ISU passes new judging system

[Emilieanne]

Here is the link to the latest...

ISU
Passes New Judging System

I guess that Dr. Rogge's presence had some effect on the ISU powers-that-be. They actually got something done! Wonders sometimes never cease.

 

[floskate]

I asked this question elsewhere and no one answered as of yet, but will there be changes to the new system before the start of the new season or will they stick with the existing CoP?

I want to download and study it but it will take forever and don't want to waste my time if there are going to be changes any time soon. Does anyone have any information on this?

Thanks in advance

Flo

 

[SusanBeth]

Following the vote, the Congress adopted a resolution to approve the ISU Judging System unanimously.

Huh? If the vote was 43 out of 54 for passing, why are they trying to force it to be unanimous? Is this a way of making everyone agree whether they do or not? I can only believe this is figure skating's version of democracy.

Edited because that sentence fragment was driving me nuts.

 

[Mathman]

Actually, I think that kind of political doublespeak is common for parliamentary bodies. Like at nominating conventions, after the big dog fight to determine the party's nominee, then they pass a resolution saying that he/she is the unanimous choice.

Mathman

 

[Lcp88]

I can't say I'm surprised, though its too bad. So long 6.0
Laura

 

[Ptichka]

As far as I am concerned -- good riddance!

Besides, I guess we'll still see 6.0's at Pro-Ams and Cheesefests for a while.

 

[Antilles]

I wonder if all National competitions will switch. It makes sense, but they aren't required to do so, IIRC.

 

[skatingfan5]

Secret Judging here to stay

I wonder if all National competitions will switch. It makes sense, but they aren't required to do so, IIRC.

No, and I doubt if all the smaller federations have the necessary $$ and infrastructure to set up the computers needed or to have enough of their judges trained to effectively use them and the system. It would be a major effort and one that hardly could be accomplished in a short time span.

I read on SkateFans that the USFSA's proposal to eliminate the secret judging aspect of the system was narrowly defeated 30-19; they needed 2/3 to pass the proposal, or 3 more votes. So close and yet so far. I really don't believe for a minute that the secrecy is a good thing -- or that the judges are so "fragile" that they need to hide behind it from their federations or the press. The skaters put it all on the line when they go out on the ice to compete; too bad the ISU thinks that their judges don't have 1/10 the courage. (Oh, I forgot, the junior competition judges evidently are stronger, because their names WILL be revealed on the scoring sheets. At least some will have the guts to stand and be counted.)

 

[Ptichka]

I'm sure Nationals will go to CoP; otherwise, skaters may have to do a different variation of their programs to get rewarded under 6.0 rather than CoP. Now, regionals and sectionals are a different story. Though in theory it is at the lower levels that CoP can be most helpful by pointing out to skaters exactly where they need most improvement.

BTW, I guess if USFSA will use CoP, it will stil be the non-secret variety (the computer program won't be hard to fix).

 

[sk8tngcanuck]

Does anyone know if this is going to be imposed at the grassroots level (IE pre preliminary) or if it is going to begin at the senior level?

I personally feel it should begin at a grass roots level in order for all skaters and coaches to get a complete understanding, but I am unclear on how and at what level it is being implemented.

Canuck

 

[berthes ghost]

I'm not sure how I feel, but my latest thought is that it depends on if you lean more toward FS as a sport or FS as an artform.

I know that people complain all the time about 6.0s for skaters like T&D and MK, squawking about "But they had a 3 second delay" etc... but I think that the old system was about the big picture.

Could you imagine a museum explainig why it purchased a Van Gogh rather than a Surat because: "Well, we broke down all of the elements of painting and assigned points for each. Van Gogh's broad type brushstrokes have a base value of 56.4, but he gets 2.3 points extra because he strokes in both directions. Surat's pointalism doesn't require the same kind of dexterity, being only dots rather than broad strokes, so they are only level 2 strokes." etc...

Perhaps reducing a program to the sum of it's parts is keeping FS more of a sport. Recognizing T&D as masters is subjective I suppose, but having enjoyed the Protopopovs, Toller, Peggy and all of the other great skaters who you just knew were great artists by looking at them, I will miss the 6.0 system where a champ wasn't made because her Salchow was 2.3 feet off the ice rather than 1.9.

 

[Ptichka]

BG, I think you got it right when you said that CoP keeps it more of a sport. After all, FS is an Olympic Sport. Unfortunately, the pro circuit is all but non-existant right now. I recall from Katia's book how she talks about flopping at her and Sergei's first World Pro Championship, because they were skating the way they did as amateurs.

