Figure Skating in Australia

[karne]

What is going on???
How can the ISU change a protocol in an ISU Challenger event after the victory ceremony that is not a mathematical error? The protocol now has 3S< For Kailani Craine's 3 jump combo. If they called the "double" clean and missed the third rotation how can the jump now be under rotated? Shouldn't there be some official explanation from ISU for changing the result? Calling the jump clean 3S most likely would have changed overall placings??

Interesting note, the final placing and detailed results have been removed.

My guess is that the initial entry of "2S" was a data entry error. These things happen from time to time. It was probably an honest mistake. It has now been corrected. The ISU generally doesn't explain such corrections and to be honest this event was so shambolically organised that I'm unsurprised we had an error of this type.

Probably they called double Salchow real time, went back, looked at it, realised it was a 3S<, and then for whatever reason, the change did not occur in the system. It's frustrating and annoying, especially since the judging times at GS seemed to be inordinately long, that such a thing has happened, but I don't think it actually changed anything bar the numbers.

I am surprised it took them so long to correct it. In other events such corrections are usually picked up before the medal ceremony.

 

[essence_of_soy]

Also, we have to remember that they are a new pair team. It takes a couple years of work for a couple to truly mesh and become a "True" pair team, if you get what I mean. They are looking for 2018 but we probably won't see their full potential at least the start of the next olympic cycle. They probably are also working at finding a way to communicate better (especially when expressing what's on each other's minds/emotions/feelings/opinions) with each other despite the obvious language barrier- this will be important in building trust between them.

And yes the spotlight. Finlandia and The Junior Grand Prix Final were probably the biggest stages either skaters ever competed in, so it is overwhelming not to notice the bright lights, and that there are more eyes in the arena and on TV watching you compete. Also, the would've been inspired, as well as intimidated a little by seeing the other top pairs competitors display a skating level and quality that they are yet to reach.

Good points. As Ted Barton said of their free skate in Tallinn, this pair has a very promising future.

The difference between their first and second JGP event efforts were like night and day. They were like a different team.

Since then, they have added more difficulty to their programs, replacing the throw triple toe with a throw triple lutz, and the side by side double axels with triple salchows.

I'm pretty sure I saw Harley holding an asthmatic inhaler in the Kiss & Cry at Nationals, so endurance is also going to be another factor in their training. Skaters at events don't have a lot of time to practice and run through their programs, either.

Adding to their last minute invite to the Junior Grand Prix Final, every event they have attended has carried more and more importance. It must be so hard switching back and forth between junior and senior competitions, with the short requiring side by side triple jumps, and the free skate an extra thirty seconds in length.

Watching the live stream early this morning, I am sure seeing the pair before them take that nasty fall in the lift must have rattled their focus as well.

Learning to cope with all of the distractions such as noisy crowds, fans, interviews, and the other skaters will be part of the learning curve. I can only imagine what a whirlwind journey this must be for them.

Great that his coaches had the foresight to pair him with such great match, and to keep him in the sport.

Australia is extremely lucky to have such amazing athletes to represent us.

 

[NanaPat]

I taught at a university, and grades, once submitted, could only be changed because of "clerical error". With the new grade, you had to submit "an explanation of the error, but not in detail". So explanations were along the lines of "a clerical error recording the final exam grade", "a clerical error calculating the final grade", "a clerical error calculating the average homework grade", etc. As long as you used those magic words "clerical error" and said what type of error, you were golden.

Change of figure skating marks seem similar. Marks can be corrected due to a clerical error. In this case, a clerical error in inputting (is that even a word?) the jump code. I believe there have been similar errors before.

As for the timing, the correction is probably done when it is called to the referee's attention. The faster it's caught, the faster it can be corrected.

 

[Icesk8r]

My guess is that the initial entry of "2S" was a data entry error. These things happen from time to time. It was probably an honest mistake. It has now been corrected. The ISU generally doesn't explain such corrections and to be honest this event was so shambolically organised that I'm unsurprised we had an error of this type.

Probably they called double Salchow real time, went back, looked at it, realised it was a 3S<, and then for whatever reason, the change did not occur in the system. It's frustrating and annoying, especially since the judging times at GS seemed to be inordinately long, that such a thing has happened, but I don't think it actually changed anything bar the numbers.

