- Joined
- Mar 12, 2013
Oh oops! Didn't see that, sorry about that
One since 1988 would be..Sotnikova vs Tuktamysheva, perhaps?
Great rivalries in last 25 years
- Thread starter pangtongfan
- Start date
Oh oops! Didn't see that, sorry about that
One since 1988 would be..Sotnikova vs Tuktamysheva, perhaps?
Mao was much closer to Joannie than she was to Yuna in 2010.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2012
Someone defined rivarly and it has nothing to do with scores. Again didnt Mao win 2010 worlds after the olympics. I get you dont like mao but objetivity is important
But after 2010 Worlds, Mao never placed over Yuna again(so far). So, IMO, ever since 2011 Worlds, Mao wasn't Yuna's rival. I think Carolina should be considered as Mao's rival as of now, not Yuna-unless you include Carolina in Mao vs Yuna rivalry, too.
Not sure what was going on with Yuna at Worlds 2010 but she should never have competed. It was obvious that the Olympics took everything out of her even more then the other skaters. She looked more nervous than at the Olympics and made bizarre mistakes. That was the only way Mao was going to beat Yuna.
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- Dec 22, 2012
Without running the risk of making this a mao vs yuna again see the defintion of rivarly in page 2. Because not all threads lead to yuna is better than mao as much as some posters insist on making them so. The thread is simply about rivarly not about who scored what.
Oh boy, here we go again....would've, could've, should've
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
Regardless of who scored what...:sarcasm:, Yuna's latest defeat was in 2011 WC by Ando Miki.
Actually Ando is the 2 time World Champion (like Yuna & Mao)
Why don't we also call it 'Yuna-Ando Rivalry'....?
Actually Ando is the 2 time World Champion (like Yuna & Mao)
Why don't we also call it 'Yuna-Ando Rivalry'....?
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2013
Because Yuna and Ando aren't main rivals. Yuna and Mao have been competing against each other since juniors. Yuna and Mao are mentioned in the same breath most times, in that, when you talk about Yuna, you don't compare her to Ando, you compare her to Mao, and vice-versa. Kwan's main rival was never Butyrskaya, even though Maria beat her at Worlds. Slutskaya was the one. Sarah Hughes beat Irina, Michelle, and Sasha in at SLC. However, I wouldn't rate Sarah Hughes as a main rival of Kwan as I would Sasha or Irina or Tara. Carolina is similar to Maria in that respect. As was Joannie. They may beat one, or both, of Mao-Yuna, but they're not rivals.
Again, I'm sure at the top that everyone is a rival, at least a little bit, because you are going up against everyone. However, one way to KNOW who someone's chief rival is, is by asking their fans. Ask MOST ANY Yuna or Mao fan "Who is your skater's Chief Rival?" 9 out of 10 times, they'll say the other. Jeremy Abbott beat both Johnny and Evan multiple times in 2008, 2009, and 2010, but if you ask Johnny and Evan fans "Who was Johnny/Evan's Chief Rival: Jeremy or Evan/Johnny?" 9 out of 10 times, they'll say Evan/Johnny.
As for Yuna's 2010 Worlds performance, it was extremely predictable. The Worlds after an Olympic Games tend to be unpredictable, in that: people retire, people don't go, and the skaters who do go have endured a VERY long, and stressful season (especially for the OGM and other medalists) and there tends to be a mental and physical letdown, as they AREN'T building towards Worlds like a usual year, but to the Oly Games.
Also, I understand what you were saying Jammers about how "that's the only way Mao could beat Yuna." However, you must understand that even if you may not have meant it in a negative way, it was taken negatively. The ice is slippery, and Mao produced, Yuna did not. Mao won, and she deserved to win, because Yuna did not perform. Similarly, we can all realize that Miki Ando took advantage of years where Mao and Yuna made mistakes, weren't competing, or were having down years. However, Miki DID take advantage, and full credit to her, she earned her World Titles fair and square. The ISU doesn't award World Titles with asterisks, and neither should we.
Again, I'm sure at the top that everyone is a rival, at least a little bit, because you are going up against everyone. However, one way to KNOW who someone's chief rival is, is by asking their fans. Ask MOST ANY Yuna or Mao fan "Who is your skater's Chief Rival?" 9 out of 10 times, they'll say the other. Jeremy Abbott beat both Johnny and Evan multiple times in 2008, 2009, and 2010, but if you ask Johnny and Evan fans "Who was Johnny/Evan's Chief Rival: Jeremy or Evan/Johnny?" 9 out of 10 times, they'll say Evan/Johnny.
As for Yuna's 2010 Worlds performance, it was extremely predictable. The Worlds after an Olympic Games tend to be unpredictable, in that: people retire, people don't go, and the skaters who do go have endured a VERY long, and stressful season (especially for the OGM and other medalists) and there tends to be a mental and physical letdown, as they AREN'T building towards Worlds like a usual year, but to the Oly Games.
