Worlds.

Scoring and judging in any sport should always be about how an athlete performs and never about how many years they have been on the circuit.
That type of thinking is so unsporting and belongs in the world of pageants.

 

[NorthernDancers]

What's interesting is that I have not read any comments that say the "Shibs are not really good" or that "the Shibs were overmarked."

Most of the comments are more along the line of "how dare such a young team win a medal at Worlds."

Sadly this is the legacy of Ice Dancing from the other side of the pond and I do think the CoP has done alot to make Ice Dancing not just more fair but also more of a sport.

I really like watching many of the dance teams even if I am somewhat clueless about how they should be scored.

That said, I really enjoy watching the Shibs and this team will get me, a longtime "singles fan" watching more Ice Dancning next season.

My favorites at the moment are V/M and going back in time it would be T/D and the fabuloulsy UNIQUE Duchesnays.

I have never bought into the Russo/Eastern Euro style of ice dancing because i find it seriously dated and never very original. So much of it is all the same and was never of much interest to me. I get it, you are imitating ballroom dancing from the 30's and you are pretending to be in love zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

I happen to be a big fan of Adelina. Although she is a singles skater I somehow doubt certain posters will object if she wins medals next season in the GP or in her first eligible season as a senior skater at Euros/Worlds.

Scoring and judging in any sport should always be about how an athlete performs and never about how many years they have been on the circuit.
That type of thinking is so unsporting and belongs in the world of pageants.

Thank you for that. I completely agree, and the idea of having to "put in your time" before winning is ridiculous when wanting to be treated as sport. You either skate well according to measured standards or you don't. The PCS mark has the ability to separate the intangible elements like style, interpretation, musicality, originality, etc. (BTW, this is true of most judged sports like ski moguls, gymnastics, synchro swimming, etc.).

Right now, we have a bunch of really young teams that have achieved success very early. V/M are a once in a generation team. But they are not new together. They've been skating together since they were children. They have a unique and powerful mix of being perfectly sized for each other since childhood, tons of chemistry, strong work ethic, solid friendship and mutual respect, outstanding coaching when they were young which gives them an edge even today, current coaches/choreographer that understands their strengths and weaknesses and continually gives them outstanding programs for success. The Shibs have not suddenly appeared out of nowhere. They've been seeing success for many years. They are very, very good, and looking at potential, the closest team to achieve the level of V/M in the future. 4th at JW is not a tragedy, either. D/W the same thing. When I look at some of the past teams, one of my favourites outside of North America is D/S. They were Senior competitors for 10 years before they won their World title, never mind all the years at Junior. Dubreil/Lauzon, Wing/Lowe, Bourne/Kraatz all had the same experience. Some really bad years at Senior before finding their niche and achieving success. It took them that much time to gel together as a team in maturity, unison, interpretation of music, etc. A lot of stars aligned for Shibs this year. They had a tremendous vehicle that made their youth their strength. Other teams made some big mistakes. They were solid technically.

The issue with too many teams is that they do not understand that not everyone is going to have the set of circumstances required to achieve what is perceived to be by some as immediate success. That doesn't mean they will never achieve success. In fact, it is unusual that a young team will achieve instant success. I admire W/P for having the foresight to understand that they have to take disappointment and turn it into hard work, which results in improvement, and now they are 5th in the world. With age and maturity comes a new kind of expression. It is amazing to watch the performances of Dubreil/Lauzon and Delobel/Shoenfelder in those last few years. It truly is the merging of incredible technical skill, with beautiful art. Some of these young people need to put themselves and their current situations in context, figure out how to work better as a team, and then focus on the work and improving and innovating the sport. Thanks to CoP, when all of those things come together in a solid technical delivery with wonderful PCS, they will find themselves in winning spots. Every one of those big teams that have split have the potential to achieve the success they desire over time.

