Hawayek & Baker withdraw from US Nationals
- Thread starter labgoat
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2007
So sorry to hear they are struggling so much this year. I will miss seeing them greatly.
I mean they are the clear number 2 and C/B weren’t having the best season so it would be silly to not send them otherwise they may not get 3 spots for next year
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
why should that be any different than petitioning for the World Team after any other kind of injury?
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2022
And why not? They are the US team with the 2nd highest Season's Best by over 8 points on Green/Parsons (who have the 3rd highest SB) and the 2nd highest Season's average by almost 11 points on Carreira/Ponomarenko (who have the 3rd highest Season's average).
It would be idiotic to not send them to Worlds (or 4CC if they wanted to go).
Also, I genuinely doubt that anyone would have raised as much as their eyebrows at them petitioning for the World Team if it had been any physical illness or injury, so I don't see how it should be something that is unlikely to succeed now that it's also related to mental health and not just physical health.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
Sad they won't be there to compete. Dealing with mental health takes time and if some injuries have precise timelines, others do not, and mental health definitely doesn't have a "timeline" for recovery.
I wonder if they will be ready in a couple months from now. Is it long enough to address the difficulties they are going through? This is really what they and the US Fed need to monitor seriously. Injured athletes can easily make their case with doctor's assessments. It's more difficult to do so with mental health or is it not ?
I wonder if they will be ready in a couple months from now. Is it long enough to address the difficulties they are going through? This is really what they and the US Fed need to monitor seriously. Injured athletes can easily make their case with doctor's assessments. It's more difficult to do so with mental health or is it not ?
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2007
I would hope they would be seeing a therapist or perhaps a sports psychologist who could help them assess this. Withdrawing to have been an enormously difficult thing to do. This would most likely have been their first senior US medal.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2015
they have had senior US medals before... 4 bronzes... do you mean silver?
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Because I'm looking at the published selection criteria, rather than injecting my feelings into the matter.
There's lots of discussion in that printed matter relating to physical injury and illness, and physician's evaluations, and subsequent monitoring to evaluate ability to compete.... I'm not sure if/how the selection committee will evaluate a waiver request based on prioritizing mental health rather than a physical ailment.
And as far as I know, this has never come up before, so no one else should confidently predict the outcome either.
Edit: And if we kept to my well-known practical and fair solution of top Nationals finishers, this wouldn't be an issue. Get well and better luck next year.
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2014
I see, you are right I had not reviewed the criteria.
I am not injecting my feelings either. That appears to be an oversight from the selection committee, as medical professionals could speak to mental health as well as physical health. Perhaps that will inspire them to add this category.
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2018
I am sorry to hear anyone has to withdraw from their National championships especially a team who is so accomplished and skates with so much joy. They did state above that their physical injuries have lead to mental challenges, which is legitimate. I hope their petition is granted and that they get the time they need in the meantime and can make a decision about World's that is best for them.
I'll miss them at Nationals and hope for the best for them both.
I'll miss them at Nationals and hope for the best for them both.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
The questions you ask in the second paragraph are very relevant. Warning: Long Post
From the selection criteria:
Athletes/teams who qualified to compete but did not compete or complete both segments of the competition at any of the events listed above due to injury or illness, verified by U.S. Figure Skating medical personnel, may still be considered for selection by petitioning to the International Committee for nomination to the World Team. A petition in writing for consideration must be submitted to the International Committee Chair prior to the International Committee meeting for the petitioner’s respective event.
And...
To be considered for selection by petition, the athlete must be able to prove competitive readiness by performing complete competition programs (SP/RD, FS/FD) with all planned program elements by a specified date, as approved and reviewed by a monitoring panel to 4 be determined by the International Committee. In addition, U.S. Figure Skating medical personnel must verify that the athlete(s) will be physically ready to compete at the World Championships.
I don't know if "prioritizing mental health" falls under the category of illness or injury, and I don't know that it doesn't. The final step of Team Selection is an evaluation of physical readiness, not mental readiness. And how that's determined is also unknown, at least to me.
Also relevant:
The purpose of the selection is to select the athletes who will have the best chance for success at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships to win the maximum number of medals and future berths for the World Team the following season.
As you know, I think this should not be the purpose of Nationals and/or Team Selection (it should be transparency and fairness to athletes given a level playing field)... but whatever. Let's run with this.
While I dislike pre-awarding placements by virtue of prognostication.... I think it's fair to assume that C/B are likely to finish on the podium and H/B are not, so World medals would not be a consideration. But slots for next year would be. In the absence of H/B, one of the other two teams, most likely G/P and C/P, would have to finish Top 10 to secure three spots for next year. Given the absence of Russian dance teams altogether and only two Canadian dance teams... well, let's say it's a fairly good shot.
Finally, there's the issue of precedent. I've already mentioned that I don't think there's been a waiver request made on the basis of mental health... so that's one precedent that would be set. And I don't think a medical waiver has ever been awarded to a skater/team that is not a prior National Champion or World Medalist.- so that's a precedent that would be broken.
I don't know how this plays out. My heart says yes! But my brain says no.