Also, I understand what you were saying Jammers about how "that's the only way Mao could beat Yuna." However, you must understand that even if you may not have meant it in a negative way, it was taken negatively. The ice is slippery, and Mao produced, Yuna did not. Mao won, and she deserved to win, because Yuna did not perform. Similarly, we can all realize that Miki Ando took advantage of years where Mao and Yuna made mistakes, weren't competing, or were having down years. However, Miki DID take advantage, and full credit to her, she earned her World Titles fair and square. The ISU doesn't award World Titles with asterisks, and neither should we.
Thanks Olympia that makes perfect sense to me and reading this is hard not to include Sasha as one of Michelle's biggest rivals at the time. Certainly, she was Michelle's biggest rival within the USA for the last couple of years and Michelle always triumphed at nationals but with Sasha around no way was that a given outcome. And of course, Sasha got the better of Michelle at two worlds. She wasn't Michelle's only rival during those years but a rival for sure. Clearly, Sasha is always controversial and some believe she was overscored but the judges loved her and I'm sure Michelle thought of her as a major threat. Irina and Shizuka probably did too.
Since the thread is about "great rivalries" I'm on the fence about whether Michelle-Sasha is a great rivalry. For me it was so fun to watch but somehow I think Michelle-Irina and Michelle-Tara will be remembered as a greater rivalry probably because they traded the biggest prizes more. Flattfan does have a point that by the time Sasha got the better of Michelle at worlds, Michelle was probably on the decline (but still good enough to win nationals and bronze at worlds
) But Irina and Tara overcame Michelle more at the peak of her skating. I say the Kwan/Chen showdown in 1996 was probably the most exquisite of Michelle's career.
I think of Michelle's victories over her greatest rivals the best were probably: 1996 Worlds, Chen Lu, 1998 Nationals, Lipinski and 2003 Worlds, Irina.
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- Dec 22, 2012
I can always expect your Mao quote to be negative. Mao went to the Olympics too and took everything out of her. So your point is? So much Mao hate cannot be healthty
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2010
Why is it not considered an Ando-Asada rivalry when they're both from Japan and competed in the same era and have two World titles each?
Because there's more to a rivalry than titles or scores.
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- Jun 21, 2003
2001 Worlds, right? (Irina wasn't at 2003 worlds.)
It's a shame that Lipinski's career was cut short. The USFSA was salivating over the prospects of a Michelle-Tara rivalry for years to come after 1998.
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2013
And 2000 Worlds, where she came back and beat both Irina AND Maria.
If you asked me in 1999 if i was glad Tara was gone, as a rabid Michelle fan I would have said: "HELL YES." However, as time and distance has tempered me (somewhat), I agree, that Tara's career was way too short. I may have actually started to like her had she undergone the "artistic blossoming" that Michelle did in 95-96...
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
I think she received a significant amount of pressure to compete there after missing out on 4CC in Korea. Adam Rippon, her training mate at the time, even noted that Yuna wasn't herself during the training leading up to that Worlds and that it seemed like she had more pressure than she did prior to the Olympics.
There was definitely an Asada-Ando rivalry, IMO, but their rivalry was more about the Japan #1 slot. I certainly don't consider it "one of the greatest", and while Mao is certainly more decorated than Miki, both have two World titles under their belts. It's more like the Michelle-Sasha rivalry, but with less cattiness(?) and with equal amounts of World golds on both sides.
I think my thoughts progressed in much the same way yours did: later on, I wished for Tara's career to be longer so she could mature as an artist. However, I didn't get a great sense of growth from Tara as a pro skater during the post-1998 season, so I'm not sure we would have seen any blossoming from her had she remained an eligible skater. Keeping in mind that her hip impeded her in terms of jumps, there was still the chance for her to increase her musicality, and she didn't seem to go in that direction. After all, Katia Gordeyeva as a pro singles skater had weak jumps most of the time, but she could create such a mood on the ice notwithstanding. Tara didn't seem to have that capability, or at least she chose not to develop it that I could see.
I agree that Michelle's greatest triumphs were 1996 Worlds, 1998 Nationals, and 2000 and 2001 Worlds. I give the edge to 2001 Worlds over 2000 because I just adore the Black Swan program, both the skating and the music.
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2010
Saw this linked somewhere. I would just like to leave this here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADvfXJaxuFM
Hmm. the one where Irina pouted over her silver and I think Michelle was recapturing her title after having lost it. (NOT that I'm happy that Irina was sad! I like Irina. I was thrilled with her '05 victory.)
I wonder what would have happened if Lipinski had been able/wanted to continue. It's hard to get motivated after already winning Olympic gold (see Sarah Hughes). Even though it took her a while to find her path, Tara probably made a wise choice.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
I definately agree with you.:agree:
