Final Lineup Confirmed for Campbell's Classic

[soogar]

....But I doubt the amount will be close to what top US skaters would get from US market.

Considering the millions of dollars that are paid to American movie stars to endorse products in Japan, I bet that a Japanese OGM will make MORE than an American OGM. In America, there's a hot today, cold tomorrow mentality because there are so many top athletes, OGMs in different sports, movie stars etc. There aren't that many OGM's in Japan and there hasn't been an OGM in figure skating from Japan either so the lucky skater will be in the spotlight for years if she chooses.

 

[gezando]

...It was Robin said she left the msg on Sarah's vmail, never heard it back from Sarah after......And again it was Robin's laudry 'dirty' in the air time after Sasha split with her that enhance the speculations of the characters of Robin or the relationships she had with her students

seriously, how many times have some friends asked us about a mutual friend and we replied ‘I left her a vmail, but did not heard” That is not airing dirty laundry. If people want to make Robin pay because she dares to talk about little Sashie’s training motivation , go ahead. But dissing her over such an innocent comment and dragging in Sarah oh please.

.......I agree someone above said that Frank was classier, general public didn't know it was Frank fired Tim until Tim revealed it himself.

Ah.. in a rush to diss Robin, bring in classy Frank. Frank talks about his pupils too, he had quite a lot to say about Chris Bowman. How about telling the press that he was not please with Michelle taking the senior test against his wishes?? Fact is coaches talk about their pupil’s training, lack of motivation, etc all the time. IMO it is not airing dirty laundry when they are just talking about work.

I diddn't read anywhere Sasha said an American skater should have an American coach. I heard it was TT said it on a TV interview at the worlds? ..... If Sasha said it, she certainly diddn't believe it when she was leaving TT shopping around for the coach. May be she only believed it after the fact.

Galina Cohen, Sasha Cohen and TT threw punches and counter punches at each other in front of the Russian press, we have a ballgame . So in your opinion is TT airing dirty laundry when she talks about Cohen staying up all night baking cookies then showed up at the rink the next day totally drained, and did not work that much. Was TT airing dirty laundry when she said Cohen made frequent shopping trips to Paris and compromised training time??

IMO when coaches talk about $$$ arrangement that may be flirting with airing dirty laundry. When Cohen left Nicks, he joked about “British mafia”, he talked about Cohen had to pay up the rest of her contract $$. That IMO is unnecessary. At the time the uber fans punched back by saying Nicks was too old to coach, he might xxxxxx anytime, then 3 years later, he is not too old to coach, in fact the ubers reverse their thinking and hail Nicks as the perfect coach.

 

[mzheng]

Japan is the world second largest economy, they do not have an OGM yet, I bet if one of their ladies win the OGM, it will be bigger than what a top USA lady skater will receive. OTOH, a OGM, like Kristi did not really receive that much endorsement.

I thought the case of Kristi had already been covered in another thread. She does not get as much endorsement as Nancy was because of she was an American born Japanese at the time there are still some Ward War II sentimental there?

They don't have OGM in FS, but they have OGM in other sports. You can compare the endorsements with starts in those sports. And last I heard, FS is not apopular sport in Japan anyway.

The bigger econormy is not necessary direct translate to bigger endorsement to sports. It only translate to some of their company have the ability to offer the bigger endorsement. But are they 'willing' to offer? In which fields they want to offer? Japanese industries usually are very 'calculated', they have different bussiness value than American does.

 

[gezando]

I thought the case of Kristi had already been covered in another thread. She does not get as much endorsement as Nancy was because of she was an American born Japanese at the time there are still some Ward War II sentimental there?

So the WWII sentiment evaporated in the past 10 yrs??

. And last I heard, FS is not apopular sport in Japan anyway.

Skating is not exactly America's #1 past time either. Some of my friends consider it as a non sport, just a beauty contest on ice.

Japanese industries usually are very 'calculated', they have different bussiness value than American does.

Is Citzen a Japanese watch?? I used to own a Citizen's watch, it looked superficially pretty, and flexible, but failed everytime in big events when I counted on it the most. If a Japanese lady wins the OGM and starts endorsing Citizen's, I maybe willing to give it a try again

 

[mzheng]

Considering the millions of dollars that are paid to American movie stars to endorse products in Japan, I bet that a Japanese OGM will make MORE than an American OGM. In America, there's a hot today, cold tomorrow mentality because there are so many top athletes, OGMs in different sports, movie stars etc. There aren't that many OGM's in Japan and there hasn't been an OGM in figure skating from Japan either so the lucky skater will be in the spotlight for years if she chooses.

