I said immediately after seeing her for the first time that this girl needs a lot of polish. She's the Caydee/John in pairs. TES is good, but needs so much polishing. Gracie is currently lacking the audience connection that Caydee/John have. She needs a lot of work to make it to the top, and there are only a handful of coaches who can transform somebody like her into a contender.
Gracie Gold: Can she medal at JW (and beyond)?
- Thread starter drivingmissdaisy
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To the ones that are trying to say my favorite, Sarah Hughes, is a second-tier skater, I beg to differ. I have all my stats, as I fell in love with her skating when I first saw her skate as a 12 yr. old at Jr. Nationals. 
2002 OLYMPIC CHAMPION SARAH HUGHES F.S. RECORD
1998 ~ Jr. National Champion (btw other notable Jr. National Champions: Maribel Vinson '24, Tenley Albright '50, Carol Heiss '52, Laurence Owen '59, Janet Lynn '60, Elaine Zayak '79) & Jr. World Silver Medalist.
1999 ~ Sr. National Pewter Medalist, 7th at Worlds, 4th at Skate America, Bronze Medalist at Trophee Lalique (medalled her first time out! Extremely rare feat for a 13 yr. old).
2000 ~ Sr. National Bronze Medalist, 5th at Worlds, Silver Medalist at Skate America, Silver Medalist at Nations Cup.
2001 ~ Sr. National Silver Medalist, Bronze Medalist at Worlds, Bronze Medalist at Cup of Russia, Silver Medalist at Skate America, Silver Medalist at Trophee Lalique, Gold Medalist at Skate Canada, Bronze Medalist at GPF.
2002 ~ Sr. National Bronze Medalist, Olympic Champion.
Gracie Gold can only hope to have that type of 5-year record at Jrs. & Srs. Not to mention Kimmie Meissner, who also did extremely well during her 5-yr. tenure at Jrs. & Srs., capturing several gold, silver, and bronze medals along the way.
GOOD LUCK TO GRACIE AT JUNIOR WORLDS!
2002 OLYMPIC CHAMPION SARAH HUGHES F.S. RECORD
1998 ~ Jr. National Champion (btw other notable Jr. National Champions: Maribel Vinson '24, Tenley Albright '50, Carol Heiss '52, Laurence Owen '59, Janet Lynn '60, Elaine Zayak '79) & Jr. World Silver Medalist.
1999 ~ Sr. National Pewter Medalist, 7th at Worlds, 4th at Skate America, Bronze Medalist at Trophee Lalique (medalled her first time out! Extremely rare feat for a 13 yr. old).
2000 ~ Sr. National Bronze Medalist, 5th at Worlds, Silver Medalist at Skate America, Silver Medalist at Nations Cup.
2001 ~ Sr. National Silver Medalist, Bronze Medalist at Worlds, Bronze Medalist at Cup of Russia, Silver Medalist at Skate America, Silver Medalist at Trophee Lalique, Gold Medalist at Skate Canada, Bronze Medalist at GPF.
2002 ~ Sr. National Bronze Medalist, Olympic Champion.
Gracie Gold can only hope to have that type of 5-year record at Jrs. & Srs. Not to mention Kimmie Meissner, who also did extremely well during her 5-yr. tenure at Jrs. & Srs., capturing several gold, silver, and bronze medals along the way.
GOOD LUCK TO GRACIE AT JUNIOR WORLDS!
I'm always happy to see a loyal fan step up to defend a favorite skater. I hope every skater has devoted fans like you, Nadine. One day, I hope Gracie has such fans (maybe some of us!), rather than just people who either hope she will save American ladies' skating or think she won't come up to scratch.
I think Sarah was a good skater who had one night of real greatness. It's impossible to tell whether, if she had matured through the next Olympic cycle, she would have spent more time becoming a real powerhouse. She obviously had the mental steadiness, as well as a full helping of talent. I'm not sure I can evaluate her clearly, because I was such a fan of Michelle's and so wanted Michelle to win in Salt Lake City. But Sarah did American proud. If Gracie Gold has the career Sarah had, even without an Olympic gold, she'll have earned a place in American skating history.
I think Sarah was a good skater who had one night of real greatness. It's impossible to tell whether, if she had matured through the next Olympic cycle, she would have spent more time becoming a real powerhouse. She obviously had the mental steadiness, as well as a full helping of talent. I'm not sure I can evaluate her clearly, because I was such a fan of Michelle's and so wanted Michelle to win in Salt Lake City. But Sarah did American proud. If Gracie Gold has the career Sarah had, even without an Olympic gold, she'll have earned a place in American skating history.