 

[clairecloutier]

I'm pretty surprised about Emily and Evan splitting up. It seemed like their partnership was all upside at this point. Except for the setback of Evan's injury, everything just looked so positive. They were a young team but already very strong technically, with good unison and partnering, and good results already on the world level. If it hadn't been for the injury this year, they'd certainly have won GP medals at least. They would only have improved artistically. Plus, they were so well matched physically--both tall, elegant skaters with excellent lines. It's not easy to find a partner who matches you so well physically.

That to me was the problem with Chock/Zuerlein. Although they did really well this season, ultimately they just didn't seem that well matched. Greg seemed a little short and slim for Madison, plus he didn't project as much personality as her on ice. Madison isn't a tall skater but she has a big personality, so she needs someone to match that.

I wasn't that surprised in the end about Chock/Zuerlein splitting up, but I am surprised about Emily/Evan. And if Evan and Madison team up, as per the rumors, I just don't know. As much as I like Madison, it's hard for me to imagine her matching up with Evan as well as Emily did.

These breakups definitely open the door for Kreingkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt. I liked them at Nationals last year and will be interested to see if they can step it up further this year.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Who am I talking about? This new-to-senior competitor placed fourth after the short. However, people ahead of this competitor made mistakes in the free and consequently, this competitor moved up to third.

I could be talking about the Shibutanis. I could also be talking about Artur Gachinski. Right down to the complaints about PCS!

 

[blue dog]

Who am I talking about? This new-to-senior competitor placed fourth after the short. However, people ahead of this competitor made mistakes in the free and consequently, this competitor moved up to third.

I could be talking about the Shibutanis. I could also be talking about Artur Gachinski. Right down to the complaints about PCS!

IP, were you around when a skater went from fourth to win the Olympic gold, beating the two favourites? The old board was like a warzone!

 

[BackStage Barbie]

Chock/Bates is a horrible idea. He could never match her ability to chew up scenery.

 

[blue dog]

Chock/Bates is a horrible idea. He could never match her ability to chew up scenery.

How about Chock/Samuelson?

 

[BackStage Barbie]

How about Chock/Samuelson?

Hmm I don't know who would do the lifting.

 

[pangtongfan]

Samuelson & Bates actually saw a slight decline in the 09/2010 season. They were passed by a number of teams, albeit some who are retired or split up themselves now. Then missing a whole season by injury, and the Shibutanis rise. Depending on their goals I wouldnt neccessarily agree their future looked all rosy at this point.

That said if they want to continue competitive skating they were best to stay together and see if they could make a comeback. I doubt very much either will do better with someone else.

 

[Tinymavy15]

That said if they want to continue competitive skating they were best to stay together and see if they could make a comeback. I doubt very much either will do better with someone else.

maybe they don't want to keep skating. They are both college students so maybe they just want to focus on academics and their careers right now.

 

[clairecloutier]

maybe they don't want to keep skating. They are both college students so maybe they just want to focus on academics and their careers right now.

Both of them are seeking new partners. They're not retiring. The only dancer in the recent breakups who's announced retirement is Greg Zuerlein.

Pangtongfan, I agree Samuelson/Bates' 2010 season was actually a little disappointing, especially at Worlds 2010 where they were passed by Crone/Poirier and others. And then missing the 2011 season was a real blow--because it was actually a very important season for younger teams to make a move in the rankings (as shown by the success of the Shibs and Weaver/Poje). So yes, there were some question marks for them. However, I still think their best chance of success was staying together.

As to the rumored Chock/Bates pairing . . . Evan Bates is listed as 6'2" in height whereas Madison Chock is only 5'1". That's a big height difference--perfect for pairs, but less so for dance. Now, Emily Samuelson is 5'4", only 3 inches taller than Madi (sp?), so maybe it could work with Evan/Madi, but I just don't know. Considering the differences in their height, style, and expressiveness, I'm not sure.

Maybe Evan should switch to pairs!! The U.S. could certainly use some more tall, talented pairs men!!