Japanese ladies: what really happened?

[brad640]

The Japanese have been hyped as the dominant force in ladies’ figure skating, but Fumie, Miki and Shizuka finished 5th, 6th and 9th respectively. Do they have the goods to back up the hype? Could Yoshie have done better? Was the worlds result really part of their sneak attack to sweep the Olympic podium?

 

[rain]

I don't think there was ever any plan of a sneak-attack for the Olympic podium. What I think happened was a deep field - something that was totally predictable by any serious watcher of skating throughout the year.

Both Arakawa and Suguri had struggled all season long, and while certainly still favorites for the top 10, were unlikely candidates for the podium. Of the Japanese ladies, I actually thought Suguri could have finished higher. She is the one known for a strong finish to the season.

As for Ando, she was overhyped from the beginning. She's never been strong at anything but jumps. At worlds she was docked for not being strong at anything but jumps. Totally predictable.

 

[chuckm]

I was glad to see Fumie as the top Japanese lady. She had to fight to get that place on the World team, after her frustrating season under Vassiliev. She is back with the Satos now and I am sure she is much happier.

 

[mzheng]

They are a sacrify lambs.
Especially Arakawa. She is a much refined skater deserve higher PCS scores.

 

[soogar]

They are a sacrify lambs.
Especially Arakawa. She is a much refined skater deserve higher PCS scores.

ITA

The judges have demonstrated that if Japanese skaters make mistakes, they will hammer them on everything. I think that what really happened was that Shirota didn't politick enough for her girls. Still all three of the Japanese girls finished in the top 10 which is excellent. They qualify 3 girls for the Olympics and they can get another stab at sweeping the podium (though I doubt they will sweep).

 

[Mathman]

Do you think the ISU is still mad at Japan for initially supporting the World Skating Federation and also opposing the CoP?

 

[hockeyfan228]

I think the biggest issue was Arakawa expecting to retire after squiring Ando through Dortmund and just going through the motions this year, especially in light of the boot and foot problems she had around Japanese Nationals and the media demands after she had won Worlds. Ando also suffered from the media spotlight, and it was a retreat rather than a fight to have replaced her quite good guitar concerto program with last year's weak Firebird. Suguri did very well, especially considering the upheaval of this season, ending right between her bronze-medal performances of a few years ago and last year's placement.

 

[mzheng]

Well, I think mark Arakawa's SS, TR, CH scores lower than Sokolova's just bluntly WRONG!!!! No matter what way you see it, especially the SS. Just from this you can tell judges are out of mission to hold her down.

 

[Excidra2001]

Shirota, definitely does not help her girls when she goes on record about sweeping the Olympics and not to put on a one-country show in Moscow. Whats a new skating fan going to think when the Japanese ladies do not sweep the podium in Turin? Scandal. You got that right.
Plus, its the Olympics next season, why put all the pressure on the Japanese ladies...I wonder how Ito feels about all this.

Regarding Arakawa. How about she fully-rotates her triples, thats a start. Arakawa definitely did not deserve to get higher SS, TS, CH and etc then what she got. Her LP was absolutely boring in my opinion. She could've done a lot better then what she produced in Moscow. After the mistakes and doubling jumps it seemed to me her performence was out-the-window.

Ando. I don't want to say the judges did her in but I thought she skated well in the LP. Susana Poyiko even beat her out, give me a break. I hope she knows what to do for next season.

Fumie. Am I the only who thought she should've been ahead of Kwan? She is definitely right up there with the best in the world in each element. She turned in a great LP and I don't know why the judges didn't judge her performence correctly.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Regarding Arakawa. How about she fully-rotates her triples, thats a start. Arakawa definitely did not deserve to get higher SS, TS, CH and etc then what she got. Her LP was absolutely boring in my opinion. She could've done a lot better then what she produced in Moscow. After the mistakes and doubling jumps it seemed to me her performence was out-the-window.

Doubling her jumps have nothing to do with Transitions and choreography. I can understand the judging not liking her choreography, but I will never understand her low transition marks...especially compared to the rest of the field considering Shizuka's programs have the most transitions.

 

[Mathman]

I agree with Excidra about Shizuka and Fumie, but not Ando. Except for the jumps, Ando's technique is simply not up to the standard of the world class skaters, especially her MITF. And in the LP she didn't compete a 3/3 and she made mistakes on her opening 3Lz/2Lo, on her 3F and on her 3T/2T.

Arakawa doubled her opening 3/3 attempt (I assume the plan was for a 3/3), doubled her loop, and doubled her toe loop. You just cannot give up that many points under the new judging system and expect your component scores to hold you up.

Arakawa's tech score was lower that that of Sarah Meier, Joanne Carter, Idora Hegel, Annette Dytrt, Joanne Rochette, Jenny Kirk, and Yan Liu, yet the judges placed her ahead of all these skaters on the basis of her component scores. So I do not see how anyone can say that Arakawa was mistreated by the judges.

