I found many skaters changed edge to inside right before rotating when they did a forward outside choctaw. I'd like to know is this minor change of edge technically acceptable? Based on the definition, choctaw should be done directly from outside edge to inside edge or vice versa. However, I saw this minor change of edge even on the top ice dancers, so I'm really confused with it. I know choctaw is a really special steps that has a lot exceptions, and I just want to be more clear of the identification.
Identification of forward outside choctaw
- Thread starter Larissa98
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2019
I'm not an expect on outside choktaws by any means, or the mechanics of outside choktaws, so I have to go on my experience of watching and executing them. In free skating most turns are unclean, but get called to different standards and requirements of ice dance, so i'll talk on the ice dance perspective.
Some types of turns, are almost never perfect. Every tech panel looks for something different, and it's about making the turn undeniably a good turn from tech panel camera views. But depending on where the tech panel camera is looking, it can be very difficult to tell.
Forwards outside open chocktaws (where the free foot places down in front of the foot on the initial edge are notoriously difficult, and I'm not sure I ever saw one perfectly executed to the definition of chocktaw. Even in dance holds, either the skater will have the smallest hop orthe last few cm of the curve will almost always be a flat edge or inside, simply because of its ridiculously difficult nature (and arguably biology has a lot to do with its execution). Most tech panels in argentine tango were strict with key points, but even those who got them still possibly had these features. For most people who don't have ridiculous natural turnout, it feels to me like an impossible turn to be perfect with the edges (without jumping or scratching etc). To do it to a high (not perfect) degree of mastery, strong edges and ankles are needed. If somebody can post a video showing perfect edge transition I'll be interested.
Forward outside closed choktaws are much easier, it just requires the weight to be in the correct place and have good kneebend. Ankle manipulation is not required, simply sitting back in the curve and stepping onto the inside edge and ensuring the initial ankle remains on the outside until lifting it can result in perfect outside to inside transfer. That being said, it won't neccessarily be the prettiest choktaw or most correct in terms of weight distribution, it's a lot more complicated than that. Still, the forward outside closed choktaws is one of my best friends. Unhelpfully though, most "How to" tutorials on youtube demonstrate an incorrectly executed turn, or a turn executed to free skating standards. But this turn is definitely possible to get a fully correct outside to inside edge transfer.
It's worth noting, that rather confusingly for short periods the outside edge can travel on an inside circle (i.e. the ankle/blade being on an outside edge but going back on itself around the circle). This is hard to explain, but happens on some turns. also use the example of cantilever, where the blades can go in an outside or flat direction whilst being on an inside edge.
Some types of turns, are almost never perfect. Every tech panel looks for something different, and it's about making the turn undeniably a good turn from tech panel camera views. But depending on where the tech panel camera is looking, it can be very difficult to tell.
Forwards outside open chocktaws (where the free foot places down in front of the foot on the initial edge are notoriously difficult, and I'm not sure I ever saw one perfectly executed to the definition of chocktaw. Even in dance holds, either the skater will have the smallest hop orthe last few cm of the curve will almost always be a flat edge or inside, simply because of its ridiculously difficult nature (and arguably biology has a lot to do with its execution). Most tech panels in argentine tango were strict with key points, but even those who got them still possibly had these features. For most people who don't have ridiculous natural turnout, it feels to me like an impossible turn to be perfect with the edges (without jumping or scratching etc). To do it to a high (not perfect) degree of mastery, strong edges and ankles are needed. If somebody can post a video showing perfect edge transition I'll be interested.
Forward outside closed choktaws are much easier, it just requires the weight to be in the correct place and have good kneebend. Ankle manipulation is not required, simply sitting back in the curve and stepping onto the inside edge and ensuring the initial ankle remains on the outside until lifting it can result in perfect outside to inside transfer. That being said, it won't neccessarily be the prettiest choktaw or most correct in terms of weight distribution, it's a lot more complicated than that. Still, the forward outside closed choktaws is one of my best friends. Unhelpfully though, most "How to" tutorials on youtube demonstrate an incorrectly executed turn, or a turn executed to free skating standards. But this turn is definitely possible to get a fully correct outside to inside edge transfer.
It's worth noting, that rather confusingly for short periods the outside edge can travel on an inside circle (i.e. the ankle/blade being on an outside edge but going back on itself around the circle). This is hard to explain, but happens on some turns. also use the example of cantilever, where the blades can go in an outside or flat direction whilst being on an inside edge.
