Is Tonya Back or Not!!

[SusanBeth]

My apologies for erasing this.

I realized I was getting too emotional and I need to shut up already.

 

[euterpe]

Rgirl said: "You mean like Rudi Galindo and Michelle Kwan, to name just two skaters who came from low-income backgrounds to become champions? And that's just in figure skating."

Nancy Kerrigan came from a working-class background, too. So did Todd Eldredge, whose figure skating career was supported by his community.

 

[soogar]

First of all, just b/c you're from a working class background doesn't mean that you are poor. I'm pretty sure Todd's father made a nice living as a fisherman to help support his son's skating in the early years before the costs got out of hand and the same thing goes for Nancy. Michelle's family doesn't strike me as poor either (her father working in computers) . Poor people are definitely disadvantaged in skating for all sorts of reasons, one of them being that most poor families don't even think about giving their kids skating lessons.

As for Rudy , he was extremely lucky. Rudy is the exception rather than the norm and I believe that had he had an adequate support network and funding, he might have been an Olympic medalist. There's also a lot of luck in obtaining sponsorship dollars as well and it depends on contacts and perhaps some politicking as well.

 

[euterpe]

Michelle's father was formerly a systems analyst at PacBell. I had the same type of job at another major telecom company. Take it from one who knows, the pay is not great, certainly not enough to finance TWO competitive skaters in the Kwan family.

 

[soogar]

A systems analyst makes around 50K a year (at least in NYC) and I would think that the pay in Ca would be competitive with NYC. That is NOWHERE near poor. He definitely had enough spare money to get his kids involved in skating to the point where they were good enough for someone to be willing to sponsor them. Very few skaters have families that make that kind of money to support top level skating w/out outside help. That supports skating being a sport that is inaccessible. For the life of me, I can't even understand why there is such an effort to bring skating to the poor kids of Harlem when the middle class are priced out of the sport. Why even bother starting kids out in a sport when they won't be able to afford it later on? I suppose posters will lambast me and say that the purpose in bringing the sport to the masses is to find talent and that the ones with the most promise will get the financial support. My concern is that there are lots of kids who don't display the right attributes that will attract money right away, yet they can continue with the sport and maybe eventually develop into a top competitor or perhaps further the sport in other ways such as coaching and choreography.

 

[John King]

Is Tonya back or not?

Question:Who wants to tour/compete with her?Not Stars On Ice.Not Champions On Ice.Not Skate The Nation,Tara's Miracle Match tour,Artur Dimitriev's St. Petersburg Show,the Candeleuro tour,or anyone I'm aware of.She had her chance at the ESPN2 competition back in 1999,was featured on BOI,IFS and SOS magazines,interviewed on Larry King and Maury Povich,everything looked peachy.But then she screwed it up with that hubcap incident with her then-boyfriend.Her agent cut all ties with her,and everyone dropped her like a hot potato.Things got so pathetic,there was a rumour that she was going to star in a Topless Ice Skating Show.That rumour was all hogwash,but it shows you to what depths she's fallen when everyone at first believed it.

At least Oksana Baiul cleaned up her act.Tonya just can't seem to get it together.

 

[Yazmeen]

Oksana not only cleaned up her act, but she can now admit to her past mistakes. That's one of Tonya's big problems, she can't bring herself to admit she EVER did anything wrong, be it her practice habits, the way she approached the 92 Olympics, the "whack," the hubcap incident--NOTHING!!!! Its as though everything just "happens" to Tonya, she's a passive participant who can't control anything, so in her own mind, she's never at fault and she justifies her innocence this way.

I think in Tonya's mind, she's had the world's longest run of bad luck and being misunderstood--she should be in the record books for it!!!

 

[nymkfan51]

Yazmeen .. I couldn't agree more!