Fumie skated great in all phases of he competition, and the only thing that killed her was missing her combination in the short. This kept her down in the second group for the LP. It shouldn't matter, but we all know that even under the CoP the judges tend to reserve the highest marks for the final group, so I think this hurt Fumie's final placement.

The whole comment about "holding back so that we don't accidently sweep the podium" is so silly that it must have been given tongue in cheek and then quoted out of context.

The other country that must be scratching it's head and wondering where they went wrong is Canada. Rochette was not able remotely to approach her astonishing performance at Canadian nationals. In the LP she was fifteenth, while Cynthia Phaneuf finished 21st out of 24.

Mathman

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

So I do not see how anyone can say that Arakawa was mistreated by the judges.

I can, especially in the SP. I really do not see why Arakawa got such crappy transition marks considering her SP and LP probably had the most transitions in the field. IMO, it seemed liked the judges were marking her down in that aspect.

 

[Eeyora]

Sadly many in America won't support you here. Not because it was "America's Own" Michelle Kwan but Fumie wasn't televised in the US on ESPN. Neither was Sokolova. We just saw the top six in the Freeskate.

Mathman. Great point I never knew the Japanese Federation supported WSF.

 

[Vash01]

IMO what really happened was the switch from 6.0 to COP. The Japanese girls had always focused more on the difficult jumps and those would have given them high placements under the 6.0. For the COP they had to be more complete skaters and Shizuka was certainly that- a complete skater, but she did not deliver in the LP, and she was undermarked in the SP (that was the most puzzling thing to me in the entire competition). Fumie was a little less competitive because she does not do 3-3 combination. Plus the field was very competitive.

It was quite obvious that in order to make it to the podium nobody could afford to skate a 'bad' program in any of the 3 phases of the competition. Shizuka had a bad LP, Fumie had a bad SP, and Miki has simply not developed the complete package yet. The skaters that made it to the podium had all had respectable (not necessarily clean) skates in all 3 phases. Even Michelle could not afford one bad performance (QR). The field was that competitive.

I don't think Yoshie would have helped, unless she was replacing Miki but Miki is a more reliable jumper.

I believe for the next year the Japanese ladies will work on developing their artistry along with the jumps (again, Shizuka and Fumie are already there, but will they be on the world team?)

Vash

 

[mzheng]

How can you mark Sokolova's SS higher than Arakawa was beyond me. Sokolova can sell her program yes, it might be reasonable to give her a little higher PE than arakawa. But to see her chopy sloppy stroking (just slightly better than Onda) ranking higher SS than Arakawa?

MM, I think Arakawa basically lost her Tech score on her down graded triples along with those bad GOE on those jumps. And moreever, she also lost some scores on some of her element level (was TT furiouse after Qual that a few of Arakawa's elements were called level 1 but the same elements were called level 2 and 3 in GPs?). She already got double deduction on these jumps, which IMO shouldn't be deduct again on SS.

Her SS right up there with Kwan, Cohen, and Irina. No matter how you see it, stroking, spin, MIFs, she has it all. And more than anyone of them she actually put some MIFs in her programs. IMO, Arakawa is a more refined and smoothed skater than Irina has ever been.

 

[mzheng]

I don't think Yoshie would have helped, unless she was replacing Miki but Miki is a more reliable jumper.

Yoshie is no better than Miki. Even Miki has better edge quality than Yoshie, JMO. I can never stand Yoshie those short lived chopping stroking. And moreever she should develop her own style, like Irina did, don't try to potrate lyric or ballerina when you can't be one.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Yoshie is no better than Miki. Even Miki has better edge quality than Yoshie, JMO. I can never stand Yoshie those short lived chopping stroking. And moreever she should develop her own style, like Irina did, don't try to potrate lyric or ballerina when you can't be one.

I agree about Yoshie, but she had one of my favorite SPs this season.

 

[Excidra2001]

Doubling her jumps have nothing to do with Transitions and choreography. I can understand the judging not liking her choreography, but I will never understand her low transition marks...especially compared to the rest of the field considering Shizuka's programs have the most transitions.

I wasn't implying that. I was speaking in terms of her entire LP. If Arakawa has more TS then all the top skaters, than how come the judges gave higher TS to skaters ranked 1-6 at worlds? Would you say they are blind? Other then her TS, I totally understand how they marked her in other aspects of her skating. Arakawa was by far not the same skater we saw win the world title in Germany. Just because her skating is seen as soft, lyrical to some does not constitute high PCs.
I'll say it again, her LP performence at worlds was boring and you could tell she was thinking through out her performence. She probably wanted a medal so bad that she was thinking what to add to her program, since she lost a lot of points.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

If Arakawa has more TS then all the top skaters, than how come the judges gave higher TS to skaters ranked 1-6 at worlds?

Um, that's precisely what we're complaining about. The judges not using PCS correctly. It's not like the judges have never been wrong before, I mean we all have our favorite competitions where we disagreed with the results.

 

[Linny]

Jmo

JMO, you can blast me if you like...
Fumie and Yoshie are interesting. Sizu and Mikki are boring.
Linny