Grand Prix Final?

[antmanb]

Yes, but by doing that you also sort of defeat the purpose of having the final in the first place. Why not just scrap the entire GP while they're at it?

Because that would be stupid?!

The GP is fine - competitions during which skaters can get prize money, competition experience, get their programs out earlier in the season to warm them up. Then there's Europeans/4CC as "championships" that aren't worth as much as Worlds but more than GP (though admittedly the ISU need to do some work on the 4CC). The GPF sits on its own as a competition that is not as important as Worlds or Europeans (notice i have purposefully left 4CC behind at this point ). So what does it show? IF the ISU are still trying to plug the fact that CoP scores can be compared from competition to competition (which given they still have this "personal best" crap coming up all over the place they obviously still do) then why not delcare the people with the highest cummulative marks over their two point scoring competions the winner? Its all as meaningless as having the GPF anyway?

Ant

 

[hockeyfan228]

Yes, but by doing that you also sort of defeat the purpose of having the final in the first place. Why not just scrap the entire GP while they're at it?

In my opinion, the GPF has marginal purpose in an Olympic year and should be scrapped in Olympic years. The ISU can declare the champion based on the same points structure that they use for tiebreakers. Or they can scrap GPF entirely and have seventh event in a country that changes each year, like GB, Germany, Sweden, Spain, etc.

There are several purposes to the GP itself: to allow the skaters to earn money and get exposure and feedback for their programs before their own Nationals, Europeans, and 4C's; to evangelize the sport in the host countries. The TV money has shrunk, so it's not as compelling a reason.

 

[Mathman]

I think the Grand Prix Series, the Grand Prix Final, and the three Invitationals all do serve a purpose. To me, the purpose is -- to make figure skating into a sport, rather than a once-a-year or once-every-four-years extravaganza. The skaters are supposed to be competitive athletes -- well then, let them compete.

I do not subscribe to the idea that an American football player should sit out the season, then show up for the Super Bowl. Or that Tiger Woods should blow off the PGA tour and only compete four times a year in the majors. If you're a golfer, golf!

As for whether these events are "important" enough to bother with, I think that's the wrong question. At Campbell's, for instance, we will see Michelle, Irina, Sasha, and Shizuka going head to head to head to head. It doesn't get any better than that! -- never mind that the prize is "only" the $50,000 purse and not the prestige of an Olympic title.

From a fan's and a specatator's point of view, I enjoy watching Campbell's and rooting for my favorites just as much as I like Worlds.

Mathman

 

[nymkfan51]

I like Campbell's too MM. I would just prefer that in an Olympic year they not do the December Marshalls. No matter how entertaining they are, clearly they do not hold the weight of other competitions ... and the December event is ill-timed IMO.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I like Campbell's too MM. I would just prefer that in an Olympic year they not do the December Marshalls. No matter how entertaining they are, clearly they do not hold the weight of other competitions ... and the December event is ill-timed IMO.

ITA on the Marshall's December. The tweeking should have been done after Campbells, and I will have seen what I wanted to in the that showcase. The prize money is ok but the results I still consider meaningless. The end of the season Marshalls is just plain superfluous but I enjoy it as exhibition numbers.

Joe

 

[emma]

Me too...all the comps, just not Marshalls in Decemeber in an Olympic year....

 

[vixen62025]

One of the advantages of 4C's being in Colorado Springs is that Torino is at altitude, too.

Actually the altitude in Colorado Springs is much, much higher. Torino's altitude is not that high, under 400 feet.

Although I think the GP serves a purpose for the skaters, it predominantly serves a bigger (cash flow) purpose for the ISU.

I agree that the timing of the winter cheesefest is terrible, and not just this season. And although I am sure that the Russian federation would send Irina to the Olympics without doing Russian Nationals, I doubt she will skip them.

 

[R.D.]

To me, the purpose is -- to make figure skating into a sport, rather than a once-a-year or once-every-four-years extravaganza. The skaters are supposed to be competitive athletes -- well then, let them compete.

Yes, but if the top skaters don't take it seriously, the GP can't have much credibility or prestige after some time. Right now it's almost a joke. When's the last time we had a major showdown in a GPF or GP event?

Maybe FS should go back to that "once-a-year or once-every-four-years extravaganza." Doesn't seem to make a difference for the union or the skaters themselves. However, maybe after the top skaters retire, the up-and-comers will take these events seriously. I think skaters like Kwan and (some other male skater) really are setting a bad example in this regard. Of course, it doesn't help that the union is losing money and having trouble getting TV coverage and sponsorship. In that case it doesn't matter which skaters show up. But maybe it WOULD be more popular and taken more seriously if we had some top contender battles in the GP.

And of course we have the underlying reason as to why FS as a whole is losing viewership, so maybe all this debate doesn't matter in the end. FS is just not as popular as it used to be, and it will go back to being a niche event which gets some outside exposure every four years at the Olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Has the December Marshall's competition been scheduled? I haven't heard anything about it yet. Maybe they are having trouble getting skaters to commit to it, because of the bad timing.

