Is Mirai Nagasu Underscored?

[imisscohen]

I don't know if I would say she's underscored, but I don't think she gets the same benefit of having her jumps called rotated when she's within 1/4 of the full rotation like other skaters do. Lack of consistency within judging definitely isn't on her side. Her PCS is fine for the programs she delivers IMO.

This is where I sit. Her PCS is definitely fair for the programs she has, but PCS inflation occurs for some others with similar or slightly better program content (or much better content impacted by a messy technical performance seeing greater PCS scores than a clean Nagasu).

 

[yoloaxel]

I do. Not on a typical day, for sure. But that was not a typical competition. And the 4 programs Mirai and Bradie put down, compared to everyone else, should have been enough.

Hmm, I don’t think so. Carolina and Alina severely underperformed, but the Japanese ladies were overall wonderful and deserved 3 spots, even if Satoko had a couple mistakes. Alina had a meltdown but she also has the most difficult program and had a good SP so it wasn’t a disaster placement, and Maria was pleasant enough. Kaetlyn was overscored a bit but would have won anyway, and Gabby definitely didn’t get any presents from the judges.

Bradie was nice but her PCS just aren’t there yet, and Mirai... well I’ve said what I think. She didn’t really skate clean as she had URs and without the 3A the that super long preparation is really underwhelming. Her PCS was even higher than usual so

 

[andromache]

Mirai's scores seem about right to me. She's a sentimental favorite and I think that's why so many fans get offended on her behalf, but her spins are nowhere near as good as they used to be, her jumps, when rotated, are nice but nothing special, and her programs seem empty to me in terms of choreography, transitions, and commitment to the music/performance.

 

[Globetrotter]

I do. Not on a typical day, for sure. But that was not a typical competition. And the 4 programs Mirai and Bradie put down, compared to everyone else, should have been enough.

But you forgot that other skaters did better relatively speaking. When you compare current US skaters, even including Ashley Wagner, none of them are in the same league as the top Russian, Japanese and dare I say, even Kaetlyn Osmond or CaroK. The only US skater who can potentially challenge them is Gracie Gold, who unfortunately did not have the right competitive nerves. So again, my answer is no, the US skaters were not good enough to win 3 spots under current rules.

 

[UpNorth]

But you forgot that other skaters did better relatively speaking. When you compare current US skaters, even including Ashley Wagner, none of them are in the same league as the top Russian, Japanese and dare I say, even Kaetlyn Osmond or CaroK. The only US skater who can potentially challenge them is Gracie Gold, who unfortunately did not have the right competitive nerves. So again, my answer is no, the US skaters were not good enough to win 3 spots under current rules.

I'm not arguing that they are better overall skaters. I'm arguing that, FOR THIS COMPETITION, they did good enough to have one 5, and one 8 place finish. Mirai lost out on a ton of technical points, as did Bradie. The caller was unnecessarily harsh on several of his calls. And unfortunately he did not keep that same level of harshness for the top skaters.
Let me reiterate, I'm saying relative to THIS competition they both deserved higher placement. Simply because so many other of the top skaters faltered.

 

[UpNorth]

It would be one thing if countries earned spots based off ISU standing or overall top scores. But it's limited solely to placement at worlds. In that case, then yes, the US deserved 3 ladies. I would have placed them at 4, and 8 (or even 7). I'm not arguing for the podium here, although even Jackie Wong thought Bradie should have been in 3rd. Personally, I much prefer Satoko to Bradie so I'm fine with the podium

 

[noskates]

For many years Mirai's jumps have been suspect. I think the judges know that and look for URs. And the way she lands her jumps sometimes it's hard to tell and I would bet on slo-mo cameras she's guilty. If anyone was underscored it was Bradie.

