Free Dance

[Mathman]

"USFS should invite Virtue and Moir to Skate America."

Yes, I guess it would help them to fill up the arena(s). Watching TV, I noticed many empty places at Skate America On the other hand in Mississauga majority of places were full.

Sadly, i don't really think it would help. I hate to be a downer, but I think ISU skating is done in the U.S. as a spectator sport.

 

[Spun Silver]

MM, that's really hard for me to accept particularly with regard to ice dance, seeing how big other kinds of dancing are these days. If the feds and the ISU would promote the big rivalry between two attractive teams who really have the goods, I think the audiences could grow. I'm not so sure about the ladies and pairs right now but men's, with a dominant star and all the quads-throwers who hope to challenge him, have another great story line.

 

[Mathman]

^ In that respect, I think the USFSA should carefully consider exactly what the pros and cons are of holding all of its events under the ISU hegemony.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

As for the discussion of Funny Face, I share ChuckM's impression of the film. I think the dance itself is very good, but not optimal for them. A bit like D/Ws tango last season. It can certainly grow and improve, an possible win for them. I think it is likely a good vehicle to allow them to try out new things.

I do find it interesting how different the impressions are among those who love the program vs those who only appreciate it. There was a newspaper article from the weekend on the program that praised it and went on about the lost beauty of old films and the universal lack of quality in contemporary ones. He used that point to assert that skating today is similarly devoid of inspiration. I find that to be a lazy approach to remembering the past or evaluating the present. Not every old Hollywood film was a classic or created with a pure artistic intent. Similarly, not every contemporary film is a contrived collage of CGI or screenwriting by committee. V/M are phenomenal skaters and almost anything they do will be generally well received. That does not mean every endeavor is a masterpiece or that it has to be. (Same applies to D/W, T/D, K/P, etc. btw)

Oh, this is a much grander conversation piece than this thread would allow, but some brief thoughts.

1. I actually think Funny Face is one of the strongest Hollywood musicals, and maybe even better than any of the legendary Astaire-Rogers collaborations. I'm more of a Sondheim man than Gershwin, admittedly, but what Donen does with light and sound is magnificent.

2. I definitely agree with you about the remembrance of the past and the dismissive attitude towards the present, but I don't think it's entirely unfair, with one or two caveats thrown in, of course.

3. Anything that can get Tessa to laugh as joyously as she did at the end of this dance.... well, far be it for me to question it. That stated, there are other old scores I would've prefered.

4. I don't think figure skating will exist outside it's niche, but I do think a far grander approach than the one the ISU envisions will allow the niche to thrive and perpetuate itself, which I'm fine with.

 

[KKonas]

I understand that Virtue is an Audrey Hepburn fan, but as lovely as Hepburn was, no one would call her a dancer. Funny Face was IMO a totally forgettable movie musical (originally performed on Broadway with Astaire and his sister Adele in 1927), so I am somewhat amused by this sudden elevation of this movie (made in 1957) as if it were a Hollywood classic. It doesn't crack the top 25 of the American Film Institute's Greatest Movie Musicals. Even for Astaire who was at the end of his dancing days in the '50s, The Band Wagon and Silk Stockings with Cyd Charisse, and Royal Wedding (with singer/dancer Jane Powell 1951), where Astaire dances with a hat rack and "on top of the ceiling" was far more memorable. So comparing Virtue to Hepburn as a dancer sort of downgrades Virtue's talents, which are far superior to Hepburn's limited efforts in Funny Face.

 

[mskater93]

You just answered your own question.

No, I didn't. D/W are both college students in addition to high level ice dancers. I don't see that they would choose to skate three events, especially not two back to back with no opportunity to tweak the programs between. V/M made a comment that there is a huge disincentive to agreeing to skate three events so I highly doubt that they will either. So next assertion, please, that they will meet at SC?

BTW, not that I am angry or upset, but for future reference, I am a she not a he, Doris.

 

[chuckm]

V/M said they were disinclined to do 3 events because of the penalty for having to withdraw due to injury. With Tessa's past history of injury, that makes a lot of sense. I can also see that D/W's commitment to education also makes 3 events just one too many.

As for Funny Face, I saw it and it was far from one of the most compelling musicals of the 50s (it was one of the last). Hepburn was not known as a dancer, and she certainly isn't much of a singer, either. She was beautiful and charming, but obviously much too young for the near-60 Astaire of the time. It was a studio concoction, meant to be a box-office draw but it wasn't a huge success and shortly thereafter studios stopped making movie musicals altogether.

 

[wallylutz]

If the Red Sox and the Yankees could do anything to skew the season so that they could end up with home field advantage when it came time for the World Series, do you think they would not take it?

Well, it would help if the Red Sox actually qualifies for the post season to begin with and not hitting for less than 0.300 in September. Sorry, I can't resist as a Yankee fan.

For Meryl & Charlie, there is the negative effect to their college of screwing up the schedule in successive weeks. The negative of having no chance to rearrange programs to respond to judges input. The loss of an extra week's training. An extra week of wear on expensive costumes.

Well, you are forgetting the proposed site for SC 2012 is Windsor, which is really a twin city to Detroit similar to Minneapolis/St-Paul. The only travel they need from Detroit is half hour drive at most, probably less when there is no traffic. They don't even need to skip any classes, no more than when they are in the Detroit area.