The base value of the winner of most of the JGP events was above 56 base value. Vanessa Lam was 56.64 base in Austria. Julia was 56+ also, Polina Shelepen was. Then the scores plummet in base value. Gracie actually was 57+ at US Nationals.
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- Jan 7, 2011
Let's not forget Sarah Hughes was on the cover of Time magazine for their SLC Olympics issue. These days a US skater would be lucky to get on the cover of a community newsletter.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I think there is a bit of skepticism with Gracie because the US fans historically haven't warmed up to the technical skaters as much as the artistic ones. I think in most countries the fans would be very excited to have her come up through the ranks, while it seems like people here won't like her until she is artistically on par with Alyssa and Mirai. I wish we could all embrace her for what she is: a great jumper and an emerging artist.
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- Nov 20, 2011
same here, I think they are setting the bar too high by also expecting Gold to have her artistic side flourishing with her jumps
not everyone is like Kwan. but Gold is raw but she has it, for some reason I don't think its enough they compare her to Midori Ito and Tonya Harding.
not everyone is like Kwan. but Gold is raw but she has it, for some reason I don't think its enough they compare her to Midori Ito and Tonya Harding.
What's the use of having artistic skaters who can't control their nerves or land the jumps which is the way it's been for over 5 years now? It's about time that the US has a great jumper again. At least it gives the skater a chance in competitions. To many times we've watched whether it was Mira or Alissa or whoever not get it done because they can't land jumps consistently.
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- Dec 21, 2011
I mean, I think we are greedy and want both, but I don't think that is unreasonable since I would say that to get to the top top you have to have both. I do agree it is nice to watch someone and not worry about if they will land the jumps, though. I also think it is too soon to know whether or not Gracie can develop her artistry. I certainly think it is MUCH too soon to think that she can't.
I just watched Gracie Gold's exhibition skate. I agree that skate won't win any gala skating awards or perhaps woo fans on Stars on Ice — the program did highlight her artistic weakness and shows she needs to work to project to the audience more.
But personally I felt the program was just another reflection of her determination to compete. It was like she was competing out there. She even had hard entrances/transitions in her elements and the focus in her eyes was "I need to DO THIS." As Johnny Weir said on the IN commentary, sometimes it's hard for some skaters to adjust to doing gala programs. Gracie's MO has been "focus, focus; skate clean programs" I think it would be hard to suddenly be like "relax, let your hair down...have fun!"
I hope (and am confident) that Gracie will get some feedback and work on her artistry post JW (and maybe before it).
But personally I felt the program was just another reflection of her determination to compete. It was like she was competing out there. She even had hard entrances/transitions in her elements and the focus in her eyes was "I need to DO THIS." As Johnny Weir said on the IN commentary, sometimes it's hard for some skaters to adjust to doing gala programs. Gracie's MO has been "focus, focus; skate clean programs" I think it would be hard to suddenly be like "relax, let your hair down...have fun!"
I hope (and am confident) that Gracie will get some feedback and work on her artistry post JW (and maybe before it).
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- Jan 7, 2011
It's not as if Gracie's... graceless. Her lines and movement, for the most part, are perfectly elegant. Where she falls short is she doesn't hold some of the movement that should be held for maximum impact. She also has her game face on most of the time, and doesn't look at the audience much. Those are all fixable. She would also benefit from better choreography and music than she's used this season.
I have to agree that her choreography and music choices could be better, but again we have to remember that this is a girl who did not expect to be competing on the world stage at all in the beginning of the season. I believe her LP was from last year. It's understandable that she doesn't have world class programs or choreography yet. I'm sure her team will be paying much closer attention to all that next season.
I personally enjoyed her exhibition very much. It showed a different, fun side of her that she could really bring out more. She had good speed and enthusiasm in the program. I agree that she just needs to hold her positions longer and work on refinement/polish. She's not an amazing artist yet but she is very elegant, graceful and pleasant to watch. I think that is overlooked in light of her amazing jumps.
I personally enjoyed her exhibition very much. It showed a different, fun side of her that she could really bring out more. She had good speed and enthusiasm in the program. I agree that she just needs to hold her positions longer and work on refinement/polish. She's not an amazing artist yet but she is very elegant, graceful and pleasant to watch. I think that is overlooked in light of her amazing jumps.