Yeah, you just kind of proving my point. It is American movie starts, who got paid to endorse products in Japan.....All those endorsements from industry come down to where the bigest market is, and what type cosumer group you aim to. Believe or not, Japanese like blond, (same as chinese in china), if you got a forgein star to represent your product, you sell more of your products......Japan the 2nd largest econmey around the worlds, but exactly how big their in country market is? Last I checked they are also among those bigest export country. For last couple of decada their product filt up in china market....but no more.

ETA.
I'm only talk about the case of top of US skaters such as SC and MK. As original post that I responded.

 

[soogar]

Yeah, you just kind of proving my point. It is American movie starts, who got paid to endorse products in Japan.....All those endorsements from industry come down to where the bigest market is, and what type cosumer group you aim to. Believe or not, Japanese like blond, (same as chinese in china), if you got a forgein star to represent your product, you sell more of your products......Japan the 2nd largest econmey around the worlds, but exactly how big their in country market is? Last I checked they are also among those bigest export country. For last couple of decada their product filt up in china market....but no more.

ETA.
I'm only talk about the case of top of US skaters such as SC and MK. As original post that I responded.

Well considering that Miki had to leave the country because the Japanese media hasn't been leaving her alone and all three Japanese ladies are scoring high profile endorsements (McDonalds, Miki's sausages etc) makes me believe that there will be demand for a Japanese ladies OGM. If skating is so unpopular in Japan, how come there are Japanese that fly all over the place to watch the Russian men and give them gifts? How is it that Abt and Kulik get steady work in Japan when they aren't in demand in the states? Why did the Japanese Federation go out of its way to create a Cheesefest of their own to promote their lady skaters?

The Japanese Federation is doing everything to promote their skaters to Japan. It knows that the future in the sport is to create Japanese skating stars and the sponsors are jumping on board.

As for the Japanese economy, it may not be strong but the Japanese are still the main buyers of luxury goods worldwide. The Japanese wait a long time to marry and live primarily at home and save their yen so they can indulge in Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Chanel, electronic toys etc. These people save their money and as a result have a lot of spending power even during hard times.

As for Nancy vs. Kristi: Kristi in the long run has made considerably more money than Nancy in terms of endorsements and she has had many high profile ones. I think that she has had more high profile endorsements than any other skater. I've seen full pictorials in Vogue when Kristi endorsed acetate, milk, colored contacts, and platinum jewelry. Kristi has done numerous ads that I've seen on TV : weight watchers, some ad where she pretended to be a talk show host, the Verizon ads etc.

 

[mzheng]

Well considering that Miki had to leave the country because the Japanese media hasn't been leaving her alone and all three Japanese ladies are scoring high profile endorsements (McDonalds, Miki's sausages etc) makes me believe that there will be demand for a Japanese ladies OGM. If skating is so unpopular in Japan, how come there are Japanese that fly all over the place to watch the Russian men and give them gifts? How is it that Abt and Kulik get steady work in Japan when they aren't in demand in the states? Why did the Japanese Federation go out of its way to create a Cheesefest of their own to promote their lady skaters?
.

The skating is not a populating sport in Japan is not my invention. It was Fummie who said in a interview when asked how pressure she felt. She said the figure skating is not a popular sport in Japan. She hopes her doing well in worlds will help promote the figure skating in Japan. More ppl will come to watch figure skating....Just like FS is not very popular in US, but still there are money flow into the sport. But compare to other majore sports star, like basketball player, it's nothing even with MK's accumulative endorsments. That's all I said you have to compare. Compare other OGM from Japan in a popular sports of Japan (amy be Judo?) see how big endorsments they got?

The Japanese Federation is doing everything to promote their skaters to Japan. It knows that the future in the sport is to create Japanese skating stars and the sponsors are jumping on board.

Agree with this. Japanese Federation sure is doing a lot to promot the FS now a days. Let's wait and see this happens. They do have school of young teen girls who can certainly jump. And powerful jumper.

