Is Grand Prix series ready to downsize to 5 events?

[4everchan]

Honestly, if the events actually provide a competition worth watching, anyone who individually doesn’t make it--just like when someone doesn't make GPF because the way podiums came out--well, that's fine. Since the longevity is the new norm and the pool is small, they will simply make it next year.

Worth watching : depends what you are looking for I guess. I watch challengers and juniors.. and sometimes, these developing skaters are quite.. well below the average standard I like to watch... but then, there is improvement opportunity, growth... I like to see it happen, and then ultimately it does happen on the GP circuit as well. Some teams that were nowhere near expected to medal or even take part like Laurin Ethier one year, wins a medal... get prize money for it, get recognition, and it fuels them to keep working and hope that one day, they go to worlds etc.

You are talking as if great teams happen by snapping the fingers. It takes time for them to develop and for lower ranked teams, being at the GP level means that they are finally getting there... as a matter of fact, Canadians will be on the national team if they earn a GP spot (or win a medal at Nationals) meaning much better funding. It's vital for many developing talents.

You can always skip a few skaters if they are not up to your standards.. but can you really deny them financial opportunities ? Should we kick out 10% of college students because they are not as strong as their colleagues ?

 

[lariko]

Worth watching : depends what you are looking for I guess. I watch challengers and juniors.. and sometimes, these developing skaters are quite.. well below the average standard I like to watch... but then, there is improvement opportunity, growth... I like to see it happen, and then ultimately it does happen on the GP circuit as well. Some teams that were nowhere near expected to medal or even take part like Laurin Ethier one year, wins a medal... get prize money for it, get recognition, and it fuels them to keep working and hope that one day, they go to worlds etc.

You are talking as if great teams happen by snapping the fingers. It takes time for them to develop and for lower ranked teams, being at the GP level means that they are finally getting there... as a matter of fact, Canadians will be on the national team if they earn a GP spot (or win a medal at Nationals) meaning much better funding. It's vital for many developing talents.

You can always skip a few skaters if they are not up to your standards.. but can you really deny them financial opportunities ? Should we kick out 10% of college students because they are not as strong as their colleagues ?

They have JGP and Challengers, GP is supposed to be different. I don't know why it is so hard to grasp. GP is not supposed to have 1 top athlete and 11 aspiring ones. It is supposed to be like 8 to 4.

 

[4everchan]

They have JGP and Challengers, GP is supposed to be different. I don't know why it is so hard to grasp.

JGP is age conditional. Challengers probably don't lead to team getting funding. I grasp your point of view.. thank you.. I just disagree with it completely.

 

[lariko]

JGP is age conditional. Challengers probably don't lead to team getting funding. I grasp your point of view.. thank you.. I just disagree with it completely.

Well, I disagree with turning GP series into 6 more challengers

 

[4everchan]

Well, I disagree with turning GP series into 6 extra challengers

The skaters may not always be top notch but the events themselves are of another quality, just because they are broadcast and thus get sponsors... the quality of ice, and the size of rinks, the level of organization, the prize money.. it's a completely different level and the sport needs this... even if at times, the pool of skaters may not be ideal. Cutting in there makes no sense if the sport wants to remain alive... GP series is the foundation, the structure that keeps the sport alive in the first half of the season. Maybe it's because you are a recent fan. When I started watching skating, we couldn't watch challengers.. not televised, not streaming available (no internet even)... JGPs are also a very recent thing (thanks TED) we can watch. So the only skating available on air was GP + worlds/olympics. Many of the hardcore fans in this forum come from this era. I cannot say I'd be following skating without the regular GPs. Many fans still remember GP and will watch them or follow news about them (for instance on CBC). But, still have no clue about JGP or Challengers. The sport needs this higher level structure that is still somewhat known from the public and from the broadcasters and sponsors. Canceling events also means sponsors get less visibility and will not invest as much or at all. It's important to look further than just about the level of some of the lower ranked skaters.

 

[lariko]

The skaters may not always be top notch but the events themselves are of another quality, just because they are broadcast and thus get sponsors... the quality of ice, and the size of rinks, the level of organization, the prize money.. it's a completely different level and the sport needs this... even if at times, the pool of skaters may not be ideal. Cutting in there makes no sense if the sport wants to remain alive... GP series is the foundation, the structure that keeps the sport alive in the first half of the season. Maybe it's because you are a recent fan. When I started watching skating, we couldn't watch challengers.. not televised, not streaming available (no internet even)... JGPs are also a very recent thing (thanks TED) we can watch. So the only skating available on air was GP + worlds/olympics. Many of the hardcore fans in this forum come from this era. I cannot say I'd be following skating without the regular GPs. Many fans still remember GP and will watch them or follow news about them (for instance on CBC). But, still have no clue about JGP or Challengers. The sport needs this higher level structure that is still somewhat known from the public and from the broadcasters and sponsors. Canceling events also means sponsors get less visibility and will not invest as much or at all. It's important to look further than just about the level of some of the lower ranked skaters.