And what would they gain by this?
Crush their rivals? And I assume their rivals are supposed to remain crushed?
Just because one or the other team won Skate Canada? When the same rivals didn't feel crushed when they were beaten at Worlds?

The 2011 World will always have an asterix because of Tessa's injury. Given that 2013 Worlds will be in Canada, they might as well get used to compete there. If they can beat V/M at Skate Canada, it would indeed send a strong message, and IMO, greater than their win at 2011 Worlds.

 

[wallylutz]

It seems fans of D/W and/or V/M are itching for an early matchup just for the fans' own satisfaction.

D/W and V/M will meet at the GPF, and then again at 4 Continents (in Colorado Springs this year) before Worlds. I think that 3 meetups are sufficient. Let the teams face off when their programs are more polished, rather than in the formative stages as they are now.

You are missing the point. The test balloon is asking what if D/W gets to meet V/M at the 2012 SC in Windsor? D/W have some recognition in the Detroit area so presumably, having SC there with both teams attending would be a big draw, similar to a Yankee-Red Sox showdown.

 

[wallylutz]

I understand that Virtue is an Audrey Hepburn fan, but as lovely as Hepburn was, no one would call her a dancer.

[...]

So comparing Virtue to Hepburn as a dancer sort of downgrades Virtue's talents, which are far superior to Hepburn's limited efforts in Funny Face.

In other words, just because the character she portrayed on ice isn't/wasn't a good dancer in real life, it implies a poor choice on the part of Tessa Virtue? And if we were to limit ourselves only to unequivocal dancers and top ranked classics, just how many choices are there? You might as well scratch the word Free from Free Dance. Frankly, what you said is not a consideration as far as a competitive program is concerned. Free Dance or Free Skating is meant as a personal interpretation of chosen music. Ryan Bradley's decision to portray Bethoven in a comical way is just as acceptable as another skater's classic interpretation. This is different to the principles of Original Dance - now Short Dance. The latter has a greater emphasis on reflecting the character of the prescribed rythm and correspondingly, IN given a bigger weight than other program component, hence the controversy at the 2010 Olympics when the Russian World Champions chose the aboriginal (Australian) music that portrayed them as uncivilized brute. You can't expect every single judge and official to know who is Audrey Hepburn. I have no idea who she was. It doesn't matter however, the important thing is how the skater portrayed it and what she did with her skates and her upper body. Audrey Hepburn could be an old lady in wheelchair and for all I know, Tessa Virtue was portraying a fairytale that the old lady grew a pair of wings & fly.

Funny Face was IMO a totally forgettable movie musical (originally performed on Broadway with Astaire and his sister Adele in 1927), so I am somewhat amused by this sudden elevation of this movie (made in 1957) as if it were a Hollywood classic.

Well, to me, David Freese was without a doubt the MVP of the World Series. Then I read several articles with people claiming that Carpenter really should have been the MVP. How do you argue with that?

 

[wallylutz]

As for Funny Face, I saw it and it was far from one of the most compelling musicals of the 50s (it was one of the last).

The only thing that matters is it means something to the skater(s) and that they can relate it and convey it to the audience. Everything else is just subjective preference and you can't possibly please every single person.

 

[wallylutz]

No, I didn't. D/W are both college students in addition to high level ice dancers. I don't see that they would choose to skate three events, especially not two back to back with no opportunity to tweak the programs between.

The proposed event will take place in their backyard which they can drive themselves to in less than 30 minutes.

V/M made a comment that there is a huge disincentive to agreeing to skate three events so I highly doubt that they will either. So next assertion, please, that they will meet at SC?

Nothing in this world is ever absolute. Oil sands used to make no sense economically 20 years ago. Nowadays, there simply isn't enough of it.

 

[chuckm]

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, WALLYLUTZ, regardless of whether you think it should.

And maybe YOU think there is an asterisk on Worlds 2011, but there are lots of us that don't agree. D/W won fair and square, and by a fairly large margin.

 

[wallylutz]

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, WALLYLUTZ, regardless of whether you think it should.

I have no opinion on whether it should or shouldn't. If it were up to me, I'd be in favor of paying an appearance fee.

And maybe YOU think there is an asterisk on Worlds 2011, but there are lots of us that don't agree. D/W won fair and square, and by a fairly large margin.

If you re-read the 2011 World threads, you'll recall that I agree with D/W's win. That's not the question. It is the perception whether D/W would have won if V/M were healthy and competed in all of their planned events so that their FD could acquire the mileage it needed. The fact that they still lost to V/M in the SD at both 4CC and Worlds with many people here saying the margin there could have been greater is an evidence in support of such doubt because the lack of training and mileage would really show at the FD, not the SD where the latter is 40% CD. We know veteran skaters in the past who came back from injuries tend to do well in CD but struggled in FD due to lack of mileage so it stands to reason their FD results was at least in part affected by the lack of practice time and skating in front of a competitive environment. Hence, a clear victory at a hypothetical SC match up could send a much more convincing signal. With the upcoming GPF and 2013 Worlds both in Canada, it really isn't crazy to suggest them to get used to it. That's my $0.02

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Sudden elevation? Dude, be fair, I can have an opinion outside the AFI list - which given what it includes, one might be wise to.