First-Time Boots/Blades/Guards Problems (Adult beginner, Edea)

[willowisps]

Hello! My question is two/three-fold. I’m an adult beginner and just passed LTS 1. 5’6, around 150lbs, worst in my class . I was previously using recreational skates that had no ankle support. I’m a very timid skater and like to go slow and steady and still struggle with finding my balance on the ice. I’ve really enjoyed skating despite being hilariously bad, so I decided to invest in actual beginner figure skates thinking they would help.

I went to a proper fitter and was recommended Edea Overtures with MK Galaxy blade because I have narrow feet. They gave me a 3/8ths sharpness which kind of concerned me because that seems like a far extreme, but they said it was their default and what do I know?

The fitter didn’t show me how to tie them the “Edea way” but I’ve watched lots of videos and am liiiike 75% sure I’m doing it correctly. I keep it soft but snug in the toes, tight at the bend point, and soft but snug up the ankle. The boots don’t deform or crease when I bend and I don’t feel my heel moving but to be honest, I’m not sure if I would even recognize that feeling.

I tried my new skates out for the first time yesterday and had some, uh, problems. The first one is that I could barely walk in them with the guards on (Rockerz brand, if it matters) off ice. I know, embarrassing! I was super wobbly. I wasn’t particularly confident walking off ice in my old skates (without guards), but I didn’t feel nearly as unsteady. Is this normal? I’m a total beginner so I’m hoping it’s just weak ankles (I heard Edea forces you to build up ankle strength?), but I can’t find anything about anyone else struggling just to walk, so it felt like a bad omen.

Once I was on the ice, I felt much more steady bending my knees into the skates. However, I then ran into my next problem: the blades could barely move. It was like skating through molasses or walking through heavy snow. Couldn’t do any of my LTS 1 skills. It was hard to push and basically 0 glide. I was just dragging myself around and my feet were so, so tired, I didn’t even know if I’d make it a full lap! I like slow and steady, but not like this!!! Is this because of the 3/8ths? Or the boot/blade itself?

Thanks for any insight!

 

[silverlily1]

I can say that 1/2" radius of hollow is much more common than 3/8" for lower levels. I think I probably had 3/8" at one point, and yes, it does bite into the ice more, but I didn't have it at your skating level (and can't remember when I was at that level), so I can't compare to your feeling. I can say that a misaligned blade has totally given me that on-ice feeling.

It's easy to go back and ask for 1/2" radius of hollow instead. It will take a bit of life off the blades, but as long as you're not constantly changing it it will be fine. If that doesn't help enough, your blades might not be aligned properly.

Other people might have other suggestions.

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Welcome to the forum!

I tend to like my blades on the sharp side, so I tried going from 1/2" to 3/8" once. My edges felt a bit more secure, but I was surprised by how much glide I lost, and turns and spins felt quite different - so I went back to 1/2" and haven't changed since.

Smaller ROHs tend to work better for advanced skaters, especially those who are smaller/lighter and need a bit of extra bite in their edges. Beginners - especially adults - are better off with a standard/slightly shallow ROH to allow for more glide and maneuverability. Depending on who you ask, the "standard" ROH is either 1/2" or 7/16" - you'll be fine with either of these, I think.

One way to check if your heels are locked in to the boots is to hold on to something for balance, and go up onto your toepicks, then back down. Bounce up and down on your toes like this a few times - if you aren't getting a good heel lock, you'll feel your heels come up off the insoles, or rub against the backs of the boots. (You can do this on or off the ice!)

There are a few things that could be contributing to the wobbly feeling you're having when walking in your guards. For starters, walking in skates is generally more clumsy than skating in them (even two-time World and Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu has a little trouble walking off-ice in his skates sometimes!). You're also right that having weak ankles could be part of the problem - since you have so little contact with the ground horizontally while walking in skates, your ankles need to have the strength to compensate for the side-to-side motion.

