Igor Shpilband fired

[nevergonnadance]

Nice try at sounding like a lawyer. But I think it is more complicated than that.

It was an excellent use of logic so I completely understand your hostility. The complications are complications you've made up and don't relate at all to the issues with which we've been presented. A lot of people just plain old ignore them. The debate goes like this - "I don't believe the explanation we've been given! I'm too impatient to read carefully! I'm interpreting according to my own speculation and then I'm going to lecture on it!

That's not like a lawyer at all, true.

Here's an example:

Zoueva's choreography is highly relational to coaching.

Coaching isn't the conflict; time and availability is. When is Igor running his own business? It's not a side business; it's concurrent with his team coaching. There's your conflict of interest. D/W and V/M and the Shibs find themselves having to schedule themselves around Igor's decreased availability. Marina apparently reacts by scheduling them anyway and working without him, while Igor feels he should have been accommodated. I think the skaters agree with Marina. Arctic Edge said nothing about extracurricular pursuits. It said "Igor isn't there for them." Marina said it by saying "inside" the business we have together. HER stuff is outside. What's the difference? When it happens. Does it interfere with the training of the top teams? They don't mean does it help a rival. It's if V/M are scheduled 7:00 a.m. and they're accustomed to Igor being available then, and he's consistently not cause he's busy with his "own" skaters, Houston, we have a problem.

Igor seems to have been taking time he's supposed to be available for his and Marina's skaters and bringing his own skaters to Canton, and coaching them according to a schedule that conflicts with the time he's supposed to be available to coaching team skaters. Try something similar at your own job; see how long you're allowed to get away with it no matter how successful you've been or how much people like you. OTOH, if you moonlight on a lunch hour, weekends, before work, on days off and other free time, your own time, outside of work - no problem. That's what Marina does. She's not keeping Tessa and Scott waiting while she's choreographing some pairs team.

The issue with Igor is he was contracted with Marina to coach at the Arctic Edge training center. Marina and Igor are both, presumably, free to do whatever they want on the side. If Igor wants to take one of his contractual days off to go coach some other ice dance team, he can.

He's not doing it on the freaking side! How many interpretations of "not there for them." do we think there are??? He's doing it inside the schedule he's supposed to work out with Marina in coaching the Canton teams. Honestly, D/W, V/M and the Shibs all co-sign a bloodless coup because they, too, think Igor should just sit by the phone in his side time? It's because when they're accustomed to working with their tech coach, he ain't there. How many times do you think that when they're accustomed to working with Marina, it turns out Marina can't cause she's doing choreography for some pairs team in her side business? I bet never. Hell, the figure skaters themselves - D/W and V/M - have been known to work with and help out teammates and other figure skaters. Bet Tessa isn't saying to Scott "I can't do training today, I've promised so-and-so to help them with some transitions!"

And there is a conflict of interest because if she is in the best interests of her current clients/athletes how can it be in their best interests that she choreograph competitiors programs or even national team members unless she creates some monstrocity.

Because the conflict of interest isn't about coaching rival or competitive teams. It's not about what he's doing but when he's doing it and the way that impacts Arctic Edge's training program.

Regardless this all smells bad. I think it is so sad. We all have different opinons and no one can agree on anything.

That's often happens when people have competing fantasies. There's the situation as it's been presented, and then there's what people want to be true instead, and there's no common ground.

 

[DianaSelene]

OTOH, if you moonlight on a lunch hour, weekends, before work and on days off and other free time, your own time, outside of work - no problem. That's what Marina does. She's not keeping Tessa and Scott waiting while she's choreographing some pairs team.

While I do not know much about Yankowskas/Reagan so far and how much time they get from Zoueva as compared to the ice dance teams, I did already say that Zoueva is listed as their COACH, not choreographer which means she spends a lot more time on them than just three hours of choreography. Again, I do not know how much she helps them, but it is inside not outside.