I don't think sponsors are eager to sponsor events where nearly every skater gets a polite version of 'well, they weren't very good, were they? But they sure tried...". Sorry, I dunno what the old fans are used to seeing on GP, but this is not GP I used to watch for many years.

 

[4everchan]

I don't think sponsors are eager to sponsor events where nearly every skater gets a polite version of 'well, they weren't very good, were they? But they sure tried...". Sorry, I dunno what the old fans are used to seeing on GP, but this is not GP I used to watch for many years.

My humble opinion : you need to watch a few more years to see the cycles of the sport... There are high and lows always.. This year, I agree with you, is not the strongest GP season. I have seen worse. I have seen much better too. You cannot nix something because one year it's bad... when you know that better years will come... Watch out next year.... pre-olympic year is always super exciting
Sponsors don't care about the quality of skaters they care about the exposure and visibility.

 

[lariko]

My humble opinion : you need to watch a few more years to see the cycles of the sport... There are high and lows always.. This year, I agree with you, is not the strongest GP season. I have seen worse. I have seen much better too. You cannot nix something because one year it's bad... when you know that better years will come... Watch out next year.... pre-olympic year is always super exciting
Sponsors don't care about the quality of skaters they care about the exposure and visibility.

And the improvement will come from what/who/how/where exactly? What's the source?

 

[4everchan]

And the improvement will come from what/who/how/where exactly? What's the source?

The source? Decades of watching figure skating : the pre-olympic year is always the best. Skaters pace themselves on the quadrennial cycle. They save their best programs there. Many settle on what THEY CAN achieve (optimizing quality over content at times) in order to give their best EVER performance at the O Games. This is all the what/who/how and where this is coming from. Of course, it's not perfect science but figure skating is sport and not science.

 

[lariko]

The source? Decades of watching figure skating : the pre-olympic year is always the best. Skaters pace themselves on the quadrennial cycle. They save their best programs there. Many settle on what THEY CAN achieve (optimizing quality over content at times) in order to give their best EVER performance at the O Games. This is all the what/who/how and where this is coming from. Of course, it's not perfect science but figure skating is sport and not science.

I hear commentators say that most programs in Olympic season are safe, tried and true. Last Olympics also ended so badly and was such complete crapshoot, I can't say I am looking forward to next one.

 

[Karoltyna]

They have JGP and Challengers, GP is supposed to be different. I don't know why it is so hard to grasp. GP is not supposed to have 1 top athlete and 11 aspiring ones. It is supposed to be like 8 to 4.

Nah, it's the GP final - each national event is so that this 1 particular skater gets their GPF spot.

 

[Karoltyna]

The skaters may not always be top notch but the events themselves are of another quality, just because they are broadcast and thus get sponsors... the quality of ice, and the size of rinks, the level of organization, the prize money.. it's a completely different level and the sport needs this... even if at times, the pool of skaters may not be ideal. Cutting in there makes no sense if the sport wants to remain alive... GP series is the foundation, the structure that keeps the sport alive in the first half of the season. Maybe it's because you are a recent fan. When I started watching skating, we couldn't watch challengers.. not televised, not streaming available (no internet even)... JGPs are also a very recent thing (thanks TED) we can watch. So the only skating available on air was GP + worlds/olympics. Many of the hardcore fans in this forum come from this era. I cannot say I'd be following skating without the regular GPs. Many fans still remember GP and will watch them or follow news about them (for instance on CBC). But, still have no clue about JGP or Challengers. The sport needs this higher level structure that is still somewhat known from the public and from the broadcasters and sponsors. Canceling events also means sponsors get less visibility and will not invest as much or at all. It's important to look further than just about the level of some of the lower ranked skaters.

Yep, and we sometimes got only FS broadcasted or both programs but just 2 best groups. And no Internet, so we sometimes got the update on GP and sometimes not, mostly only when Siudek/Siudek competed. And after they retired, they stoped broadcasting FS at all and the popularity of the sport hit the ground very fast - to the poin where we don't hold the senior nats in PL but the Four Nationals Championships and the best polish skater get the nat title... We need as much broadcasted events as possible. This is the only way FS can get the publicity and drive fans.