If your feet pronate/supinate, that could also be contributing to it. These terms refer to where the majority of your weight is placed on your feet, particularly when walking. Pronation means that your weight is placed closer to the inside of your feet, while supination means the weight is placed on the outside. One way to tell if you might pronate or supinate is to look at the soles of a pair of shoes you've owned for a long time - if the treads are worn out unevenly (either more on the insides or outsides of the soles), then it's likely you pronate/supinate. A sports professional, such as a skate tech or running shoe fitter, or a medical professional, such as a podiatrist or physical therapist, should be able to tell you this as well.

For skaters who pronate / supinate, it often helps to have the position of their blades adjusted so that they are more centered under the part of your foot where you place the most weight while skating. I have a mild-to-moderate pronation, so my blades are mounted slightly towards the insides of my feet, and it helps a lot with balance while I'm in my skates - walking or skating!

Also - a couple thoughts about Edeas and ankle strength! (I'll preface this by saying I've spent a total of about 5-10 minutes skating in Edeas, so take with a grain of salt.)

You likely already know this - but, Edeas are designed with a more flexible tongue than most other brands, and a looser fit around the collar of the boot. This way, there's less resistance from the boot against the top of the ankle and the lower part of the shin, making it easier for skaters to bend their knees, especially while the boots are still in the break-in period. However, even with the more flexible tongue and the looser collar, there should still be good lateral (side-to-side) support for your ankles, and they should still feel snug and secure around the actual joint of your ankle. If you're feeling your ankles wobble from side to side inside of the boots, it could mean that you're not lacing the boots right, that the boots are too big/wide for you, or that Edeas just aren't a great match for the size and shape of your feet and ankles (though since you went to a fitter, hopefully that last one isn't the case!!).

I've also heard folks say that Edeas "force" you to develop good ankle strength - but I think it's important to note that you aren't likely to develop a whole lot of ankle strength just from skating in Edea boots! If you're not already doing this - definitely consider developing an off-ice exercise routine. It doesn't have to be anything too complex, or even specialized for skating. As an example - I like to lift weights, so I make sure to include calf raises and one-leg squats in my workouts to help strengthen and develop the muscles that stabilize my ankles. Other types of workouts can include exercises to help with ankle strength and flexibility - such as yoga, or Pilates.

Hope this is helpful!

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

I came to say the same as above regarding weak ankles and strenghtening them through off ice training.

I've always only used Edea boots since they fit me the best for many reasons + I hate having my ankles strangled and love their loose fit around the ankles, however I come from a lifetime of classical ballet and even now I keep an off ice exercise training routine focusing in many things, extensions/stretching, core strenght, endurance/stamina, balance and working on muscle groups that help in skating, including ankle strenght, etc.
I don't like recommending any exercise without knowing your physical condition, so I would recommend hiring an off ice coach or personal trainer with experience in skating to physically evaluate you in person, understand your physical weakenesses and create an exercise routine that will help you best.
In addition, your gait might be aggravating your stability on the skates, and that is something that a sports orthopaedist doctor is qualified to evaluate, and recommend physical therapy and/or orthotics to be used inside the skate.

You say you went to a trusted fitter to buy your skates so you started the process correctly, but issues exist or persist even using skates that fit best, the issue may be you, not the footwear.

 

[willowisps]

Welcome to the forum!

I tend to like my blades on the sharp side, so I tried going from 1/2" to 3/8" once. My edges felt a bit more secure, but I was surprised by how much glide I lost, and turns and spins felt quite different - so I went back to 1/2" and haven't changed since.

Smaller ROHs tend to work better for advanced skaters, especially those who are smaller/lighter and need a bit of extra bite in their edges. Beginners - especially adults - are better off with a standard/slightly shallow ROH to allow for more glide and maneuverability. Depending on who you ask, the "standard" ROH is either 1/2" or 7/16" - you'll be fine with either of these, I think.

One way to check if your heels are locked in to the boots is to hold on to something for balance, and go up onto your toepicks, then back down. Bounce up and down on your toes like this a few times - if you aren't getting a good heel lock, you'll feel your heels come up off the insoles, or rub against the backs of the boots. (You can do this on or off the ice!)