 

[nevergonnadance]

While I do not know much about Yankowskas/Reagan so far and how much time they get from Zoueva as compared to the ice dance teams, I did already say that Zoueva is listed as their COACH, not choreographer which means she spends a lot more time on them than just three hours of choreography. Again, I do not know how much she helps them, but it is inside not outside.

Last year Caitlyn quoted Igor several times. She was working with him a lot. He told her she could do ice dance. If this hadn't happened, perhaps we'd see "Zoueva/Shpilband" as the team's coach. The Canton team has room in the schedule for more teams, but not even they can make double booking work. Marina (and, formerly, Igor) didn't double book or make the Canton skaters accommodate or work around extracurricular pursuits. Caitlyn wasn't extracurricular. They fit her in. But now, with Igor, it's happening. There's a time conflict. He either won't or is too time pressed to do both and it's the priority skaters who are being neglected. That's all we can take away from what we've been given so far.

When the coaching team per its arrangement with Arctic Edge takes on a new team, they fit it into the existing schedule. But, if one of the team is taking on "a lot of skaters" (Igor's words) and scheduling them when he's supposed to be available for the Canton team's schedule, that's the problem. If Caitlyn is part of the Canton team, what Igor does with his own skating business better not conflict with her expected time either.

The info we've been given, little as it is, says that's the problem. Inside, not outside. Caitlyn seems to be "inside' as part of the Canton skaters, just like V/M, D/W, the Shibs and the other teams. I bet Marina isn't bumping V/M, D/W or the Shibs for Caitlyn. She does that schedule work-up on the weekend, that she used to do with Igor, in conjunction with the skaters, and there's no conflict. Caitlyn based on her quotes since she's been in Michigan is inside that system.

I don't understand Skateboy's logic at all when he went on about Marina choreographing for other, rival skaters being a conflict of interest. That's not considered a conflict of interest at Canton. The skating program with D/W and V/M in it wouldn't exist if it were!

Whenever Marina and Igor were asked how it worked, their answers were practical. They paid scrupulous attention to the schedule so all the teams got the attention they'd contracted for. When working with any particular team, that team got Marina and Igor's best effort creatively and technically. It was helped because the teams were very different - that's a plus. It's not about creative vision or hogging your coach because you don't want anyone else to have the benefit of their expertise. It's about making sure each team at the rink gets the very best the team has to offer; a schedule they can rely upon, a training strategy they can depend upon, an efficient, focused coaching program. If all of a sudden the tech work becomes something that needs to be rescheduled or happen at an unexpected time, that's going to mess up the system and piss people off. Based on what Arctic Edge said and what Marina said (she was way more diplomatic) - the conflict is time management. He's "not there for them." Why not? Well, his other business is messing up the schedule and he expected everyone would work around. He's doing it outside the matrix of the Canton schedule, but inside the time set aside for the priority Canton skaters.

I wonder if Igor thought his warm, longstanding relationships with the top teams would make them look the other way. It's interesting that they all managed to be out of town when he was fired and yet showed up right on schedule back to the rink as soon as the axe had dropped. That's the actions of skaters who want a professionally run operation like the one Shpilband/Zoueva set up for almost 10 years, and aren't interested in turning it into one based on personalities and relationships. That never works out; it turns to messy politics. I know a lot of fans have the agenda of wanting Virtue Moir away from Marina so anything that happens becomes fodder for the argument they need to go. What a waste of energy - there's no reality to it based on the decisions Virtue Moir have made consistently since working with her. Most of the time when Scott is asked about his coach he answers about Marina. Everybody has an opinion and nobody is going to agree. I think Marina is a very smart woman, smarter than most people, impatient with nonsense, strong, practical and professional, and doesn't get sucked into a lot of the power tripping crap that many others try and fail with. She doesn't have to because she's extremely talented and successful and never forgets the bottom line is skating, not politics. That irony is how many fans decide this makes her the most Machiavellian coach of modern times!

 

[Violet Bliss]

As well, choreography time is off season time when training is less intense, with no competition, traveling and necessary psychological support and availability. IOW, there is more time for such "moonlighting" without conflict of interest against the regular students.