I think people are skeptical because there have been how many girls who haven't reached their potential:
2007: The defending world champ, Kimmie, expected to be in the mix for the next few years, only comes in 4th. Clearly, no match for YuNa, Mao, etc.
2008: Nobody of age does well, but Mirai wins, showing she'd the next dominant skater.
2009: Mirai, the next big thing, comes in 5th. Journeywoman Alissa shows she has changed and stepped it up, and Rachael comes in 5th at Worlds. She'll no doubt medal the next year.
2010: Except both are significantly worse than the year before. But Mirai comes in 4th at the Olympics! And wins the short at Worlds! SHE's the next star. Except--ooops--what happened at the long program. She fell to what?
2011: Alissa's back. And she won the Grand Prix. She'll no doubt medal at Worlds. Except she doesn't.
2012: Alissa's not the skater she was the year before, the stars of 2 years ago have collapsed, and now it's Ashley. Think she'll really win anything?
So now we have had Kimmie, Mirai, Alissa, Rachael, and somewhere in there is former Grand Prix finale-maker Caroline (I almost forgot her) and now Ashley (another former Grand Prix finale maker) all about the same, but none of them really that great. That's 6 ladies expected to break through and medal internationally, but fell short. So, the odds are that Gracie will be #7.
I liked her fun, cute skate at the expo, though. It was age appropriate. She's quirky and cute. I'm sure it's not as "artistic" as if she were skating to heavy, sad, music with a miserable look on her face, but that song and performance suited her, and I hope she isn't forced into a mold that doesn't suit her personality. I think that affected Mirai, Kimmie and Rachael, who are not somber personalities at all.
2007: The defending world champ, Kimmie, expected to be in the mix for the next few years, only comes in 4th. Clearly, no match for YuNa, Mao, etc.
2008: Nobody of age does well, but Mirai wins, showing she'd the next dominant skater.
2009: Mirai, the next big thing, comes in 5th. Journeywoman Alissa shows she has changed and stepped it up, and Rachael comes in 5th at Worlds. She'll no doubt medal the next year.
2010: Except both are significantly worse than the year before. But Mirai comes in 4th at the Olympics! And wins the short at Worlds! SHE's the next star. Except--ooops--what happened at the long program. She fell to what?
2011: Alissa's back. And she won the Grand Prix. She'll no doubt medal at Worlds. Except she doesn't.
2012: Alissa's not the skater she was the year before, the stars of 2 years ago have collapsed, and now it's Ashley. Think she'll really win anything?
So now we have had Kimmie, Mirai, Alissa, Rachael, and somewhere in there is former Grand Prix finale-maker Caroline (I almost forgot her) and now Ashley (another former Grand Prix finale maker) all about the same, but none of them really that great. That's 6 ladies expected to break through and medal internationally, but fell short. So, the odds are that Gracie will be #7.
I liked her fun, cute skate at the expo, though. It was age appropriate. She's quirky and cute. I'm sure it's not as "artistic" as if she were skating to heavy, sad, music with a miserable look on her face, but that song and performance suited her, and I hope she isn't forced into a mold that doesn't suit her personality. I think that affected Mirai, Kimmie and Rachael, who are not somber personalities at all.
re. Wagner. Still, I have to admire one thing about her: she's willing to take some of the responsibility for losing that 3rd spot in the first place and wants to "correct her mistakes" (paraphrasing her words). That's drive & determination I just have not seen in any of the other US ladies, Alyssa included. As to whether she will do it, well, jury is out to decide. It's really on Czisny who hasn't been skating well at all throughout the season...In 2011 you left out one crucial detail: Flatt's in-competition injury and the entire brouhaha that followed. 8th place (perfectly doable if she was healthy) was all she needed and she couldn't do it.
If you want to point fingers, basically the entire US squad shoulders the blame for the predicament we're now in. From the original 2008 team of Meissner, Liang and Wagner to Nagasu, Flatt, Czisny...perhaps even USFS themselves for not being more flexible about team member choices in close races...Back to Gold- well, with all this hype I hope she is bracing for the potential backlash (some of it which Nagasu is now feeling) should she fall short of the "GI-normous" expectations now being placed on her.
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I get that there has been plenty of examples of people not living up to their potential, but preempting that Gracie will end up in the same way— is just as bad as saying "She's our next medal hope in Sochi!