I am surprised it took them so long to correct it. In other events such corrections are usually picked up before the medal ceremony.

IF as you suggest, it was a data entry error why wasn't it picked up by TC or ATS who would have 3S written down on their papers before authorisation of elements. The data would have read 2S. It still begs the question why a 2S called clean turns into a 3S<. The landing of the jump didn't change. Before any results are posted, they have to be signed off by ref and TC, so this error obviously was brought to their attention after the results were posted which was after the medal presentation.

By changing to an under it just changes "numbers" but a clean 3S changes a place.

 

[karne]

Watching the live stream early this morning, I am sure seeing the pair before them take that nasty fall in the lift must have rattled their focus as well.

Oh christ, that lift fall...that could have been such a disaster and it did seem to rattle all the first-group pairs. At least Harley aborted the twist, rather than go into it when he wasn't sure and...yikes. this is why I'm a pairs chicken.

Change of figure skating marks seem similar. Marks can be corrected due to a clerical error. In this case, a clerical error in inputting (is that even a word?) the jump code. I believe there have been similar errors before.

As for the timing, the correction is probably done when it is called to the referee's attention. The faster it's caught, the faster it can be corrected.

More or less correct. IIRC this happened with Ross Miner at COR 2015 - one of his spin codes was put in wrong, and so originally Rippon had the bronze, but the error was corrected, and Ross got the bronze instead. I was never sure with that one whether Ross' team approached the referee or the TP caught it, because it was corrected really fast.

IF as you suggest, it was a data entry error why wasn't it picked up by TC or ATS who would have 3S written down on their papers before authorisation of elements. The data would have read 2S. It still begs the question why a 2S called clean turns into a 3S<. The landing of the jump didn't change. Before any results are posted, they have to be signed off by ref and TC, so this error obviously was brought to their attention after the results were posted which was after the medal presentation.

By changing to an under it just changes "numbers" but a clean 3S changes a place.

You would be amazed what human errors can do. Been there, done that. I remember reading back the correct abbreviation when the wrong one was in the computer once. Because I had read back the correct abbreviation, no-one realised until I did, right as the screen was about to vanish. That one had to be corrected later. It had been a long day, we were in a division of some forty skaters, and my brain just farted.

Where the UR 3S comes into it will depend on what the TP's style is. I've known some tech specs who'll call every jump clean but mark for review and then start on the URs and << after the program is finished. Others will call the < or << in real time during the program. Neither is right or wrong but I will admit the former method does tend to open up room for errors of this nature.. It could be that the tech spec called it 2S originally, it was corrected, and then missed in the read through.

Honestly, I don't know what happened here, but I am just trying to explain how usual errors of this type happen.

 

[Boniboy]

Oh christ, that lift fall...that could have been such a disaster and it did seem to rattle all the first-group pairs. At least Harley aborted the twist, rather than go into it when he wasn't sure and...yikes. this is why I'm a pairs chicken.



More or less correct. IIRC this happened with Ross Miner at COR 2015 - one of his spin codes was put in wrong, and so originally Rippon had the bronze, but the error was corrected, and Ross got the bronze instead. I was never sure with that one whether Ross' team approached the referee or the TP caught it, because it was corrected really fast.



You would be amazed what human errors can do. Been there, done that. I remember reading back the correct abbreviation when the wrong one was in the computer once. Because I had read back the correct abbreviation, no-one realised until I did, right as the screen was about to vanish. That one had to be corrected later. It had been a long day, we were in a division of some forty skaters, and my brain just farted.

Where the UR 3S comes into it will depend on what the TP's style is. I've known some tech specs who'll call every jump clean but mark for review and then start on the URs and << after the program is finished. Others will call the < or << in real time during the program. Neither is right or wrong but I will admit the former method does tend to open up room for errors of this nature.. It could be that the tech spec called it 2S originally, it was corrected, and then missed in the read through.

Honestly, I don't know what happened here, but I am just trying to explain how usual errors of this type happen.

So Karne are you a TS or a judge ?

 

[karne]

So Karne are you a TS or a judge ?