 

[nevergonnadance]

As well, choreography time is off season time when training is less intense, with no competition, traveling and necessary psychological support and availability. IOW, there is more time for such "moonlighting" without conflict of interest against the regular students.

Yes, in some respects, once the priority teams have their programs. Until that happens, off-season it's a pretty intense period of work; the time skaters need their coaches most. The difference between choreography and coaching is the time commitment. Choreography is first some conversation about music and ideas. Then it's make some decisions, cut the music, work out the composition, take the check, and the skater returns to his/her training center for the rest of the season. I've read many interviews with skaters who've gone somewhere for choreography and it's been anything from a few hours to a weekend, but only a couple of hours each day even on the weekend and that's it. It's way easier to moonlight doing choreography than it is to manage two full-time coaching programs without schedule conflicts. For someone like Marina she's got such great solid skills, has an internalized database of music, movement and other references just about second to none, and is so brilliant at at fitting movement to music, she can probably cough up a very good program for someone while brushing her teeth. Then it's done. The client leaves with the dvd of the new program and spends the rest of the summer working with their coach. Coaching is a whole different deal. It's ongoing. Then there's the idea of making sure your training center's skaters remain your priority while establishing a separate coaching school of your own with "a lot of skaters" at the same time, ongoing. Good luck, unless you can also bend space and time.

 

[KKonas]

It was an excellent use of logic so I completely understand your hostility. The complications are complications you've made up and don't relate at all to the issues with which we've been presented. A lot of people just plain old ignore them. The debate goes like this - "I don't believe the explanation we've been given! I'm too impatient to read carefully! I'm interpreting according to my own speculation and then I'm going to lecture on it!

That's not like a lawyer at all, true.

Here's an example:

Coaching isn't the conflict; time and availability is. When is Igor running his own business? It's not a side business; it's concurrent with his team coaching. There's your conflict of interest. D/W and V/M and the Shibs find themselves having to schedule themselves around Igor's decreased availability. Marina apparently reacts by scheduling them anyway and working without him, while Igor feels he should have been accommodated. I think the skaters agree with Marina. Arctic Edge said nothing about extracurricular pursuits. It said "Igor isn't there for them." Marina said it by saying "inside" the business we have together. HER stuff is outside. What's the difference? When it happens. Does it interfere with the training of the top teams? They don't mean does it help a rival. It's if V/M are scheduled 7:00 a.m. and they're accustomed to Igor being available then, and he's consistently not cause he's busy with his "own" skaters, Houston, we have a problem.

Igor seems to have been taking time he's supposed to be available for his and Marina's skaters and bringing his own skaters to Canton, and coaching them according to a schedule that conflicts with the time he's supposed to be available to coaching team skaters. Try something similar at your own job; see how long you're allowed to get away with it no matter how successful you've been or how much people like you. OTOH, if you moonlight on a lunch hour, weekends, before work, on days off and other free time, your own time, outside of work - no problem. That's what Marina does. She's not keeping Tessa and Scott waiting while she's choreographing some pairs team.

He's not doing it on the freaking side! How many interpretations of "not there for them." do we think there are??? He's doing it inside the schedule he's supposed to work out with Marina in coaching the Canton teams. Honestly, D/W, V/M and the Shibs all co-sign a bloodless coup because they, too, think Igor should just sit by the phone in his side time? It's because when they're accustomed to working with their tech coach, he ain't there. How many times do you think that when they're accustomed to working with Marina, it turns out Marina can't cause she's doing choreography for some pairs team in her side business? I bet never. Hell, the figure skaters themselves - D/W and V/M - have been known to work with and help out teammates and other figure skaters. Bet Tessa isn't saying to Scott "I can't do training today, I've promised so-and-so to help them with some transitions!"

Because the conflict of interest isn't about coaching rival or competitive teams. It's not about what he's doing but when he's doing it and the way that impacts Arctic Edge's training program.

That's often happens when people have competing fantasies. There's the situation as it's been presented, and then there's what people want to be true instead, and there's no common ground.