What I think would be best for the sport is keeping the eligible competition as more of a "sport", CoP and all. Then, resurrect the pro circuit, and keep at at 10.0 system, encouraging the "overall picture".

 

[floskate]

I'm not sure how I feel, but my latest thought is that it depends on if you lean more toward FS as a sport or FS as an artform.

I know that people complain all the time about 6.0s for skaters like T&D and MK, squawking about "But they had a 3 second delay" etc... but I think that the old system was about the big picture.

Could you imagine a museum explainig why it purchased a Van Gogh rather than a Surat because: "Well, we broke down all of the elements of painting and assigned points for each. Van Gogh's broad type brushstrokes have a base value of 56.4, but he gets 2.3 points extra because he strokes in both directions. Surat's pointalism doesn't require the same kind of dexterity, being only dots rather than broad strokes, so they are only level 2 strokes." etc...

Perhaps reducing a program to the sum of it's parts is keeping FS more of a sport. Recognizing T&D as masters is subjective I suppose, but having enjoyed the Protopopovs, Toller, Peggy and all of the other great skaters who you just knew were great artists by looking at them, I will miss the 6.0 system where a champ wasn't made because her Salchow was 2.3 feet off the ice rather than 1.9.

Fabulous post!!

 

[thvudragon]

I asked this question elsewhere and no one answered as of yet, but will there be changes to the new system before the start of the new season or will they stick with the existing CoP?

I want to download and study it but it will take forever and don't want to waste my time if there are going to be changes any time soon. Does anyone have any information on this?

Thanks in advance

Flo

The CoP will always be subject to change, but the basics will stay the same.

http://ww2.isu.org/judging/Content&Criteria.html
-This was the version used during the GPs last season.

Here are the new proposals which I assume were already approved.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-147005-164221-nav-list,00.html

It's great reading . Notice that a deduction of 1.00 will now be taken for all falls and in Pairs and Ice Dance, 2.00 if by both. Also, there are now 4 levels of difficulty for Ice Dance! (Except for spins.)
TV

 

[Mathman]

Great reading, indeed!

TV, can you correct the first URL in your post? Even after changing ww2 to www it still didn't work.

Mathman

 

[thvudragon]

Corrected.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Re: Secret Judging here to stay

I read on SkateFans that the USFSA's proposal to eliminate the secret judging aspect of the system was narrowly defeated 30-19; they needed 2/3 to pass the proposal, or 3 more votes. So close and yet so far. I really don't believe for a minute that the secrecy is a good thing -- or that the judges are so "fragile" that they need to hide behind it from their federations or the press. The skaters put it all on the line when they go out on the ice to compete; too bad the ISU thinks that their judges don't have 1/10 the courage. (Oh, I forgot, the junior competition judges evidently are stronger, because their names WILL be revealed on the scoring sheets. At least some will have the guts to stand and be counted.)

skatingfan5 - Any chance that the names of the 19 opposed to banning the secrecy will be revealed? And what prompted the rule to be passed only by a 2/3rds majority? Who didn;t have the guts.

I for one do not suck up to the idea that judges are afraid of their Federations. The Federations would already know who is going tote the party line before the competitions, and they are the ones who will judge.

Joe

 

[Callystarr]

I just have one problem, I don't think that you should be able to get credit at all for a fall no matter how difficult the jump is...

If a jump is worth 8.0pts and you fall...you should get "0" not...5.0pts.

 

[thvudragon]

I just have one problem, I don't think that you should be able to get credit at all for a fall no matter how difficult the jump is...

If a jump is worth 8.0pts and you fall...you should get "0" not...5.0pts.

What a logistics nightmare! So, a skater who performas a beautiful 3 axel, lands, but then loses the edge should get the same credit as a skater who attempts a 3axel, underrotates it by over 1/2 a rotation? A fall on a fully rotated quad should be worth less than a 1axel? Huh????

What about combos? Should those jumps just "not count" a skater falls on the 2nd jump of a combo and maybe breaking the Zayak rule because of it?

Sooo... instead of judging what skaters actually do, you want to judge by your own personal preference .

Do I think falls weren't punished enough? Yes and I assume that's why in CoP, 1.00 deductions will now be taken for ever fall. Your idea though is just ludicrous.

TV

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I just have one problem, I don't think that you should be able to get credit at all for a fall no matter how difficult the jump is...

If a jump is worth 8.0pts and you fall...you should get "0" not...5.0pts.

Praise to be! Can you imagine a skier getting time credit because he did not intend to fall? You can go right down the line in all the sports about falling. it is just tough #%&@(.

Either the jump was completed or there was no jump!! Over and out.

Joe