 

[Globetrotter]

It would be one thing if countries earned spots based off ISU standing or overall top scores. But it's limited solely to placement at worlds. In that case, then yes, the US deserved 3 ladies. I would have placed them at 4, and 8 (or even 7). I'm not arguing for the podium here, although even Jackie Wong thought Bradie should have been in 3rd. Personally, I much prefer Satoko to Bradie so I'm fine with the podium

With Jackie Wong’s uber pro US nationalistic sentiments, I will take his preference with a big pinch of salt. Bradie was rightly in 4th in the LP. Note that Satoko got dinged with several carrots as well and suffice to say that the PCS gap between them will ensure Satoko is still ahead even if the second 3Lz in the 3 jump combo ought to be < if the caller is uber strict. As for Mirai, the scores between her, Gabby, Little Bet and Maria are close enough but note that the other 3 girls were also heavily dinged and received ! calls. Mirai simply happened to lose out in slight margins and I can’t see where the tech should ding the others further. Both Bradie and a Mirai did well in US comps where the callers were not as strict but when you have a tough one, watch out. It’s a call to everyone to clean up and be sure your rotations don’t leave any room for doubts. Note that those with good basic techniques like CaroK, Kaetlyn, Yuna Kim etc generally do not receive <. Mirai’s combos have always been borderline and an improved but still borderline edge on the 3Lz. Besides, she was not the same Mirai that threw it all out like in the Oly team event. I wish she could have kept her focus on her spins which used to be her best elements but obviously they have been sacrificed for jump focus.

 

[jenaj]

I do. Not on a typical day, for sure. But that was not a typical competition. And the 4 programs Mirai and Bradie put down, compared to everyone else, should have been enough.

I agree. They skated clean except for the overly harsh UR calls. Skaters above them fell or had other mistakes that interrupted their programs. As for Mirai, yes, she is underscored.

 

[yoloaxel]

I agree. They skated clean except for the overly harsh UR calls. Skaters above them fell or had other mistakes that interrupted their programs. As for Mirai, yes, she is underscored.

In Bradie's case, I think she was rewarded fairly. Her PCS just aren't there yet! In case of Mirai, she has literally 0 transitions, and her interpretation\performance seems average to me. Her jumps clearly had some issues, and although some of the calls were a bit harsh but in total she lost only -1.07 in GOE and 3\4 points in BV. It's not like without them she was gonna score 140+ and she also got an edge call.

Also! Her SB is 137 with the 3A, this should in no way be close to that. Without UR it could have been around 130 perhaps, and that would have put her in 9th.

 

[WineHerUp]

With Jackie Wong’s uber pro US nationalistic sentiments, I will take his preference with a big pinch of salt. Bradie was rightly in 4th in the LP. Note that Satoko got dinged with several carrots as well and suffice to say that the PCS gap between them will ensure Satoko is still ahead even if the second 3Lz in the 3 jump combo ought to be < if the caller is uber strict. As for Mirai, the scores between her, Gabby, Little Bet and Maria are close enough but note that the other 3 girls were also heavily dinged and received ! calls. Mirai simply happened to lose out in slight margins and I can’t see where the tech should ding the others further. Both Bradie and a Mirai did well in US comps where the callers were not as strict but when you have a tough one, watch out. It’s a call to everyone to clean up and be sure your rotations don’t leave any room for doubts. Note that those with good basic techniques like CaroK, Kaetlyn, Yuna Kim etc generally do not receive <. Mirai’s combos have always been borderline and an improved but still borderline edge on the 3Lz. Besides, she was not the same Mirai that threw it all out like in the Oly team event. I wish she could have kept her focus on her spins which used to be her best elements but obviously they have been sacrificed for jump focus.

Finally someone called out Jackie's nationalistic sentiments. I appreciate his respectful and non-snarky commentary, but it's becoming really clear to me that he has a bias towards US skaters. Most people don't notice because he's not super vocal about it, but he often goes easy on practically every US skater. Things that are clear to the viewers like URs, edge calls, or empty programs will most likely be overlooked if the skater has an American flag next to their name.