When I spent the day in Canton, I arrived at 7am. The Shibs were already on the ice having arrived at 6am, Igor showed at 7:30 for his lesson with them. Marina was in Canada with V/M. Igor worked all day and was there when I left at 4:30pm. There are 2 rinks in Canton - one is for ice dancing/pairs - didn't see any single skaters. The other is for youth hocky and learn to skate programs which is usually busy on weekends and before and after school, so there is plenty of ice time available during the week day. Marina makes the dance coaching schedule. Lately she has not been giving Igor the shedule for the day, which can vary according to the skaters' various schedules outside of their training. Management said they had no problem with Igor taking additional skaters because they had ice. With Marina there, Igor has time in the afternoon to work with other teams in the other rink, so I don't see that this is such a terrible problem. The skaters know this, the rink management knows this, Igor knows this, Marina knows this, so I think the problem is more about control.

 

[Violet Bliss]

KKonas, when were you there?

 

[nevergonnadance]

When I spent the day in Canton, I arrived at 7am. The Shibs were already on the ice having arrived at 6am, Igor showed at 7:30 for his lesson with them. Marina was in Canada with V/M. Igor worked all day and was there when I left at 4:30pm. There are 2 rinks in Canton - one is for ice dancing/pairs - didn't see any single skaters. The other is for youth hocky and learn to skate programs which is usually busy on weekends and before and after school, so there is plenty of ice time available during the week day. Marina makes the dance coaching schedule. Lately she has not been giving Igor the shedule for the day, which can vary according to the skaters' various schedules outside of their training. Management said they had no problem with Igor taking additional skaters because they had ice. With Marina there, Igor has time in the afternoon to work with other teams in the other rink, so I don't see that this is such a terrible problem. The skaters know this, the rink management knows this, Igor knows this, Marina knows this, so I think the problem is more about control.

You spent 'a' day, 'the' day in Canton, or you do it regularly?

There is plenty of ice but not plenty of TIME. Those are two different things. Two rinks, one tech coach. Management has enough ice, but lacks the ability to clone Igor. This:

With Marina there, Igor has time in the afternoon to work with other teams in the other rink, so I don't see that this is such a terrible problem.

isn't relevant. Marina and Igor do different jobs. She does choreography, style, transitions, lifts (with Johnny Johns). He does the tech and CoP stuff - are you showing the right edge, is this the correct pattern, what level are you achieving, how do you get it better? They're not redundant tasks. There's no slack for Marina to take up. If how you see it is also how Igor saw it, then Igor miscalculated. And not to mention, what business does he have depending on Marina to fill in while he establishes his own separate business?!

It's not complicated. Do your own thing, on our ice, but don't let it detract from your primary responsibilities. That's more than fair. That's a considerable perk for such successful coaches and both had the same perk.

It's disingenuous for Igor or anyone to pretend Marina suddenly scheduled the skaters without him, seeing as how they'd expect to have tech coaching pretty much when they always had it. It speaks well of Arctic Edge that they allow both Marina and Igor to do their own thing in their own time. The sticking point is don't take the time that belongs to the skaters of the main training center. What, honestly, do we believe Marina was suddenly scheduling the three teams at odd times, switching up the schedule to exclude Igor and most likely inconveniencing the very time-pressed priority skaters and the skaters had no objection? SHE ****** up the schedule while he was ready and waiting according to the common practice of the past ten years but he got fired? Do we really think the daily schedule was catch-as-catch-can, different every single day, no routine? Or, did Marina refuse to change up the skaters' routine and refuse to consider Igor's own coaching as a legitimate schedule conflict? My money's on the latter. Dollars to donuts none of the priority teams, or Igor, ever had to cool their heels and work around Marina's outside choreography.

About VM being "disappointed." Stands to reason so is Marina and so is Arctic Edge.

 

[KKonas]

You spent 'a' day, 'the' day in Canton, or you do it regularly?