There are a few things that could be contributing to the wobbly feeling you're having when walking in your guards. For starters, walking in skates is generally more clumsy than skating in them (even two-time World and Olympic champion Yuzuru Hanyu has a little trouble walking off-ice in his skates sometimes!). You're also right that having weak ankles could be part of the problem - since you have so little contact with the ground horizontally while walking in skates, your ankles need to have the strength to compensate for the side-to-side motion.

If your feet pronate/supinate, that could also be contributing to it. These terms refer to where the majority of your weight is placed on your feet, particularly when walking. Pronation means that your weight is placed closer to the inside of your feet, while supination means the weight is placed on the outside. One way to tell if you might pronate or supinate is to look at the soles of a pair of shoes you've owned for a long time - if the treads are worn out unevenly (either more on the insides or outsides of the soles), then it's likely you pronate/supinate. A sports professional, such as a skate tech or running shoe fitter, or a medical professional, such as a podiatrist or physical therapist, should be able to tell you this as well.

For skaters who pronate / supinate, it often helps to have the position of their blades adjusted so that they are more centered under the part of your foot where you place the most weight while skating. I have a mild-to-moderate pronation, so my blades are mounted slightly towards the insides of my feet, and it helps a lot with balance while I'm in my skates - walking or skating!

Also - a couple thoughts about Edeas and ankle strength! (I'll preface this by saying I've spent a total of about 5-10 minutes skating in Edeas, so take with a grain of salt.)

You likely already know this - but, Edeas are designed with a more flexible tongue than most other brands, and a looser fit around the collar of the boot. This way, there's less resistance from the boot against the top of the ankle and the lower part of the shin, making it easier for skaters to bend their knees, especially while the boots are still in the break-in period. However, even with the more flexible tongue and the looser collar, there should still be good lateral (side-to-side) support for your ankles, and they should still feel snug and secure around the actual joint of your ankle. If you're feeling your ankles wobble from side to side inside of the boots, it could mean that you're not lacing the boots right, that the boots are too big/wide for you, or that Edeas just aren't a great match for the size and shape of your feet and ankles (though since you went to a fitter, hopefully that last one isn't the case!!).

I've also heard folks say that Edeas "force" you to develop good ankle strength - but I think it's important to note that you aren't likely to develop a whole lot of ankle strength just from skating in Edea boots! If you're not already doing this - definitely consider developing an off-ice exercise routine. It doesn't have to be anything too complex, or even specialized for skating. As an example - I like to lift weights, so I make sure to include calf raises and one-leg squats in my workouts to help strengthen and develop the muscles that stabilize my ankles. Other types of workouts can include exercises to help with ankle strength and flexibility - such as yoga, or Pilates.

Hope this is helpful!

Oh my goodness, what an absolute wealth of knowledge! Thank you so much for all of this!

I took your recommendations to test if the heel was locking in. There was some slight lifting/slipping, so I retied them tighter and though that minimized it quite a bit, it wasn't completely gone. Tying it tighter also made the ball of my foot start to cramp because of some uncomfortable pressure from the tongue right before my toes. Is this something that can be addressed with molding, or am I completely doomed? These are straight out-of-the-box unshaped boots, btw.

I also checked some well-used shoes and the outside of the soles are muuuuch more worn than the insides, so it sounds like that's a factor as well. I can even tell just walking that the insides of my feet barely touch the ground. Whew, my problem is multi-faceted!

I will definitely be going back to the fitter. It was a very overwhelming experience to someone totally new to all of this, but hopefully now I will know how to discuss my problems better!

 

[willowisps]

I can say that 1/2" radius of hollow is much more common than 3/8" for lower levels. I think I probably had 3/8" at one point, and yes, it does bite into the ice more, but I didn't have it at your skating level (and can't remember when I was at that level), so I can't compare to your feeling. I can say that a misaligned blade has totally given me that on-ice feeling.

It's easy to go back and ask for 1/2" radius of hollow instead. It will take a bit of life off the blades, but as long as you're not constantly changing it it will be fine. If that doesn't help enough, your blades might not be aligned properly.

Other people might have other suggestions.

I will definitely ask for a different hollow! Not sure why they gave me 3/8, I thought I was pretty clear that the most advanced thing I've done so far is swizzles, but maybe they thought I was being modest and deeply underestimated my beginner-ness!

