Jackson Synergy Boots - looking for experiences please

[Ic3Rabbit]

I actually got to try the Synergy Elite boots in the recommended size. They hadn't been heated. They were the correct length, however they would need to be punched out a small amount to accommodate my toes, but there was masses of space above my toes in the toe box and they were much too wide in the heel - both things that can't easily be changed by a bit of heat molding
Interestingly the fit was totally different to the Debuts I tried on, as the toe box of the Debuts felt tiny and the tongue of the Debuts pressed right into the top of my foot / toes.
I was also surprised that the boots were not only much too wide on the heel but seemed to get wider going up from the heel and didn't have any padding to help lock / hold the heel in place. I tried lacing them as tightly as I could but I could lift my heel a fair bit as there was nothing to hold it in place. I don't have a particularly narrow heel or ankle so it was a bit strange.
The skate tech said he couldn't make them narrower, and even if he did the little padding that was in the ankles would soon compress and mean I wouldn't have any support.

At this point, you need customs.

Good luck!

 

[christy]

At this point, you need customs.

Good luck!

My longer term plan is to get Reidell customs. I just need to work out how I can meet with them, at an event, without having to travel to the factory multiple times.
I was just trying to find an interim solution until I can make that happen.

 

[tstop4me]

I actually got to try the Synergy Elite boots in the recommended size. They hadn't been heated. They were the correct length, however they would need to be punched out a small amount to accommodate my toes, but there was masses of space above my toes in the toe box and they were much too wide in the heel - both things that can't easily be changed by a bit of heat molding
Interestingly the fit was totally different to the Debuts I tried on, as the toe box of the Debuts felt tiny and the tongue of the Debuts pressed right into the top of my foot / toes.
I was also surprised that the boots were not only much too wide on the heel but seemed to get wider going up from the heel and didn't have any padding to help lock / hold the heel in place. I tried lacing them as tightly as I could but I could lift my heel a fair bit as there was nothing to hold it in place. I don't have a particularly narrow heel or ankle so it was a bit strange.
The skate tech said he couldn't make them narrower, and even if he did the little padding that was in the ankles would soon compress and mean I wouldn't have any support.

Thanks for the feedback on the Synergy Elite. Really interesting. Over the past several years, Jackson has been moving to standardize their higher-end boots (sold without a pre-mounted blade; this includes the Debut) and even the boots on their higher-end kits (Freestyle and Elle) on the Elite last; with a couple of exceptions for wide widths. Surprising they would use a different last for Synergy Elite.

 

[christy]

Thanks for the feedback on the Synergy Elite. Really interesting. Over the past several years, Jackson has been moving to standardize their higher-end boots (sold without a pre-mounted blade; this includes the Debut) and even the boots on their higher-end kits (Freestyle and Elle) on the Elite last; with a couple of exceptions for wide widths. Surprising they would use a different last for Synergy Elite.

I'm now wondering if the Debuts were a standard / regular width, as I know the Synergy were a wide, but I was also shocked by just how little padding they had in the ankles compared to my old Jackson Elites, which were a C width. I was expecting them to have a reasonable amount of padding to lock the ankle in place, but they wasn't anything
One of the boots was the display model, so may have been tried on, and the lining compressed? But the other boot was still wrapped in the box.

 

[celia]

I actually got to try the Synergy Elite boots in the recommended size. They hadn't been heated. They were the correct length, however they would need to be punched out a small amount to accommodate my toes, but there was masses of space above my toes in the toe box and they were much too wide in the heel - both things that can't easily be changed by a bit of heat molding
Interestingly the fit was totally different to the Debuts I tried on, as the toe box of the Debuts felt tiny and the tongue of the Debuts pressed right into the top of my foot / toes.
I was also surprised that the boots were not only much too wide on the heel but seemed to get wider going up from the heel and didn't have any padding to help lock / hold the heel in place. I tried lacing them as tightly as I could but I could lift my heel a fair bit as there was nothing to hold it in place. I don't have a particularly narrow heel or ankle so it was a bit strange.
The skate tech said he couldn't make them narrower, and even if he did the little padding that was in the ankles would soon compress and mean I wouldn't have any support.