There is plenty of ice but not plenty of TIME. Those are two different things. Two rinks, one tech coach. Management has enough ice, but lacks the ability to clone Igor. This: isn't relevant. Marina and Igor do different jobs. She does choreography, style, transitions, lifts (with Johnny Johns). He does the tech and CoP stuff - are you showing the right edge, is this the correct pattern, what level are you achieving, how do you get it better? They're not redundant tasks. There's no slack for Marina to take up. If how you see it is also how Igor saw it, then Igor miscalculated.

I do

You spent 'a' day, 'the' day in Canton, or you do it regularly?

There is plenty of ice but not plenty of TIME. Those are two different things. Two rinks, one tech coach. Management has enough ice, but lacks the ability to clone Igor. This: isn't relevant. Marina and Igor do different jobs. She does choreography, style, transitions, lifts (with Johnny Johns). He does the tech and CoP stuff - are you showing the right edge, is this the correct pattern, what level are you achieving, how do you get it better? They're not redundant tasks. There's no slack for Marina to take up. If how you see it is also how Igor saw it, then Igor miscalculated.

It's not a complicated issue. Take time to do your own thing, but don't let it detract from your primary responsibilities. That's more than fair. That's a considerable perk for such successful coaches and both had the same perk.

I think it's totally disingenuous for Igor or anyone to pretend Marina suddenly scheduled the skaters without him, seeing as how they'd expect to have tech coaching pretty much when they always had it. It speaks well of Arctic Edge that they allow both Marina and Igor to do their own thing in their own time. The sticking point is don't take the time that belongs to the skaters of the main training center. What, honestly, do we believe Marina was suddenly scheduling the three teams at odd times, switching up the schedule to exclude Igor and most likely inconvenience the skaters? SHE ****** up the schedule while he was ready and waiting according to the common practice of the past ten years but he got fired? Do we really think the daily schedule was catch-as-catch-can, different every single day, no routine? Or, did Marina refuse to change up the skaters and refuse to consider Igor's own coaching as a legitimate schedule conflict? My money's on the latter. Dollars to donuts none of the priority teams, or Igor, ever had to cool their heels and work around Marina's outside choreography.

About VM being "disappointed." Stands to reason so is Marina and so is Arctic Edge.

Well, since I have covered the sport for the past 30 years, been to many rinks, nearly 100 competitions, I think I do know something about how coaches work, although every group works a little differently. I also was at DSC the following day. I interviewed all the dancers and Igor when I was in Canton and have talked to most of them recently. I attended a recent Ice Dance Committee Meeting where I spoke to several of the coaches and skaters. What do you think happens to schedules when one coach is gone a week like Marina was the day I was in Canton or when Camerlengo was in Europe for a week while I was at DSC? The schedule is either adjusted or other coaches "chip" in to work with the skaters.

 

[nevergonnadance]

Well, since I have covered the sport for the past 30 years, been to many rinks, nearly 100 competitions, I think I do know something about how coaches work, although every group works a little differently. I also was at DSC the following day. I interviewed all the dancers and Igor when I was in Canton and have talked to most of them recently. I attended a recent Ice Dance Committee Meeting where I spoke to several of the coaches and skaters. What do you think happens to schedules when one coach is gone a week like Marina was the day I was in Canton or when Camerlengo was in Europe for a week while I was at DSC? The schedule is either adjusted or other coaches "chip" in to work with the skaters.

These are isolated schedule disruptions that are anticipated during the course of the season and common to every training center and worked out in advance. It doesn't matter how long you've been in the sport, if you don't perceive the difference between scheduled away time and an ongoing, separate business run concurrently with and in conflict with your routine day job, there's no explaining something that elementary. And no matter how experienced you are, the very fact that you said "with Marina there, Igor has time to" betrays that you have missed a few things along the way. For the entire time the recent-past Canton team has been running things at Arctic Edge, Marina has done outside choreography, Igor has advised other teams, and the skaters themselves have advised other teams. Marina, Igor, specialist coaches and the other skaters have all had scheduled time away and the schedule adjusts. That is an entirely different thing than Igor piggybacking a full time business alongside the same work day he has other full time commitments. That doesn't exist at DSC or any other skating center without prior agreement and if someone attempted it there would be problems.

