Ice in Dortmund

[Ptichka]

I just read an interesting suggesting in a Russian article about Worlds. I explained Michelle's problems as resulting from the ice in Dortmund being too hard. It says that Michelle is used to much softer ice, and couldn't really feel the ice. Any thoughts?

 

[Verbalgirl77]

That's new, I don't think I heard Michelle mention the ice as being a factor.

 

[SK8GR8]

Well, I couldn't read the article as I don't understand Russian, but I can't stand it when skaters blame the ice, especially a skater at the senior international level. Sure, ice conditions differ, but someone who has competed that much should be able to adapt to differing conditions. I have skated on every kind of ice surface including ponds and plastic ice, and I don't think it really makes much of a difference unless they are not running the Zam as much as they should. Sometimes at my home rink they don't make ice before a freestyle session, after a public session. This sucks because it is harder to skate through all the ruts created from repetitive circles around the rink. But that's just my cheap rink and I know that they make the ice enough at a World championship.

Perhaps the article was referring to her being concerned about debris on the ice after the streaker, which would be understandable. But as she said herself, she checked the ice and it was fine and she was ready, so she went out and skated.

 

[Ptichka]

SK8GR8, this is NOT about anyone making any excuses. Basically, the author of the article, Arthur Werner, was commenting on what he saw at practices. He says that Michelle was extremely tentative, and complained to Rafael that she wasn't feeling the ice like she was used to. Once again, this is NOT ABOUT EXCUSES. I was just curious to see what people thought about this, that's all.

 

[PrincessLeppard]

The commentators on Eurosport said the men in the early QR were having trouble with the ice being too hard; they couldn't get their picks in for the lutz, etc.

Make of that what you will.

Laura

 

[RealtorGal]

Michelle also said she wished she'd practiced on that ice that morning before the QR because of the ice problem. I didn't find it to be an excuse per se, just a comment on the condition of the ice. Oh, well, everyone was in the same boat.

 

[heyang]

Ii find that experienced athletes are much more attuned to the slightest variations than a novice.

For instance, I've only been golfing for 2 years. I'm just trying to develop a decent swing. I'm not even close to deliberatlye slicing or hooking a ball. I can tell the difference in the weight of a club, but don't feel the 'give' in it - unless it's a super stiff old club. I have several friends and acquaintences who can sense the difference in the softness of the ball. So, I guess I'll be keeping my $1 balls while they are hitting their $3 balls. We still lose them at the same rate.

Anyway, my point is that MK and others probably can tell the difference between soft and hard ice. Since MK hasn't been competing outside North America for the last 2 seasons, adjusting to different ice may take her a bit longer than it used to. She acknowledged this by attending both practices before the SP and it may have been the cause of some of her tentativeness.

 

[Jaana]

Michelle also said she wished she'd practiced on that ice that morning before the QR because of the ice problem. I didn't find it to be an excuse per se, just a comment on the condition of the ice. Oh, well, everyone was in the same boat.

Yes, the ice must have been as hard for everone in the same group. I think the practices are also for skaters to get accustomed to the ice?

Marjaana

 

[dizzydi]

I thought Michelle's comment was something to the effect that she didn't feel like she had her skates firmly under her. I didn't think she was making excuses at all but just commenting that "she" wasn't comfortable at that particular time. I felt it meant that she wasn't having a good day or moment or whatever. My impression was Michelle was taking responsibility for her errors.

Sometimes I think it's unfair when the interviewer asks the skaters why they had a bad skate or simply why they fell on some particular element. Isn't it obvious that they made a mistake? How do they expect them to respond-----"I'm tired, drank too much last night".

Sorry but I honestly lose patience with the idiotic questions asked by commentators.

Dizzy

 

[SK8GR8]

SK8GR8, this is NOT about anyone making any excuses. Basically, the author of the article, Arthur Werner, was commenting on what he saw at practices. He says that Michelle was extremely tentative, and complained to Rafael that she wasn't feeling the ice like she was used to. Once again, this is NOT ABOUT EXCUSES. I was just curious to see what people thought about this, that's all.

I explained Michelle's problems as resulting from the ice in Dortmund being too hard. It says that Michelle is used to much softer ice, and couldn't really feel the ice. Any thoughts?

Well, I wasn't necessarily referring to Michelle making excuses--I did just say that I don't like it when skaters at the senior international level blame the ice--I didn't mean Michelle specifically. You asked for thoughts and those are my thoughts.

However, in the post that started this thread, you specifically say, "I(t?) explained Michelle's problems as resulting from the ice being too hard." That certainly sounds like blaming problems on the ice to me. But like I said, I can't read the article.