Hi. I have semi-custom Jackson 5300 Supreme (formerly Elite) boots. I believe the semi-custom charge was $50. The differences I asked were for a "split width," so I got a C ball and A heel. Came with their standard LCF sole (traditional stacked heel look but the soles are carbon fiber, supposedly to make things lighter). Standard tongue. Heel/sole and tongues and stiffness can also all be changed in the "rapid custom." Took about 6 weeks, over the holiday season. In truth, I had time and if I could do it again, since the Supremes are MSRP $800 I would have gone with custom, which I believe start at Jackson at around $900 or $950 (maybe more now, this was last year), and I assume goes upwards with more custom changes. I didn't choose my selection to save $50, or time, I just had the odd idea that since when I had Jackson Premieres I basically had a nearly perfect Jackson "stock" foot, why change it if it isn't really broken. Long story short, one skate was a little too loose and my fitter put in some extra lining (not really padding) in the inside of the heel to make up the difference. Took some back and forth. Not worth it. If you are still considering the Supremes, maybe just get the customs unless you are really in a hurry.

 

[christy]

Hi. I have semi-custom Jackson 5300 Supreme (formerly Elite) boots. I believe the semi-custom charge was $50. The differences I asked were for a "split width," so I got a C ball and A heel. Came with their standard LCF sole (traditional stacked heel look but the soles are carbon fiber, supposedly to make things lighter). Standard tongue. Heel/sole and tongues and stiffness can also all be changed in the "rapid custom." Took about 6 weeks, over the holiday season. In truth, I had time and if I could do it again, since the Supremes are MSRP $800 I would have gone with custom, which I believe start at Jackson at around $900 or $950 (maybe more now, this was last year), and I assume goes upwards with more custom changes. I didn't choose my selection to save $50, or time, I just had the odd idea that since when I had Jackson Premieres I basically had a nearly perfect Jackson "stock" foot, why change it if it isn't really broken. Long story short, one skate was a little too loose and my fitter put in some extra lining (not really padding) in the inside of the heel to make up the difference. Took some back and forth. Not worth it. If you are still considering the Supremes, maybe just get the customs unless you are really in a hurry.

Thank you for the info. I always thought I had a Jackson foot as I had a few pairs a few years ago, but the newer models just don't seem to work as well for me. I think custom is the way to go, so this is just an interim solution until I can get them. I would like to try Risport too, but finding a pair to try is proving difficult.
So, it may just be better to go straignt to customs. From research and experience I'm favoring Reidell, but need to find a fitter and I was hoping to meet with them at an event to discuss the options they offer. I've never thought about Jackson for customs, but guess I'd need to go through the same process to see which works best.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Thank you for the info. I always thought I had a Jackson foot as I had a few pairs a few years ago, but the newer models just don't seem to work as well for me. I think custom is the way to go, so this is just an interim solution until I can get them. I would like to try Risport too, but finding a pair to try is proving difficult.
So, it may just be better to go straignt to customs. From research and experience I'm favoring Reidell, but need to find a fitter and I was hoping to meet with them at an event to discuss the options they offer. I've never thought about Jackson for customs, but guess I'd need to go through the same process to see which works best.

If you are somewhere between Jackson and Riedell, have you tried Graf?

 

[tstop4me]

I'm now wondering if the Debuts were a standard / regular width, as I know the Synergy were a wide, but I was also shocked by just how little padding they had in the ankles compared to my old Jackson Elites, which were a C width. I was expecting them to have a reasonable amount of padding to lock the ankle in place, but they wasn't anything
One of the boots was the display model, so may have been tried on, and the lining compressed? But the other boot was still wrapped in the box.

* It's highly unlikely that the lining on the display model was compressed significantly. I think you mentioned they just got them in recently. How many skaters would have tried them on? And there's not much permanent compression just from lacing them up for a brief period.

* I haven't seen a Synergy, but Jackson has reduced the heel and ankle padding before. From a previous post in this thread, you and I both have had the same vintage of previous Elite (~late 2014 leather; except I have the men's suede version). I too absolutely loved the padding in that model, particularly since my previous boots were an old pair of Riedell Royals: a world of difference. Around late 2015/early 2016 the Elite was changed from leather to synthetic microfiber uppers; and the padding was thinned out. I know some skaters who went from the old to the new and didn't like the thinner padding. But I also know one skater (also a coach) who preferred the thinner padding. As usual, personal preference varies.