Suppose you have a regular job and a co-worker decides, well ****, Kkonas is here, she/he can do my stuff and her stuff and I'll just do my own outside stuff. How happy would you be about that if the other person's stuff wasn't even in your job description? How happy would your employer be if what the other person was doing led to them neglecting his/her primary job? There's a difference between that and a contractual vacation, scheduled day off, scheduled personal or sick day, or other permissable free time/obligations such as committee work, etc. That's called sloughing off on your real job so you can set up your own operation. In your 30 years covering the sport has that been customary or has the distinction never been made explicit?

 

[DianaSelene]

Last year Caitlyn quoted Igor several times. She was working with him a lot. He told her she could do ice dance. If this hadn't happened, perhaps we'd see "Zoueva/Shpilband" as the team's coach. The Canton team has room in the schedule for more teams, but not even they can make double booking work. Marina (and, formerly, Igor) didn't double book or make the Canton skaters accommodate or work around extracurricular pursuits. Caitlyn wasn't extracurricular. They fit her in. But now, with Igor, it's happening. There's a time conflict. He either won't or is too time pressed to do both and it's the priority skaters who are being neglected. That's all we can take away from what we've been given so far.

When the coaching team per its arrangement with Arctic Edge takes on a new team, they fit it into the existing schedule. But, if one of the team is taking on "a lot of skaters" (Igor's words) and scheduling them when he's supposed to be available for the Canton team's schedule, that's the problem. If Caitlyn is part of the Canton team, what Igor does with his own skating business better not conflict with her expected time either.

The info we've been given, little as it is, says that's the problem. Inside, not outside. Caitlyn seems to be "inside' as part of the Canton skaters, just like V/M, D/W, the Shibs and the other teams. I bet Marina isn't bumping V/M, D/W or the Shibs for Caitlyn. She does that schedule work-up on the weekend, that she used to do with Igor, in conjunction with the skaters, and there's no conflict. Caitlyn based on her quotes since she's been in Michigan is inside that system.

I don't understand Skateboy's logic at all when he went on about Marina choreographing for other, rival skaters being a conflict of interest. That's not considered a conflict of interest at Canton. The skating program with D/W and V/M in it wouldn't exist if it were!

Whenever Marina and Igor were asked how it worked, their answers were practical. They paid scrupulous attention to the schedule so all the teams got the attention they'd contracted for. When working with any particular team, that team got Marina and Igor's best effort creatively and technically. It was helped because the teams were very different - that's a plus. It's not about creative vision or hogging your coach because you don't want anyone else to have the benefit of their expertise. It's about making sure each team at the rink gets the very best the team has to offer; a schedule they can rely upon, a training strategy they can depend upon, an efficient, focused coaching program. If all of a sudden the tech work becomes something that needs to be rescheduled or happen at an unexpected time, that's going to mess up the system and piss people off. Based on what Arctic Edge said and what Marina said (she was way more diplomatic) - the conflict is time management. He's "not there for them." Why not? Well, his other business is messing up the schedule and he expected everyone would work around. He's doing it outside the matrix of the Canton schedule, but inside the time set aside for the priority Canton skaters.

I wonder if Igor thought his warm, longstanding relationships with the top teams would make them look the other way. It's interesting that they all managed to be out of town when he was fired and yet showed up right on schedule back to the rink as soon as the axe had dropped. That's the actions of skaters who want a professionally run operation like the one Shpilband/Zoueva set up for almost 10 years, and aren't interested in turning it into one based on personalities and relationships. That never works out; it turns to messy politics. I know a lot of fans have the agenda of wanting Virtue Moir away from Marina so anything that happens becomes fodder for the argument they need to go. What a waste of energy - there's no reality to it based on the decisions Virtue Moir have made consistently since working with her. Most of the time when Scott is asked about his coach he answers about Marina. Everybody has an opinion and nobody is going to agree. I think Marina is a very smart woman, smarter than most people, impatient with nonsense, strong, practical and professional, and doesn't get sucked into a lot of the power tripping crap that many others try and fail with. She doesn't have to because she's extremely talented and successful and never forgets the bottom line is skating, not politics. That irony is how many fans decide this makes her the most Machiavellian coach of modern times!