 

[yoloaxel]

Finally someone called out Jackie's nationalistic sentiments. I appreciate his respectful and non-snarky commentary, but it's becoming really clear to me that he has a bias towards US skaters. Most people don't notice because he's not super vocal about it, but he often goes easy on practically every US skater. Things that are clear to the viewers like URs, edge calls, or empty programs will most likely be overlooked if the skater has an American flag next to their name.

Yeah, I adore Jackie but he never called out Vincent Zhou and Nathan Chen's URs when they were clearly there!

 

[chopinskate]

I just don't know why people think Jackie is a fount of wisdom when it comes to technique.

 

[pearly]

I appreciate how much time and money he invests in figure skating, but some of the things he does I find utterly pointless. It didn't take me long to get tired of the "haven't slept, haven't eaten, but I do this for you" tweets and attention/compassion seeking gifs. I don't follow him anymore.

 

[pearly]

Finally someone called out Jackie's nationalistic sentiments. I appreciate his respectful and non-snarky commentary, but it's becoming really clear to me that he has a bias towards US skaters. Most people don't notice because he's not super vocal about it, but he often goes easy on practically every US skater. Things that are clear to the viewers like URs, edge calls, or empty programs will most likely be overlooked if the skater has an American flag next to their name.

There are so many people out there who will post something like "congratulations to our amazing athletes for finishing 4th and 10th". Screw you medalists, I'm here to see how my own athletes did.

 

[WineHerUp]

Yeah, I adore Jackie but he never called out Vincent Zhou and Nathan Chen's URs when they were clearly there!

He's so quick to call out the Russian and Japanese ladies on issues with their programs/jumps, but when it comes to the Americans he's noticeably more reserved in his criticism. Call me crazy but I just don't understand how someone could find more issues with the top ladies than the technically and artistically inferior American ladies.

 

[WineHerUp]

There are so many people out there who will post something like "congratulations to our amazing athletes for finishing 4th and 10th". Screw you medalists, I'm here to see how my own athletes did.

I despise that mentality so much. Watching figure skating is much more enjoyable when you're able to appreciate skaters from all over the globe. Some of the most talented skaters are located in different continents and if you don't get over your nationalistic biases then you're going to miss out on truly amazing skaters.

 

[Metis]

In general, no. I think Nagasu’s scores are closer to accurate than most skaters’ marks. The problem is that while PCS inflation has largely been a rising tide that lifts all boats, she’s basically clinging to a piece of driftwood, so it often seems she’s being singled out and being underscored.

Neither she nor Bradie “deserve” higher marks in components. I was somewhat surprised by Nagasu’s numbers, as I expected them to be higher due to a clean skate and general WC inflation, but that doesn’t mean I think they should have been higher.

And I don’t think the US should have three spots in women’s (and I say that as an American). While Bradie and Mirai outperformed my expectations, I was frankly hoping we’d be down to one spot, as USFSA can crumble under its own rot for all I care and we frankly don’t have a need for more than one spot in women’s right now. Two spots is one more than USFSA deserves.

 

[Ares]

I don't think so.

 

[MarinHondas]

In general, no. I think Nagasu’s scores are closer to accurate than most skaters’ marks. The problem is that while PCS inflation has largely been a rising tide that lifts all boats, she’s basically clinging to a piece of driftwood, so it often seems she’s being singled out and being underscored.

Neither she nor Bradie “deserve” higher marks in components. I was somewhat surprised by Nagasu’s numbers, as I expected them to be higher due to a clean skate and general WC inflation, but that doesn’t mean I think they should have been higher.

And I don’t think the US should have three spots in women’s (and I say that as an American). While Bradie and Mirai outperformed my expectations, I was frankly hoping we’d be down to one spot, as USFSA can crumble under its own rot for all I care and we frankly don’t have a need for more than one spot in women’s right now. Two spots is one more than USFSA deserves.

That's pretty harsh....Phill Hersh is that you?