I know you don't like his choice of doing a.lot of upper body movement while doing footwork and it would be better and more proper if he was far more limited but that is what it is decided to best express the program and to get levels that require full body movement and not be like empty from waste up.
Is Plushenko Too Old For This Sport?
- Thread starter drivingmissdaisy
- Start date
It's bored to see North Americans say "Yagudin is better than Plushenko and he is total package blah-blah-blah". I want him to show not-Level 1 or 2 spins and steps someday under NJS. :disapp:
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Yagudin had excellent centering on his spins, and a variety of positions and never had problems exceeding 8 rotations in basic positions (particularly his sit). He certainly doesn't have the variety of say Lambiel or Chan, but he would easily be able to do level 3 and 4 spins.
I think my issue with his excessive movement is that it doesn't match the rest of his program. He skates most of the program with few arm movements because he's focusing on his jump layout, but then all of a sudden it's like "Oh, it's my footwork sequence, better amp up the energy and go nuts!" and it looks very jarring. More restraint in his footwork arm movements would highlight the difficulty that his feet are doing and then adding less mechanical more meaningful arm movements in the rest of his program would help the whole program look more balanced. There's a reason why many say his programs are so formulaic, because often they are just a slew of jumps followed by an intense period of footwork near the end. Only recently has he actually been paying more attention to more balanced choreography.
Level 4 footwork that requires full body movement doesn't mean flailing otherwise people would just do jumping jacks in the middle of their footwork ("Hey look, all my limbs are moving, give me a level 4!")... there are plenty of skaters with more subtlety in their movements that obtain Level 4 without the flailing and hip thrusts (Chan, Abbott, Suzuki, and Kostner are great examples). Also, how exactly do hip thrusts express the slew of programs he's happened to incorporate them in? I know they are intended to play to the crowd but they're distracting and rather clownish.
I think my issue with his excessive movement is that it doesn't match the rest of his program. He skates most of the program with few arm movements because he's focusing on his jump layout, but then all of a sudden it's like "Oh, it's my footwork sequence, better amp up the energy and go nuts!" and it looks very jarring. More restraint in his footwork arm movements would highlight the difficulty that his feet are doing and then adding less mechanical more meaningful arm movements in the rest of his program would help the whole program look more balanced. There's a reason why many say his programs are so formulaic, because often they are just a slew of jumps followed by an intense period of footwork near the end. Only recently has he actually been paying more attention to more balanced choreography.
Level 4 footwork that requires full body movement doesn't mean flailing otherwise people would just do jumping jacks in the middle of their footwork ("Hey look, all my limbs are moving, give me a level 4!")... there are plenty of skaters with more subtlety in their movements that obtain Level 4 without the flailing and hip thrusts (Chan, Abbott, Suzuki, and Kostner are great examples). Also, how exactly do hip thrusts express the slew of programs he's happened to incorporate them in? I know they are intended to play to the crowd but they're distracting and rather clownish.
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If a skater wants to be themselves and not only play to the judges but also the crowds which may contain a lot of their paying fans they may do moves that fans like while also paying attention to the judges and scoring system and judge and technical panels. The idea that a skater should do only one kind of thing to choreograph A step sequence or whole program to best be cop is why so many don't like it I think. Like "it must be subtle!" "no hip movements!" why? Let them all express themselves and get the points If they can. I think you are very close to describing a type of program all skaters must be mandated to do as their "free" program lol!
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
I think Plushenko's desire to compete on his home ice for a fourth Olympic medal of any color is too strong to be checked by anybody but his own poor health. Is the surgery he is undergoing an effective solution to his long-plaguing back pains? I do not have a clue about such treatment, but it sounds really scary to me. Is there any medical specialist here who is willing to share some of his/her ideas with us on this surgery? Does anybody know why Plushenko just chose Israel for his back treatment?
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
But it's not appropriate for the program. It's like doing a chicken dance in the middle of a tango. Hip thrusts are fine... for his Sex Bomb exhibition, but in a freeskate where he's trying to convey power and elegance and command of the ice, hip thrusts look hokey.