 

[Rgirl]

Maybe I have my facts wrong. I understood that Danny Kwan (Michelle's father) emigrated from China to the US with virtually nothing; that for many years he worked two jobs at a time, ie, restaurant jobs, cleaning jobs, anything he could get, to save money; and that for several years the entire Kwan family--Michelle, Karen, their brother, and the parents--all lived in a one-room cabin up at Lake Arrowhead so Michelle and Karen could train there. I knew Danny Kwan eventually got the systems analyst job at Pacific Bell, but I don't know when it was, ie, if it was before or after he started raising his family.
Surely somebody here must know the scoop

Anyway, by saying "to name just two" when I mentioned Rudi and Michelle was to emphasize that I was naming just two skaters who came from low-income backgrounds. True, Rudi is the exception rather than the rule but he went through many personal problems--drug abuse and death in the family, death of coaches, and the drug problem he had himself. My point was that Rudi overcame these problems and continues to rise above a tough life rather, take responsibility for the things he did to himself, and be a positive force in figure skating. As I said, I think Tonya's life--or anybody's--can be justly considered in a couple of sentences, but after a while, after all the opportunities she had even after the scandal (thanks, John King, for the list), at least I get tired of hearing Tonya grousing for yet another break.

Frankly, I say fine, revoke the lifetime ban, let her try eligible skating again. I truly have no ill will towards Tonya (pardoxically, I think she already has enough for herself) and indeed would love to see her pull herself together and have a meaningful life. Maybe a few regional competitions at her age just might get through to her that she is about a dozen years past being "one of the greatest skaters in the world." OTOH, I don't know if anything short of a religious experience would open her eyes.

I know I've joked about her, but in truth I think it's sad to see anybody's life continually spin out of control due to their own actions and behavioral problems they can't overcome.
Rgirl

 

[Dee4707]

Re: Is Tonya back or not?

there was a rumour that she was going to star in a Topless Ice Skating Show.That rumour was all hogwash,but it shows you to what depths she's fallen when everyone at first believed it.

That sure would have been titillating!!!!

Dee

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

rGirl - I think Danny Kwan and Rudi's sister had a lot of belief and love in their respective abilities and gave them as much support as they could afford. Not easy certainly but as you say they seem to be the exception unless others know the financial struggle of other skaters.

In Tonya's case she didn't have anyone that believed in her. I see her, unfortunately, as one step above a street kid left to make it on her own. Anyone know how she found herself in a skating rink? there is still no one to guide her. It's elementary psychology to figure out her behavioural problems.

Which is my point regarding underpriviledged kids. They probably don't even know skating exists and if they do, who cares? No one is going to guide them.

Joe

 

[Tonichelle]

know not everyone agrees, but I believe she was fully involved in the plot from day one. And I also believe her lifetime ban was appropriate. As a skater, I firmly believe she has no business representing a wonderful sport after she participated in a criminal act against a fellow competitor, no matter how major or minor that involvment was.

I'm not a skater, but ITA.


I just find it funny that a lot of the posts seem to blame the USFSA for Tonya's problems after 1994... like she had no choice but to bash her boyfriends face in with a hubcap and the like...

yeah poor princess Tonya... she was so robbed from the life she could have had...

I know I've joked about her, but in truth I think it's sad to see anybody's life continually spin out of control due to their own actions and behavioral problems they can't overcome.

is it can't? or wont??? I too find it sad and wished she had pulled herself together... pre-94 I was a fan of hers... I couldn't have been more than 9 when the scandal happened... at that early age I felt hurt... so yeah, maybe I'm hard on her, but she was a grown up who acted immaturly and has no business representing the US of A

 

[cianni]

Tonya

I agree Joesitz. Having someone believe in you and love you is the foundation needed by all. Some get it and some dont. Not everyone rises above that self image of unworthiness. I try not to judge as I try not to judge the alcoholic or drug addict. But for the grace of God go I. I always try to keep in mind that as harsh as I judge others it will come back to me in time. Lets all stop judging Tonya . I wish her well and she may surprise us all but she doesnt have to.