Let's not downplay what Gracie HAS done. She went from fifth at sectionals and falling several times during that competition last season to winning every competition and hitting TWO different 3-3 combination (plus 2A-3T) on a consistent basis. Her only mistakes so far this season, if I recall, so far this year is two falls on her 2A (during her sectionals and at Nationals) and popping her 3L at JGP Estonia. (She also missed some levels as well.)
To do all that requires a competitive spirit. That, along with her jump technique, makes me a fan and optimistic of her prospects.
Let's not downplay what Gracie HAS done. She went from fifth at sectionals and falling several times during that competition last season to winning every competition and hitting TWO different 3-3 combination (plus 2A-3T) on a consistent basis. Her only mistakes so far this season, if I recall, so far this year is two falls on her 2A (during her sectionals and at Nationals) and popping her 3L at JGP Estonia. (She also missed some levels as well.)
To do all that requires a competitive spirit. That, along with her jump technique, makes me a fan and optimistic of her prospects.
I take it I'm not the only one who is losing hope quickly. It seems time and time again when there's a light at the end of the tunnel, it dims as we near it. Now, it is way too soon to know what will happen with Gold but I think once the realization hits that no one else in the US is stepping up to the plate, the pressure will increase fivefold and who knows how she'll handle that. No skater can do it alone- we need at least TWO top 5-caliber world class skaters if we're to get back to pre-2008 status.
Think about it- during the Kwan years MK didn't carry US skating all by herself. She had help from Lipinski, then Hughes, then later Cohen to keep us on top and maintain 3 spots. As soon as they all left, that was basically it- no one else was present to take over. Meissner and Hughes were BARELY able to eek out 3 spots in 2007 but still no World medal that year, ending years-long streak. in 2008 the inevitable happened- 3rd spot lost but there wasn't reason to lose hope for the future yet because of the then-bright young stars we had in Nagasu, Flatt, Wagner and Zhang. Of course, 4 years later we're still floundering in second-rate position in part because each year, our best hope isn't getting any help. One (or both) of our skaters keep messing up big time at Worlds and that's one reason why we're stuck. But the bigger reason is that we have no title contender. Someone talented enough that can make a mistake or two and still eek out a podium finish. No, our skaters have to be near perfect for even a 4th place finish.
Can Gracie Gold be that title contender that we've been missing for half a decade? Again, too soon to tell and perhaps maybe even too much to expect. But here's the thing: even if she is, she's gonna need help. And where is that help going to come from?
Think about it- during the Kwan years MK didn't carry US skating all by herself. She had help from Lipinski, then Hughes, then later Cohen to keep us on top and maintain 3 spots. As soon as they all left, that was basically it- no one else was present to take over. Meissner and Hughes were BARELY able to eek out 3 spots in 2007 but still no World medal that year, ending years-long streak. in 2008 the inevitable happened- 3rd spot lost but there wasn't reason to lose hope for the future yet because of the then-bright young stars we had in Nagasu, Flatt, Wagner and Zhang. Of course, 4 years later we're still floundering in second-rate position in part because each year, our best hope isn't getting any help. One (or both) of our skaters keep messing up big time at Worlds and that's one reason why we're stuck. But the bigger reason is that we have no title contender. Someone talented enough that can make a mistake or two and still eek out a podium finish. No, our skaters have to be near perfect for even a 4th place finish.
Can Gracie Gold be that title contender that we've been missing for half a decade? Again, too soon to tell and perhaps maybe even too much to expect. But here's the thing: even if she is, she's gonna need help. And where is that help going to come from?
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- Oct 22, 2005
Gracie has four of the five things you need to be a champion right now: talent (to be able to go from no 2A and no triples to almost an entire set of triples in 4-5 months once you change coaches to someone who's method of teaching you "get" at the age of 13-14 shows at least a little talent) drive (to come back from a 6th place finish at Mids with 4 falls last season to hitting 7/7 3F+3T in the SP in one season so far and 7/7 on 3Lz+3T and 2A+3T in the LP on the season so far and to be working on the 3A shows drive), mental fortitude (didn't quit or get down on herself when the unfortunate skate at Mids happened in 2010-11 season), and an awareness of and willingness to improve on weaknesses (bringing in sports psychologist to work on the mental side of the sport after a disappointing season).