Neither. I am a skater who gives many many hours to the support of my sport as well as practice. I am a fan who loves and supports all of the Australian skaters.

My current dream: to see the Australian flag listed for the Team Event at Pyeongchang. Now, wouldn't that be something special?

 

[essence_of_soy]

My current dream: to see the Australian flag listed for the Team Event at Pyeongchang. Now, wouldn't that be something special?

From memory, it was very close between Australia and Great Britain for that 10th spot in the Sochi Team Event.

 

[karne]

From memory, it was very close between Australia and Great Britain for that 10th spot in the Sochi Team Event.

Yes, we were the first reserve team, I think it was a very small number of ranking points. But we have a stronger collective this time to earn points with, and the skaters are stronger in their development too. Four years has changed a lot.

 

[janav]

Does Alexandrovskaya have australian citizenship? Or will she have it in time for the Olympics?

 

[GF2445]

From memory, it was very close between Australia and Great Britain for that 10th spot in the Sochi Team Event.

It was close. We can probably beat the UK now, but during this cycle other nations have also become stronger- with South Korea having competitors in all disciplines now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Qualification

Lets calculate...the top 8 nations in 2014 will qualify without question
South Korea will probably qualify

Not spain or Kazakhstan (not enough skaters in enough disciplines)
That leaves Ukraine, Czech Republic and the UK.

So the key from here on in to make the team event is to beat Ukraine, Czech Republic and the UK.

 

[karne]

Does Alexandrovskaya have australian citizenship? Or will she have it in time for the Olympics?

I think it probable that she will get it in time.

 

[GF2445]

So here is the ISU pdf about olympic qualification, just to refresh your memory.


Also, the OWIA report about Golden Spin. Apparently, things were a little strange with interesting rotation calls, and slow release of the results.
...
http://www.owia.org/figure-skating-news/-challenger-series-wraps-up-for-brendan-and-kailani

 

[GF2445]

Brendan having fun on the harness. Before opening, Guess which jump.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BN7z9PPgOFO/?taken-by=br3ndan_&hl=en

 

[karne]

Brendan having fun on the harness. Before opening, Guess which jump.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BN7z9PPgOFO/?taken-by=br3ndan_&hl=en

I posted this one out in the main forum too

 

[GF2445]

I posted this one out in the main forum too

Thanks Karne.

In other news, some of you kight know that Australia, and other Oceanic nations were invited to compete as a guest at the Asian Winter Games. We won't be able to win medals, but it will give our skaters a taster of what it is like to compete at a multi-sport games. Also, it's in Sapporo, Japan- every skater today wishes to compete in the home of figure skating.
OWIA released Australia's reps. Since we are only guests, its likely that we were only allowed to send one skater/couple per discipline.

Our reps are.
Men- Brendan Kerry
Ladies- Kailani Craine
Pairs- Paris Stephens and Matthew Dodds (good choice as it gives Harley/Katia a chance to train, and it gives these two one last chance to attain those scores)
Ice Dance- Mathilda Friend and William Badaoui (the fruits of having a lot more ice dance teams now will have to come soon)

 

[karne]

Pairs- Paris Stephens and Matthew Dodds (good choice as it gives Harley/Katia a chance to train, and it gives these two one last chance to attain those scores)

?

I just had a quick look and it looks like the dates are 23-28 Feb - that's after 4CC. So getting the scores there would not help Paris and Matthew in any way.

 

[essence_of_soy]

Pairs- Paris Stephens and Matthew Dodds (good choice as it gives Harley/Katia a chance to train, and it gives these two one last chance to attain those scores)

Aren't Four Continents being held before the Asian Winter Games?

 

[Tastetherainbow]

The only other competition that Paris and Matthew can go to is the 2017 Mentor Torun Cup from January 10-15. And as of the moment, they are not listed in the entries list.

 

[karne]

The only other competition that Paris and Matthew can go to is the 2017 Mentor Torun Cup from January 10-15. And as of the moment, they are not listed in the entries list.

I think the list isn't complete, though. I hope they go, and I hope they get the scores. It would be so torturous to come within a few tenths of achieving Four Continents selection.