 

[lariko]

Yep, and we sometimes got only FS broadcasted or both programs but just 2 best groups. And no Internet, so we sometimes got the update on GP and sometimes not, mostly only when Siudek/Siudek competed. And after they retired, they stoped broadcasting FS at all and the popularity of the sport hit the ground very fast - to the poin where we don't hold the senior nats in PL but the Four Nationals Championships and the best polish skater get the nat title... We need as much broadcasted events as possible. This is the only way FS can get the publicity and drive fans.

Poland doesn't have Internet? Or do you mean YouTube is blocked in Poland or something like that?

 

[moonvine]

The way Gutmann performed in Challengers and if she did well in Eu/Worlds, she'd qualify for GP next year with 5 or 6 events. Plus whenever someone withdraws, they fill back from highest scores in Challengers, so if any skater starts performing above previous year, they will likely get placement with fewer events. Junior GP is designed to encompas literally every skater who wants to compete, and so do the Challengers. GP is supposed to be different. What's the point then to have both Challengers and GP if absolutely anyone can be in GP...

Yes, individual skaters have ups and downs, but when they both reduce the technical content and still on the downside simultaneously and collectively, that's a sign of trouble. I mean, apart from Torgashev and Malinin literally no men this season delivered anything worth remembering.

Huh? Kevin Aymoz has been amazing. The men's event at Skate America was fantastic.

 

[Karoltyna]

Poland doesn't have Internet? Or do you mean YouTube is blocked in Poland or something like that?

In the 90 Interent in PL was only for academic purposes. And YT was founded in 2005.

 

[lariko]

In the 90 Interent in PL was only for academic purposes. And YT was founded in 2005.

I am so confused now. I guess, you are not talking about present days then.

 

[Diana Delafield]

The skaters may not always be top notch but the events themselves are of another quality, just because they are broadcast and thus get sponsors... the quality of ice, and the size of rinks, the level of organization, the prize money.. it's a completely different level and the sport needs this... even if at times, the pool of skaters may not be ideal. Cutting in there makes no sense if the sport wants to remain alive... GP series is the foundation, the structure that keeps the sport alive in the first half of the season. Maybe it's because you are a recent fan. When I started watching skating, we couldn't watch challengers.. not televised, not streaming available (no internet even)... JGPs are also a very recent thing (thanks TED) we can watch. So the only skating available on air was GP + worlds/olympics. Many of the hardcore fans in this forum come from this era. I cannot say I'd be following skating without the regular GPs. Many fans still remember GP and will watch them or follow news about them (for instance on CBC). But, still have no clue about JGP or Challengers. The sport needs this higher level structure that is still somewhat known from the public and from the broadcasters and sponsors. Canceling events also means sponsors get less visibility and will not invest as much or at all. It's important to look further than just about the level of some of the lower ranked skaters.

Certainly in the 80s, maybe in the 70s although I'm fuzzy about that, in Canada we watched Skate Canada, Skate America, NHK, one in England that kept changing its name (Rotary Watches, Skate Electric, etc) and one other - Moscow? They weren't organized into a Grand Prix series then with a final and championship title, but they were watched as avidly as the national championships and Worlds/Olympics, and public interest was high, with high-level TV sponsors.

CBC showed the ones held in Canada plus the Olympics, CTV showed the other international competitions. The ones I was usually in would be regional, sectional, divisionals, novice and junior Canadians, and a few others that would be the Challenger series today but were unheard-of outside the competitors' own little world. Not televised, maybe an inch or two of results lists in the newspaper sports pages. And there was no internet or youtube then, of course. No home computers. (Now I feel as if I should be tottering off to a chair exercise class at the assisted living residence down the street, instead of packing my bag to go off to skate. But then I remember Ludmilla Protopopov was still pairs skating in shows in her late seventies, so I've got a way to go yet )

(Edit: I should have added that all the competitions shown on Canadian TV in the pre-computer days were delayed to be shown in prime time. No live-streaming at ungodly hours in the middle of the night. On the other hand, no way to rewatch later either. If you couldn't be home that evening, you set your VCR to record a competition for you.)

 

[islandpaddler]

All this moaning! When I first started watching skating it was on Saturday afternoons on Wide World of Sports. The thrill of victory and the agony of defeat. Now, maybe 60 or so years later, I just watched every minute of Finlandia thanks to the internet and a VPN. It boggles the mind when you think about it.

 

[Arigato]

Sponsors don't care about the quality of skaters they care about the exposure and visibility.

Define sponsor. Of an event? Of an individual skater?

 

[4everchan]

Define sponsor. Of an event? Of an individual skater?

We are not talking about specific skaters.