As for the Japanese economy, it may not be strong but the Japanese are still the main buyers of luxury goods worldwide. The Japanese wait a long time to marry and live primarily at home and save their yen so they can indulge in Louis Vuitton, Hermes, Chanel, electronic toys etc. These people save their money and as a result have a lot of spending power even during hard times.

I know that, after all chinese cultural is not so far away from Japanese or vise vs. That again bring back to question of how big Japanese population? Which certainly translate to how biger the potential market and buying power is amoung Japanese consumers.....I have a cousine who had lived in Japan for about a decade, and now having lived in states for a decade. Compare the consume habbit in two different country, she said for average ppl in daily life, Americans spend money far more 'freely' and/or 'carelessly' than Japanese. In Japan, ppl buy expensive things but used to treasure it and can keep/use it loooooong time. While in US, ppl kept buying new stuff and throw away the old ones......tell me if you are a Market representive of some mssive consumble product, which cosume group is your easy target?

As for Nancy vs. Kristi: Kristi in the long run has made considerably more money than Nancy in terms of endorsements and she has had many high profile ones. I think that she has had more high profile endorsements than any other skater. I've seen full pictorials in Vogue when Kristi endorsed acetate, milk, colored contacts, and platinum jewelry. Kristi has done numerous ads that I've seen on TV : weight watchers, some ad where she pretended to be a talk show host, the Verizon ads etc.

I'm not the one brought up the topic of Kristi's less endorsement as an OGM. I'm only guilty of bringing Nancy in the disscussion.

 

[brad640]

I think Joannie is a huge joke.

The reason Joannie became a joke last season was that Skate Canada did not know how to manage her success on the GP. They tried to push her for world gold by giving her outrageously inflated scores at Canadian Nationals trying to send the message that even Irina could not touch her. Also, Canadian fans bought into the lie, thanks in part to Tracy Wilson’s fawning commentary where she acted oblivious to the over scoring. It is yet another case of Canada bemoaning its lack of champions while running any promising talent into the ground.

They don't have OGM in FS, but they have OGM in other sports. You can compare the endorsements with starts in those sports. And last I heard, FS is not apopular sport in Japan anyway.

The potential money makers in the Japanese market are the Euro and North American men. Plushenko is the one who receives extravagant gifts from Japanese fans at shows, and Yagudin got a book deal in Japan. Johnny also has his share of Japanese angels.

 

[gezando]

Compare the consume habbit in two different country, she said for average ppl in daily life, Americans spend money far more 'freely' and/or 'carelessly' than Japanese. In Japan, ppl buy expensive things but used to treasure it and can keep/use it loooooong time. While in US, ppl kept buying new stuff and throw away the old ones......tell me if you are a Market representive of some mssive consumble product, which cosume group is your easy target?

If I am a market representative of some massive consume product, I will target both, with different strategy, and use different people to endorse the product. I dare not ignore the consumers in the worlds #2 economy. I will package the products differently to each group. Since someone already talked about the top 3 Japanese ladies endorsing candies, so lets talk about candies. In America candies unit price is relatively inexpensive and the vol consume is huge. So the American group is easy target as you said, I wonder if the US candy industry need to pay huge $$$$ for someone to endorse the product?? probably not. In Japan, candies are packaged in the most exquisite way, the candy wraps are beautiful, probably just one piece of candy wrap is more expensive than a bar of snickers, and ounce for ounce cost much more than American candies. Even if Japanese consumers not easy target, but the Japanese candy companies still have to sell the candies, therefore they may have to pay $$$ for stars to endorse their product, and in this case the top 3 skating ladies. BTW, they are not OGM yet, imagine if a top Japanese skater wins the OGM??? I think that Japanese OGM skater will make more endorsement money than your darling Sashie.

Also not quite sure what you meant by Japanese is #2 world economy as an exporter of goods. Are you implying that is not enough domestic consuming power? It does not make sense. If Japan makes money by exporting goods, that means they are making money, so they have to consume some of the money in their domestic market.

Back to your original overgeneralization that foreign OGM will not earn as much endorsement, I don't think you have much basis for that.

I'm not the one brought up the topic of Kristi's less endorsement as an OGM.

Well but you did say foreign OGM does not or will not make as much money in endorsement as a top American skater.

 

[mzheng]

The potential money makers in the Japanese market are the Euro and North American men. Plushenko is the one who receives extravagant gifts from Japanese fans at shows, and Yagudin got a book deal in Japan. Johnny also has his share of Japanese angels.