* I'll second what celia wrote in Reply #25. If you really liked your old Elite, take a look at the current Supreme 5300. But prices have recently gone up again, list price is US$800/CD$900: way too pricey for an interim solution with a so-so workaround (either stuffing a too large boot or stretching a too small boot to make up a full 1 cm difference). But you should at least consider a custom version. I recently got the men's version (5362), so I can give you a direct comparison with the ~2014 version.

(1) Don't be confused by the name. The current Supreme is not the latest version of the previous Supreme (and before that, the Elite Supreme). It is in fact the latest version of the previous Elite. You can still view marketing materials from ~mid 2020, in which the 5300 was introduced as the Elite 5300. Then later changed to the Supreme 5300. Jackson marketing just likes to sow confusion.

(2) The Supreme is now back to leather. So if you prefer leather, that's good news.

(3) The padding is about the same as before. On my pair of Supremes, the padding feels slightly thinner, but not significantly so. I don't know whether that's a deliberate design change or within normal manufacturing tolerances.

(4) The fit is pretty much the same (again probably within normal manufacturing tolerances).

(5) As celia mentioned, the outsole is now Leather Carbon Fiber (LCF) composite, clad with a rubber tread on the front portion of the sole and on the heel (the mounting plates of the blade rest on the rubber treads). This is better than the previous leather outsole. At least on my pair, the manufacturing quality of the LCF outsole is greatly improved from one I saw on an Elite (with synthetic uppers) I saw several years ago .

(6) The eyelets are set back more. Jackson claims this provides a wider cuff to better wrap the feet. Not sure I feel much of a difference, but the set-back eyelets do make it slightly harder to lace up; but not a big deal.

(7) A major difference is the new 6K tongue. The old tongue was backed with sponge foam rubber. The new tongue is backed with compressed felt. It is much stiffer, less compliant, and requires a lot more break-in. The front of the tongue is also different. The old tongue had a plain front. The new tongue has a series of horizontal ridges molded into it. These ridges act as lace guides to keep the laces in place. They do work reasonably well, but you need to lace more deliberately to seat the laces in the guides. In the past, Jackson has also had tongues with lace hooks on the tongue. The 6K tongue has done away with the lace hooks on the tongue. If you go custom, you can choose a different tongue, if you wish.

 

[christy]

If you are somewhere between Jackson and Riedell, have you tried Graf?

I haven't. None of the fitters I've been to carry them, or have any knowledge of them, so when I've asked if they think Graf would be worth trying they've told me they don't think so, and said that they couldn't get them in anyway. With all of the local places it seems like supply of everything except Edea is limited.

 

[christy]

* It's highly unlikely that the lining on the display model was compressed significantly. I think you mentioned they just got them in recently. How many skaters would have tried them on? And there's not much permanent compression just from lacing them up for a brief period.

* I haven't seen a Synergy, but Jackson has reduced the heel and ankle padding before. From a previous post in this thread, you and I both have had the same vintage of previous Elite (~late 2014 leather; except I have the men's suede version). I too absolutely loved the padding in that model, particularly since my previous boots were an old pair of Riedell Royals: a world of difference. Around late 2015/early 2016 the Elite was changed from leather to synthetic microfiber uppers; and the padding was thinned out. I know some skaters who went from the old to the new and didn't like the thinner padding. But I also know one skater (also a coach) who preferred the thinner padding. As usual, personal preference varies.

* I'll second what celia wrote in Reply #25. If you really liked your old Elite, take a look at the current Supreme 5300. But prices have recently gone up again, list price is US$800/CD$900: way too pricey for an interim solution with a so-so workaround (either stuffing a too large boot or stretching a too small boot to make up a full 1 cm difference). But you should at least consider a custom version. I recently got the men's version (5362), so I can give you a direct comparison with the ~2014 version.