The fifth ingredient we don't know if she has yet or not - LUCK. Time will tell on that one. (Tell me that Lipinski wasn't lucky that Kwan skated first in the Olympics or that SHughes didn't get lucky that the three ladies ahead of her all made mistakes or that Kwan with the easiest 3+3 wasn't lucky that Slutskaya didn't skate to her potential when Kwan skated first in the final group).
There seems to be a plan there for Gracie. The plan for 2011-12 appears to be gain confidence and to skate consistently with big ticket items (3+3 in SP and LP) that get called as such (no <, <<, e calls). I expect that once the team gets back from JWs, there will be a plan for the Senior debut season. If it includes more Scott Brown choreography similar to this season, I will as I think she is definitely capable of more.
The fifth ingredient we don't know if she has yet or not - LUCK. Time will tell on that one. (Tell me that Lipinski wasn't lucky that Kwan skated first in the Olympics or that SHughes didn't get lucky that the three ladies ahead of her all made mistakes or that Kwan with the easiest 3+3 wasn't lucky that Slutskaya didn't skate to her potential when Kwan skated first in the final group).
There seems to be a plan there for Gracie. The plan for 2011-12 appears to be gain confidence and to skate consistently with big ticket items (3+3 in SP and LP) that get called as such (no <, <<, e calls). I expect that once the team gets back from JWs, there will be a plan for the Senior debut season. If it includes more Scott Brown choreography similar to this season, I will
as I think she is definitely capable of more. I'm just glad that she's got the "technical goods". It took 18 yrs., but finally the US has a skater that has the technical chops of Tonya Harding, America's best jumper hands down. And not just one, but TWO, with Agnes Zawadzki a monster jumper as well. And not far behind there's Christina Gao (she impressed me last year at Nationals with her jumps).
And history has proven that those with the technical chops almost always do better than the artistic skaters because they already have the most important aspect down pat ~ the jumps ~ and then later on develop the artistic skills. Of course the "ideal" is to have both, but that's very very very rare (e.g. Oksana Baiul). Jmho.
Gracie's already a Jr. National Champ, a rare feat, next thing on her list is just to medal at Jr. Worlds (only two Ladies Olympic Champions have ever won Jr. Worlds; Kristi Yamaguchi & Yuna Kim). From there hopefully she'll enter seniors next year and earn a medal on the GP, as well at Sr. Nationals, which will set her up fine for the Olympic Year, as well as Worlds if she earns 1 of 2 or 3 spots, depending on how Alissa Czisny & Ashley Wagner do next month...
And history has proven that those with the technical chops almost always do better than the artistic skaters because they already have the most important aspect down pat ~ the jumps ~ and then later on develop the artistic skills. Of course the "ideal" is to have both, but that's very very very rare (e.g. Oksana Baiul). Jmho.
Gracie's already a Jr. National Champ, a rare feat, next thing on her list is just to medal at Jr. Worlds (only two Ladies Olympic Champions have ever won Jr. Worlds; Kristi Yamaguchi & Yuna Kim). From there hopefully she'll enter seniors next year and earn a medal on the GP, as well at Sr. Nationals, which will set her up fine for the Olympic Year, as well as Worlds if she earns 1 of 2 or 3 spots, depending on how Alissa Czisny & Ashley Wagner do next month...
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- Nov 12, 2011
here are some advantages gracie has over the russians, IMO:
1. her jumps are HUGE, not just height but distance. go look at her 3+3+3 on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWrN5LHG9A
2. shes very fast
3. she's already had a growth spurt
4. adelina's been having a rough season
5. liza might withdraw and has very bad ice coverage
6. gracie has two different 3+3's in her programs, plus 2A+3T
if liza withdraws and adelina has a couple rough skates, i think it will be between her and julia. i think julia's choreography is worse than gracie's, she doesn't have the same skating skills or speed, and not nearly the height that gracie gets on her jumps. they're both due for rough skates, but we'll see. i hope neither of them do, i would like to see a good competition
1. her jumps are HUGE, not just height but distance. go look at her 3+3+3 on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWrN5LHG9A
2. shes very fast
3. she's already had a growth spurt
4. adelina's been having a rough season
5. liza might withdraw and has very bad ice coverage
6. gracie has two different 3+3's in her programs, plus 2A+3T
if liza withdraws and adelina has a couple rough skates, i think it will be between her and julia. i think julia's choreography is worse than gracie's, she doesn't have the same skating skills or speed, and not nearly the height that gracie gets on her jumps. they're both due for rough skates, but we'll see. i hope neither of them do, i would like to see a good competition
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