I don't think hip thrusts in whatever variation he does them to whatever piece of music would always be inappropriate in any program. I don't see what the big deal is. It's not like he is grabbing both the hips and really doing something inartfully. I don't think it should be a deduction in pcs. If the isu wanted to ban them it could but it would have to describe in detail what hip movements are not allowed.
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- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
I haven't seen Plushenko hip thrusting in a long time, not in this Lp not the last year one. He hasn't done the bielman spin since 2005, from time to time he does a catch foot spiral, he has learnt new spin positions in so much late age, his camel is still one of the best. Is this a thread to analyze Plushenko or Yagudin' s past career?
Yes, Mishin and Tarasova were fortune tellers, they prepared Yagudin for COP!
By the way, we have an Yagudin fan fest thread and only 5 posts so far, even I doubt your Yagudin's fan...
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- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
I think they are specialists of this operation
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2009
Oh my god. Poor Yag. He gets remembered only when the name of Plu shows up. And on Plu thread, even there is a Yag thread nearby. I really pity the dude. With such fans he doesn't need haters. 
At least our Canadian buddies didn't bring Osmond with transitions here.
I assume we should be grateful for that.
At least our Canadian buddies didn't bring Osmond with transitions here.
I assume we should be grateful for that.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
I figured this out too since he usually went to Munich the last ten years but this time in Israel. I have no idea what this surgery is about but only the mention of plastic discs and jumbing in fs scares me. Mishin said it is tested the last 3 years and there are more athletes using it, he doesnt say who though.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2012
Mishin told to the media the back surgery went well!!!!!!
________________________
The people have many opinions, favorites ...
President of ISU Mr Cinquanta told to Gorshkov (http://www.rg.ru/2010/11/23/plushenko.html) :
"Президент ИСУ Оттавио Чинкванта говорил мне, что считает Плющенко, возможно, лучшим одиночником всех послевоенных времен."
google translater:
"ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta told me that he thinks Plushenko probably the best single skater of the postwar era."
And you are right Evgenia, Yag is better in North-America but not in Europe and Asia.
________________________
The people have many opinions, favorites ...
President of ISU Mr Cinquanta told to Gorshkov (http://www.rg.ru/2010/11/23/plushenko.html) :
"Президент ИСУ Оттавио Чинкванта говорил мне, что считает Плющенко, возможно, лучшим одиночником всех послевоенных времен."
google translater:
"ISU President Ottavio Cinquanta told me that he thinks Plushenko probably the best single skater of the postwar era."
And you are right Evgenia, Yag is better in North-America but not in Europe and Asia.
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- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Yes, Mishin and Tarasova were fortune tellers, they prepared Yagudin for COP!
By the way, we have an Yagudin fan fest thread and only 5 posts so far, even I doubt your Yagudin's fan...
No, what Jammers is saying is that Yagudin was an all-rounded skater, which the CoP system rewards. So theoretically, had he skated in CoP he would have done well because he had no major weaknesses.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
That was fast, thanx for the news, is it over already?
Of course he would have done well.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2012
The Yagudin thread is here, people!:
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?39933-Alexei-Yagudin&p=705128#post705128
As one who enjoyed Yagudin's skating a lot, I find this all terribly depressing. Really? You can only think of him to disparage Plushy?! Both of them deserve better.
I'm so glad to hear that the operation went well. Even if CanadianSkaterGuy has zero interest in it - although I'd say it's far more on topic than what he chooses to discuss. Whether Plushy is too old for the sport or no, has nothing to do with whether or not he was better than a skater who retired a decade ago.
http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?39933-Alexei-Yagudin&p=705128#post705128
As one who enjoyed Yagudin's skating a lot, I find this all terribly depressing. Really? You can only think of him to disparage Plushy?! Both of them deserve better.
I'm so glad to hear that the operation went well. Even if CanadianSkaterGuy has zero interest in it - although I'd say it's far more on topic than what he chooses to discuss. Whether Plushy is too old for the sport or no, has nothing to do with whether or not he was better than a skater who retired a decade ago.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
When did I say I have zero interest in it? I've said before that I hope he recovers for the Sochi Olympics. Just because I'm not gushing over him doesn't mean I'm not interested in seeing the guy do well. The comment I was going to make is of course Mishin will say the surgery went well, even if it didn't, so we should take it with a grain of salt.