 

[BronzeisGolden]

FS as a whole is losing viewership

Dang it! Where are those nasty, knee-whacking rivalries when you really need one?

 

[euterpe]

Has the December Marshall's competition been scheduled? I haven't heard anything about it yet. Maybe they are having trouble getting skaters to commit to it, because of the bad timing.

The December Marshall's is on the USFS TV Schedule but no location has been announced, and it is not on the USFS Events list as yet. We can hope that it does get cancelled, because the timing could hardly be worse.

 

[R.D.]

The December Marshall's is on the USFS TV Schedule but no location has been announced, and it is not on the USFS Events list as yet. We can hope that it does get cancelled, because the timing could hardly be worse.

I agree...especially if skaters are doing the GP- why should this event matter? Just scrap it- at least for this year. The fall and spring events are OK.

 

[attyfan]

Last year, Campbell's and the winter Marshall's were both judged by the ISU judges, If the winter Marshall's is again likely to cause skaters to drop out of the GPF, could the ISU refuse to sanction it? Under their letter No. 592, they threatened to sanction federations who didn't produce their top seeded for the GP -- or their qualifying skaters for the GPF. Could this have an effect?

 

[JonnyCoop]

Anyone remember how back in '96, how the USFSA got annoyed when Eldredge and Bobek went on that Nutcracker tour and weren't ready for Nationals? I fail to see how an ill-timed stupid meaningless cheesefest in an Olympic season is really that much different from an ill-timed meanngless tour. If they'd do away with stuff like these cheesefests, perhaps the market wouldn't have gotten so saturated and viewership wouldn't be down.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

To h--l with the skaters. they only get a measly prize money and only one of them gets the biggie. But the networks are the ones who make the money by allowing Marshalls commercials to blast away.

Isn't there a new Top Gun in the USFSA? Shouldn't he be thinking about these cheesfests? in conjunction with the GPs and the OLYS.

Joe

 

[euterpe]

The USFS got annoyed because Bobek tried to get a bye from the USFS to Worlds, claiming injury. They said she wouldn't have had the injury if she hadn't done the tour, so she didn't get her bye. Kwiatkowski and Lipinski went to Worlds instead, and Kwan won her first World Championship.

The USFS wasn't annoyed with Todd; he won HIS first and only World Championship in 1996. But then Todd was always an extremely diligent worker, and Bobek, well.........

 

[Mathman]

I fail to see how an ill-timed stupid meaningless cheesefest in an Olympic season is really that much different from an ill-timed meanngless tour. If they'd do away with stuff like these cheesefests, perhaps the market wouldn't have gotten so saturated and viewership wouldn't be down.

To h--l with the skaters. They only get a measly prize money and only one of them gets the biggie. But the networks are the ones who make the money by allowing Marshalls commercials to blast away.

Money talks, bs walks. If it's really true that the cheesefests make money for the network, for the sponsors, for the skaters, for the ISU and for USFS -- end of story. They won't let a "stupid meaningless" thing like preparing for the Olympics get in the way.

It all comes down to viewership. If the viewing public will watch the cheesefests but won't watch the Grand Prix events, well, too bad for us but the people have spoken. The GP gets shunted off to ESPN and the cheesfests get shown on national network TV. Life in the big city.

MM

 

[JonnyCoop]

The USFS got annoyed because Bobek tried to get a bye from the USFS to Worlds, claiming injury. They said she wouldn't have had the injury if she hadn't done the tour, so she didn't get her bye. Kwiatkowski and Lipinski went to Worlds instead, and Kwan won her first World Championship.

The USFS wasn't annoyed with Todd; he won HIS first and only World Championship in 1996. But then Todd was always an extremely diligent worker, and Bobek, well.........

True, but Todd even admitted he wasn't well-prepared for that competition. The point I was trying to make was that there seems to be a double standard re. the USFSA; if THEY want to schedule something stupid at a bad time, that's ok; if someone else wants to, that's just unacceptable.

Mathman -- ITA and I know how it works, and if the cheesefests make money, I get that. Just don't schedule them at such a dumb time. How about AFTER the Olys, when everyone's all excited about skating again???

 

[Mathman]

Jonny, you're right of course, but I am being selfish here. How will I get through the season without my Michelle fix at the Detroit Marshall's show in December?

 

[antmanb]

True, but Todd even admitted he wasn't well-prepared for that competition. The point I was trying to make was that there seems to be a double standard re. the USFSA; if THEY want to schedule something stupid at a bad time, that's ok; if someone else wants to, that's just unacceptable.

Mathman -- ITA and I know how it works, and if the cheesefests make money, I get that. Just don't schedule them at such a dumb time. How about AFTER the Olys, when everyone's all excited about skating again???

To be fair wasn't the case with Bobek that she's claimed to have an eye infection for a period of time that stopped her training, but her story came undone because at the time she said she had the eye infection that stopped her training she was doing that tour? She had also just assumed that the USFSA would grant her a medical bye through to worlds...imagine if she had been granted that bye, and michelle her and Tonia had gone to worlds, leaving Tara behind...without that first worlds experience, would she have done as well the next year, and the next???

Ant