 

[willowisps]

I came to say the same as above regarding weak ankles and strenghtening them through off ice training.

I've always only used Edea boots since they fit me the best for many reasons + I hate having my ankles strangled and love their loose fit around the ankles, however I come from a lifetime of classical ballet and even now I keep an off ice exercise training routine focusing in many things, extensions/stretching, core strenght, endurance/stamina, balance and working on muscle groups that help in skating, including ankle strenght, etc.
I don't like recommending any exercise without knowing your physical condition, so I would recommend hiring an off ice coach or personal trainer with experience in skating to physically evaluate you in person, understand your physical weakenesses and create an exercise routine that will help you best.
In addition, your gait might be aggravating your stability on the skates, and that is something that a sports orthopaedist doctor is qualified to evaluate, and recommend physical therapy and/or orthotics to be used inside the skate.

You say you went to a trusted fitter to buy your skates so you started the process correctly, but issues exist or persist even using skates that fit best, the issue may be you, not the footwear.

Absolutely! I don't come from an athletic background and mostly picked this up for fun, so my ankles are probably as weak as they come. I can inline skate decently, but those boots are tall and hard plastic, so they do most of the work for me. I also favor the outside of my foot when I walk, so it sounds like I should get my gait checked out. Thank you for the advice!

 

[bostonskaterguy86]

Oh my goodness, what an absolute wealth of knowledge! Thank you so much for all of this!

I took your recommendations to test if the heel was locking in. There was some slight lifting/slipping, so I retied them tighter and though that minimized it quite a bit, it wasn't completely gone. Tying it tighter also made the ball of my foot start to cramp because of some uncomfortable pressure from the tongue right before my toes. Is this something that can be addressed with molding, or am I completely doomed? These are straight out-of-the-box unshaped boots, btw.

I also checked some well-used shoes and the outside of the soles are muuuuch more worn than the insides, so it sounds like that's a factor as well. I can even tell just walking that the insides of my feet barely touch the ground. Whew, my problem is multi-faceted!

I will definitely be going back to the fitter. It was a very overwhelming experience to someone totally new to all of this, but hopefully now I will know how to discuss my problems better!

Very glad to help!

If you only had very minor / slight heel movement in the boot, you're definitely not doomed! When you get skates heat molded, it is possible for the tech to pinch the ankles/heels in a bit to make them more narrow, but unfortunately they're very likely to go back to their original shape over time (heat molding is generally better for making things larger than for making them smaller). What I think would help you better is some gel pads (aka “Bungas”). I had a lot of issues with heel slippage in my last boots, and the gel pads helped quite a bit!! There are quite a few different versions - the ones I use are the CRS Cross Boot Bumper sleeves. They’re $20 on Amazon. They have gel pads on the back that can help fill up any extra space that’s allowing your heel to slip. They’re a nice cheap solution that can help with a lot of minor issues!

 

[silverlily1]

Oh my goodness, what an absolute wealth of knowledge! Thank you so much for all of this!

I took your recommendations to test if the heel was locking in. There was some slight lifting/slipping, so I retied them tighter and though that minimized it quite a bit, it wasn't completely gone. Tying it tighter also made the ball of my foot start to cramp because of some uncomfortable pressure from the tongue right before my toes. Is this something that can be addressed with molding, or am I completely doomed? These are straight out-of-the-box unshaped boots, btw.

I also checked some well-used shoes and the outside of the soles are muuuuch more worn than the insides, so it sounds like that's a factor as well. I can even tell just walking that the insides of my feet barely touch the ground. Whew, my problem is multi-faceted!

I will definitely be going back to the fitter. It was a very overwhelming experience to someone totally new to all of this, but hopefully now I will know how to discuss my problems better!

So you supinate.

You shouldn't have the heel lifting or shifting. If you point your toe and there's slight movement, that's one thing, but you don't want it to be able to move up and down. That indicates you could be in the wrong shape (brand and model) or width of boot for your foot. Every brand has a different shape and fit, and is better suited to a different kind of foot. I've experienced a fitter trying to create heel lock where it wasn't, over four hours. I doubt it's going to happen with those boots if you don't have it now.