I did not know that Shpilband helped out with Yankowskas. Thanks for telling me that.

 

[ice coverage]

... I think the problem is more about control.

Yes, for Zoueva and Shpilband, control and $ seem to be the ultimate points of conflict. The possibility of shortchanging their top teams does not make sense as an issue between the two of them.

Sorry, I accidentally garbled what I intended to say yesterday about how the skaters would be affected. "Take #2":

In terms of having the best interests of V/M+D/W+S/S at heart, neither coach can stake a claim to the moral high ground. (The "holier-than-thou" tone that I, for one, perceive in Zoueva's quotes only increases my skepticism of her agenda.)

Zoueva's big gripe supposedly was Shpilband's intention to exclude her from his coaching of additional students. Extrapolating from that suggests that if he had been agreeable to coaching the new students together in partnership with Zoueva, he would not have been fired.
Whether the incoming students had two coaches (Zoueva + Shpilband, as she wanted) or one coach (Shpilband alone, as he wanted), the net result would have been basically the same for V/M + D/W + S/S: sharing their main coaches with other students.
(The additional students might well have been serious contenders for the same podiums as V/M/+D/W+S/S, but internal rivalry would be nothing new for Team Canton.)​

 

[Violet Bliss]

Zoueva's big gripe supposedly was Shpilband's intention to exclude her from his coaching of additional students.

This may be true.

Extrapolating from that suggests that if he had been agreeable to coaching the new students together in partnership with Zoueva, he would not have been fired.

This we don't know. The management took action within their power and expelled Shpilband, citing the top skaters' discontent with his presence while denying disapproval of his taking on his student independently of Zoueva. IOW, they did not get rid of him because of Zoueva's gripe but because of the skaters'. Of course they might have officially stuck to what they had a legal right to do and stayed away from what they had no authority in, while offering a sympatico excuse. I've been deducing their motive from their perspective, action, and timing but there is not enough ground to make the definitive conclusion you did.

The management might have decided on their own that they could only keep one of the coaches, and they chose the one the skaters would stay with. If the skaters had problems with Shpilband exclusively, then the coaches reaching an agreement might not have changed the outcome, unless the skaters' grievances were completely based on the tension between the coaches. Even then, they seemed to have taken side.

 

[Mathman]

According to the original article by Jo-ann Barnas, this is what the general manager Mr. O'Neill said:

1. Zoueva, who is remaining at the Arctic FSC, said that Shpilband had created a "conflict of interest" because she said he wanted to work exclusively with two new teams. But O'Neill said that wasn't a factor in the decision

2. What it came down to was the kids didn't want to skate there (in Canton) anymore with Igor. Either they were leaving or Igor was leaving.

Are Mr. O'Neill's statements truthful or untruthful?

 

[Tonichelle]

According to the original article by Jo-ann Barnas, this is what the general manager Mr. O'Neill said:

1. Zoueva, who is remaining at the Arctic FSC, said that Shpilband had created a "conflict of interest" because she said he wanted to work exclusively with two new teams. But O'Neill said that wasn't a factor in the decision

2. What it came down to was the kids didn't want to skate there (in Canton) anymore with Igor. Either they were leaving or Igor was leaving.

Are Mr. O'Neill's statements truthful or untruthful?

Was he misquoted? Did they only have a partial quote. Drama and sensationalism sells news, not fact or truth.

And judging by the statements made - even if they are PR spin - neither of the top two teams said anything about knowing of a rift. So are they being truthful or untruthful?

Heck for all we know this could all be one big ploy to get even more attention in Canton and nothing whatsoever is going on. (ok so that may just be wishful thinking on my part).