(1) Don't be confused by the name. The current Supreme is not the latest version of the previous Supreme (and before that, the Elite Supreme). It is in fact the latest version of the previous Elite. You can still view marketing materials from ~mid 2020, in which the 5300 was introduced as the Elite 5300. Then later changed to the Supreme 5300. Jackson marketing just likes to sow confusion.

(2) The Supreme is now back to leather. So if you prefer leather, that's good news.

(3) The padding is about the same as before. On my pair of Supremes, the padding feels slightly thinner, but not significantly so. I don't know whether that's a deliberate design change or within normal manufacturing tolerances.

(4) The fit is pretty much the same (again probably within normal manufacturing tolerances).

(5) As celia mentioned, the outsole is now Leather Carbon Fiber (LCF) composite, clad with a rubber tread on the front portion of the sole and on the heel (the mounting plates of the blade rest on the rubber treads). This is better than the previous leather outsole. At least on my pair, the manufacturing quality of the LCF outsole is greatly improved from one I saw on an Elite (with synthetic uppers) I saw several years ago .

(6) The eyelets are set back more. Jackson claims this provides a wider cuff to better wrap the feet. Not sure I feel much of a difference, but the set-back eyelets do make it slightly harder to lace up; but not a big deal.

(7) A major difference is the new 6K tongue. The old tongue was backed with sponge foam rubber. The new tongue is backed with compressed felt. It is much stiffer, less compliant, and requires a lot more break-in. The front of the tongue is also different. The old tongue had a plain front. The new tongue has a series of horizontal ridges molded into it. These ridges act as lace guides to keep the laces in place. They do work reasonably well, but you need to lace more deliberately to seat the laces in the guides. In the past, Jackson has also had tongues with lace hooks on the tongue. The 6K tongue has done away with the lace hooks on the tongue. If you go custom, you can choose a different tongue, if you wish.

Thank You so much for this. It is really helpful. I do think Jackson could work for me as they have in the past, but just not the Debut or Synergy. Of course with the way prices are I just need to decide whether to try the Jackson Supreme, if I can find it, or go for customs, and it may be decided by which option I can find first.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I haven't. None of the fitters I've been to carry them, or have any knowledge of them, so when I've asked if they think Graf would be worth trying they've told me they don't think so, and said that they couldn't get them in anyway. With all of the local places it seems like supply of everything except Edea is limited.

I'm starting to seriously doubt some of these "fitters". If they have no knowledge of Graf, then how can they say they "don't think so" regarding working for ones feet?

 

[christy]

I'm starting to seriously doubt some of these "fitters". If they have no knowledge of Graf, then how can they say they "don't think so" regarding working for ones feet?

I've visited a number of stores and browsed whilst waiting and in about 10 years I think I've seen one pair of Grafs, in a childs size, and that was in my local (hockey!) store, so I think some fitters really haven't had enough experience with Graf to be able to offer an opinion / advice on them, so "not sure" or "don't think so" may be the only opinion they can give. I definitely prefer them to be honest and not recommend something they have no experience of, as that's not been helpful in the past.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I've visited a number of stores and browsed whilst waiting and in about 10 years I think I've seen one pair of Grafs, in a childs size, and that was in my local (hockey!) store, so I think some fitters really haven't had enough experience with Graf to be able to offer an opinion / advice on them, so "not sure" or "don't think so" may be the only opinion they can give. I definitely prefer them to be honest and not recommend something they have no experience of, as that's not been helpful in the past.

I find that interesting to say the least. There are many a top US skater (for this instance) wore them and more than one was from the East Coast, so there are techs out there that know them, can get them, and so on. But I'll just leave it at that, if you can't find them then you can't. Just trying to help.

 

[christy]

I find that interesting to say the least. There are many a top US skater (for this instance) wore them and more than one was from the East Coast, so there are techs out there that know them, can get them, and so on. But I'll just leave it at that, if you can't find them then you can't. Just trying to help.

and I do appreciate the help and suggestions. I'm defintely open to trying different brands but it seems that some of the stores / fitters do just focus on the popular brands, like Edea, because that's what the majority of their customers want.

I just need to find a fitter that has a good selection of skates so I don't have to make too many road trips.