 

[mpal2]

Of course I don't know the full story, but I kind of felt that Tonya did have support. She got it from her dad. Not perfect but it was there. He told her that Jeff wouldn't be good for her but if she insisted he would try to get along with him. It's unfortunate that she didn't listen to him. Also, who is the lady that she called her adoptive mom?

It's not a fairy tale, but she wasn't completely alone and loveless.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

mPal - Interesting. You felt her father spoike to her about her boyfriend? Has that ever been in print? This isn't meant personally, but aren't people's feelings the start of rumors?

Joe

 

[mpal2]

Joe,

It was a tv special. I don't remember if I taped it or not, but I think it was the one on E!. They interviewed her father and he specifically said that Jeff was never good for her and he was against him from the beginning. He attempted to be nice because it was important to Tonya.

Edited to clarify why I felt that she had her father's support. I wasn't sure at first if the people interviewed in the special were attention seekers or not, but I ended up with the impression that they really cared about what was best for her.

For obvious reasons, the special could have made Tonya look really bad but they ended up with a final biography that leaves the most favorable impression without being unrealistic. IMO

I also said that her father's support wasn't perfect because that's what he said. He wished he had been more insistant about her leaving Jeff. Tonya and her dad were not on the best of terms at the time and he was afraid of losing contact with her completely.

 

[Rgirl]

A Mile...

Yeah, Toni, it's amazing the stupid things an adult in her early 20s who's led a very cloistered life will do or say and how, as she matures, she just keeps on doing and saying them.

...I try not to judge as I try not to judge the alcoholic or drug addict. But for the grace of God go I. I always try to keep in mind that as harsh as I judge others it will come back to me in time. Lets all stop judging Tonya. I wish her well and she may surprise us all but she doesnt have to.

Well said, Cianni. I think there's a difference between feeling frustrated or angry over Tonya and feeling superior to her. It's a corny old line, but until we've skated a mile in Tonya's boots...
Rgirl

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

mpal2 - I really didn't doubt you, I just wondered what I missed, and I did miss that E thing. I'm sure the father had to say something in his daughter's favor (and his). At that point in his life what else could he do?

from what you say there wasn't anything about his support of figure skating. I really think she had to do that on her own. I think from the father's standpoint her skating was keeping her out of trouble. He didn't have to worry about her. hmm, if he only knew.

the bottom line for me, is that she went into a sport which caters to the privileged. Sadly, Tonya was not in that environment.

I'd like to believe her that she didn't know the Gilhooly plan but I'm not sure and if she was a part of it, that is wrong.

Joe

 

[Mistyeyed]

I used to did not think so. HOWEVER, in light of how in ANY OTHER sport the athletes can and do just about anything and are able to continue in their respective sports, while the media circulates around them they contine to compete. With THIS in mind, I would say that she could/should be able to go at it in the pros. She is too old for A/division and who would take her as anything but a joke there after all this time and what she has been through. In Pros she would cause a stir, too be sure, but face it skating in general needs something to get it some attention in the rankings and one thing Tonya is good at is causing a stir and drawing attention to herself. I didn't say it was a good thing, I simply said she would cause a stirring of the pot.

 

[Mistyeyed]

Courts always take into consideration heat-of-passion vs. premedatation, and it weights heavily on the sentence.

I don't think that one can really equate a player losing it in the heat-of-the-moment and momentarily choking his coach with a skater who methodically planned another skater's death for weeks in advance.



EITHER WAY U LOOK AT IT-----the end result is death





I also think that we need to separate legal vs. USFSA sentences.

She cut a deal (as so many criminals do) and served her time. She's done with all that.

The USFSA however, is a club. Like it or not, they are private and can make up any rules they want. If they want to ban her for life because they hate bushy bangs or bad home perms, legally they can. She could sue, but I doubt she'd win.

There is however, no rule against her skating for another



country. Notice that no one wants her though.