 

[Violet Bliss]

According to the original article by Jo-ann Barnas, this is what the general manager Mr. O'Neill said:

1. Zoueva, who is remaining at the Arctic FSC, said that Shpilband had created a "conflict of interest" because she said he wanted to work exclusively with two new teams. But O'Neill said that wasn't a factor in the decision

2. What it came down to was the kids didn't want to skate there (in Canton) anymore with Igor. Either they were leaving or Igor was leaving.

Are Mr. O'Neill's statements truthful or untruthful?

What Zoueva said was reported independently and corroborated by Shpilband himself, not through O'Neill, who only said they, he and the rink owner, had no issue with Shpilband taking on his extra students. I suppose they had no legal power in the coaches' business so they stayed away from it.

They said their decision was based on the kids' interests and ultimatum. Charlie's mother denied this and claimed ego clash between the coaches and that the skaters were used as pawns. It is reasonable to figure Shpilband's activities and/or the coaches' dispute had either a direct impact on the decision which the management would not cite, or an indirect impact as the basis of the skaters' discontent with Shpilband as alleged by the management.

In any case, the club and rink management acted together to dismiss Shpilband from the property for business reasons, whether or not it was Zoueva's or the skaters' intent. I doubt we will hear much explanation as it's to the benefit of everybody directly involved for this to blow over and to focus on their respective careers. This is in fact the best thing for each of them to do. Shpilband has been quiet after the initial shock and announcement of the next day meeting with Charlie. This probably indicates his acceptance of the reality and his quiet focus on rebuilding and possibly revenge, likely with the help of the Russian federation.

 

[Mathman]

...neither of the top two teams said anything about knowing of a rift. So are they being truthful or untruthful?

The very question I was going to ask next.

Mostly, though, I am trying to picture Maia Shibutani barging into the manager's office shouting, "Either that son-of-a goes or I go!"

 

[Violet Bliss]

The very question I was going to ask next.

Mostly, though, I am trying to picture Maia Shibutani barging into the manager's office shouting, "Either that son-of-a goes or I go!"

Kind of hard to picture, isn't it? If "the kids" did have grievances against Shpilband, to whom were they likely to express them? Zoueva :yes: or the club manager? The rink owner? It was possible that the management did inquire the skaters of their sentiments though. I believe Zoueva did try to work it out with Shpilband. Even after the fallout, both coaches expressed wistful appreciation of their successful collaboration.

The teams did not say they had not known of the rift, just that they found out about Shpilband's dismissal after it happened, which was likely the truth. The management plotted a blindside right before the skaters' return. If the skaters had known some action would be taken, they were probably asked to be quiet about it but not told exactly when it would take place or exactly how.

 

[skateluvr]

LOL, MM. Really. If the kids are in the zueva camp, i'll bet team 3 were totally clueless about the sacking. Based on the strength of personalities, I see Scott and Meryl as the two who might speak up, would speak up if unhappy. Somehow I can see Scott barging in and delivering an ultimatum. These two teams weild much influence, and they are paying the bills. Rith now it is all about those wc and sochi medals. people split up but time heals. anything can happen, tho I don't see Igor leaving for Russia as his life/ties/students are here. Only if he finds things fall apart and he can't regroup fast enough. I do not know who he'd work with in RU but the fact that they made offer asap speaks very good money. I don't think he is the vengeful type -just a guess. I think he cares about beautiful skating and seemed concerned most with his skaters. There are enough egos in Canton, it appears to provide all the power for several wind turbines. Very big egos, and that makes it amusing. We are not talking Iran here. I have learned much about how things work in this thread.

 

[slipslidin]

Once we start with "it is possible", we are departing from the only facts we know. In this very unusual case, anything we choose to imagine is as good as anyone else's fantasy scenario. We know what some of the parties said to the press, we know the 'kids' have not spoken to the press beyond Charlie's "no comment". We know that Charlie's Mom stated the skaters did not initiate this , but were trying to 'hold on by the skin of their teeth', and two skating federations have issued a few platitudes attributed to the skaters.

These bare facts are not contradictory, nobody has denied them, and while we might wish we knew more, there may be no more forthcoming.

We do know that all parties have thrown in their cards and been dealt a new hand, and we have to wait and see how it all plays out.