Yeah. I can see this. Most of them I believe from young girls. Just like young girls in china these days, getting crazy about western men.

 

[mzheng]

Back to your original overgeneralization that foreign OGM will not earn as much endorsement, I don't think you have much basis for that.

Well but you did say foreign OGM does not or will not make as much money in endorsement as a top American skater.

I don't think my 'overgeneraliztion' is lack of base. As I said in my original post that you quoted first, but you only chose the last paragraph, my speculation is based on that more than half of ISU fundding is from US TV contract, where the TV money from? Comercial ads.

 

[gezando]

I don't think my 'overgeneraliztion' is lack of base. As I said in my original post that you quoted first, but you only chose the last paragraph, my speculation is based on that more than half of ISU fundding is from US TV contract, where the TV money from? Comercial ads.

What kind of ads are they running?? Kristi's smart one commercial is run during these competitions, so she is receiving money from endorsement. I haven't seen any Michelle tire commercials on tv during skate america broadcast yet.

 

[Excidra2001]

We really do not know whether an American skating star will make more money then a Japanese Olympic gold medalist and vise-versa. But what is evident is that Japan is ready for an Olympic ladies champion. They came close with Ito but this time they are really pulling all the stops by having their 3 contenders advertise products, make them more visible in Japan and even start a cheese-fest just to promote their ladies.
If Miki, who seems to be the most popular of the three, wins the Olympic gold, watch out world because she'll be making so much money in Japan and she might even get something in US of A.

 

[Jaana]

My prediction for Campbell's Classic:

1. Kwan
2. Cohen
3. Arakawa

1. Weir
2. Sandhu
3. Lysacek

 

[tripleflutz]

This list doesn't reflect my rooting interest, but these are my picks

1. Joubert
2. Lysacek
3. Honda
4. Weir

1. Cohen
2. Arakawa
3. Kwan
4. Hughes


tripleflutz

 

[R.D.]

The reason Joannie became a joke last season was that Skate Canada did not know how to manage her success on the GP. They tried to push her for world gold by giving her outrageously inflated scores at Canadian Nationals trying to send the message that even Irina could not touch her. Also, Canadian fans bought into the lie, thanks in part to Tracy Wilson’s fawning commentary where she acted oblivious to the over scoring. It is yet another case of Canada bemoaning its lack of champions while running any promising talent into the ground.

It's stuff like this that I fear might (continue to) happen in the future. Even when the U.S. adopts it, they will continue to push and promote the skaters they think will do better, and will enlarge their scores to make it look like so. Another reason I say Kwan is winning Nats next year, no doubt.

 

[R.D.]

A good point was made on another discussion board:

It tends to be a lot easier to move up in the rankings during a competition under the Cop than under 6.0. In 6.0 if you were in 7th place you were basically screwed unless everyone else above you had a meltdown. Now the point system allows you to make up ground if the difference between 1st and 7th place is negligible (4 points or less).

Now how's that for things. Upsets could be even more common now.

 

[millie]

The reason Joannie became a joke last season was that Skate Canada did not know how to manage her success on the GP. They tried to push her for world gold by giving her outrageously inflated scores at Canadian Nationals trying to send the message that even Irina could not touch her. Also, Canadian fans bought into the lie, thanks in part to Tracy Wilson’s fawning commentary where she acted oblivious to the over scoring. It is yet another case of Canada bemoaning its lack of champions while running any promising talent into the ground.

I agree with you in part of your post with the outrageously inlfated scores at Canadian Nationals. This seems to be the norm in countries that want their favourite skater to win the Nationals. I think that this gives the skaters false hopes when they get of their home ice and face the real competition, they don't know how to handle it (the pressure)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

My prediction for Campbell's Classic:

JAANA and TRIPLEFLUTZ - This is a Final Lineup thread not a Prediction thread.

Predictions are to be made in the Events Section so as not clutter up The Edge.

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'rankings'. Michelle Kwan is way down in the rankings under any system. Check the ISU ranking system. This news should make you happy.

If you mean that the scoring after the SP at Nationals (which has been won twice by Sasha Cohen) is somewhat easier to gain ground for the final total after the LP, this is possible if the skater who is lagging behind skates better than in the SP. Unfortunately, Sasha has not yet been able to do this, so she defaults to MK.

But this year is the CoP at Nationals and we'll see how Kimmie is scored.

Joe