 

[Mathman]

I tranlated the article using the Google toolbar's automatic translating feature. Here is the first paragraph, according to this remarkable technological wizardry:

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“U?????????? ?????????? ???????????? ????????? ”Union?-
????? ???????? ? ?????????? ????????. ? ???????? ????????????
???????????? ??????????????? ???????? ????? ?????????, ???????
? ? ?????? ???????????, ?? ? ??????? ????????????? ?? ?????. ????
? ???????? ????????? “Holiday on ice? ????? ?? ? 1983 ?
1995 ????? ?????? ?????????? ??????, ? ? 1964,
1980 ? ???? ??????????? ???? ?? ????????? ???????. ? ??????? ??
???? ????????? (?
1964 ?????? ? ?????) ? ?? ?????, ??? ?? ????????? ????????? ????
????? ??????? ????, ???????? ??????, ?? ???? ?? ???, ?? ? ???? ???
?? ? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????????, ???, ??????, ?
1980. ????????, ??? ??? ????? ????????? ????? ? ?????? ????? ???
?? ??

So I guess that settles it!

However, according to Ptichka (who does read Russian), it is Mr. Werner, not Michelle, who is speculating that the ice was too hard. Quite a few of the skaters in the first ladies qualifying group tanked (Fumie for instance), not just Michelle.

On another thread some of the men skaters were saying that it was difficult to establish a good toe pick for the Lutz because of this problem.

Mathman

 

[BravesSkateFan]

However, in the post that started this thread, you specifically say, "I(t?) explained Michelle's problems as resulting from the ice being too hard." That certainly sounds like blaming problems on the ice to me. But like I said, I can't read the article.

It was the article that was blaming the ice. Michelle simply said that she couldn't feel the ice well. That sounds to me like she's putting the blame on herself. She didn't say "I skated bad because the ice was too hard," she said "I skated bad becuase I couldn't feel the ice. She then took step to fix that by attending 2 practices before the SP. It sounds to me like she was taking responsibility for her own actions.

 

[sarahmistral]

I love this board...

on another board, a poster suggested that it was a conspiracy to mess up Michelle in the QR I'm glad to hear that there were other complaints; not that I bought the conspiracy theory for a second, but it's good to hear that people are pretty much seeing the same thing here.

Sarah

 

[Zanzibar]

Hardness of ice does matter, different skaters have different
preferences. Yagudin likes the ice fairly soft (warmer temp ice) but then again he rarely sharpens his blades, which also really
varies among skaters as to how often they sharpen.

Skaters at the shows will sometimes discuss with the ice makers
the temp and firmness of the ice and it can be adjusted with enough notice. During comp's don't know who gets the final say, but obviously not the skaters.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

This is the first time I've read anything on 'hard ice' v. 'soft ice' amd I'm wondering how a Russian reporter would know of MK's preference.

Which brings me to the question of whether the Host Country decides on the freezing point of the ice.

I would have assumed that 'soft' ice is produced from previous skaters .

Joe

 

[berthes ghost]

Joe: hard vs soft has to do with the process of how the ice was made (built up over time) and at what temperature the arena is kept.

For a good example of too soft ice, refer back to 03 worlds in DC and it's puddles.

The ISU seems to have little or no rules governing conditions (the conditions of outdoor events sounds like it was a free-for-all). I'm always shocked by how the ISU books events at rinks of various sizes and then we hear all these comments from skaters about the rink being too small to do thier Lutz etc...

Anyway, hard/soft has to do with the spring in the ice and how much it gives or doesn't give when you jump, similar to the difference between running on concrete vs. asphault vs. dirt (if you jog, you'll know what I mean).

IIRC, Kwan's comments were made at a general press thingy after her skate, and were reported in various sources. The Russian article quoted here had just picked it up from the general press release, not interviewed her separately.

 

[2loop2002]

Sports Illustrated had an article recently about how the quality of ice affects the quality of play in the NHL. It's not really figure skating related (obviously ), but very interesting about how many different factors affect the ice. Everything from the minerals dissolved in the water to which other performances have recently used the venue affects the ice surface. The NHL has even created a ranking survey to get feedback from the teams about the quality of ice at various rinks around the country. Icemakers in the southern parts of the USA tend to struggle more to maintain the ice due to the higher humidity. If it's hard to keep a consistent ice quality throughout one country with only one main governing body (the NHL); I can't imagine how much harder it is for the ISU to do so throughout the world while dealing with various federations.

2loop