Junior Men-Long Program

[Mao88]

That's a lot of could haves and might haves with something he doesn't have, to catch an imperfect Yan. Going forward, the other top Men will not be twiddling their thumbs waiting for him to catch up. Brown has a big task ahead for Senior podium.

I don't think so. The difference between a triple and double axel is 5.20 in base value. Multiplied 3 times, and that amounts to 15.60. Jason finished 7.55 points behind Han. Accordingly, in my view, the lack of a triple axel has cost Jason the title. I've started a new thread in 'The Edge' part of the forum on the issue of Jason's triple axel.

 

[Kelly]

Jason doesn't have a triple axel. 0x3=0.

 

[Mao88]

Here is Phil Hersh's article on the outcome. As Phil points out, Brown won on PCS in the LP. Hence, it was the lack of triple axel that ultimately let Jason down.

 

[yousunny]

Maybe not only three triple axels, but also three quad toes. Remember, this is junior event. Yan already included a quad solo jump in his short program at Chinese winter games. As soon as his 3A or 4T combinations become consistent, he will definitely add a 3A combination or a 4T combination into his long program.

 

[someoneelse]

isn't Yan only like 15 or something? doesn't that mean he will still compete at junior level next season? will brown and farris compete at seniors next season?

 

[babyskate]

Does anyone have video of the top three? It sounds like they all did great and I am anxious to see. With Farris and Brown the future of US mens looks great.

 

[someoneelse]

all the analysis about jason lacking 3axel costing him the title is pretty irrational, we could've said the same thing about joshua or even yan if he didn't win, e.g. oh that lack of 4toe / 3axel in combination has cost him the title/2axel-2toe-2toe would've changed everything.....after all this is a competition, it's not about what one should've done or even what he's capable of, it's about what one actually did on the rink.

 

[tampro1]

I hope to see Brown get his 3A next season or a quad
had he had these, he would have eaten Han Yan and Farris and won by a huge margin

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....I'm with you. Yes, it took Chan some time to secure the jump but at least he was trying it and falling all over the place to get it competition experience. World Junior Champ Rippon was "working on it" as a junior and it's still not that secure. Let's hope Brown really can do the jump, is brave enough to try it and gets some mileage on it to become a real threat in Seniors. This kid has pizazz but won't be a contender with it or a quad. Farris is pretty good in all aspects of his skating and has a pretty good triple axel and has shown his quad in practice. He might turn out to be the better skater in the long run. He's already getting a fan base with his looks. We all know that alone can take you far in this sport ala the Finnish ladies and many of the top dance teams :yes:

 

[Gliding on ice]

isn't Yan only like 15 or something? doesn't that mean he will still compete at junior level next season? will brown and farris compete at seniors next season?

Yan will be 16 in 3 days, and the JWC title is definitely the best birthday gift to him.

So he will be eligible to compete at seniors next season, and I am very looking forward to that.

 

[Gliding on ice]

Maybe not only three triple axels, but also three quad toes. Remember, this is junior event. Yan already included a quad solo jump in his short program at Chinese winter games. As soon as his 3A or 4T combinations become consistent, he will definitely add a 3A combination or a 4T combination into his long program.

Can't wait for that

 

[silverlake22]

I love Jason but I'm more excited about Farris at this point. He can jump well, spin well, has strong footwork, his 3a technique is good, he has 4t in practice (even tried it in competition at nats), shows good musicality, elegance, and sensitivity for the music, and he is very handsome. If Jason can get a 3a/4t/both then he might very well surpass Farris, but for right now, Farris is showing real promise and I definitely think he is capable of making a splash on senior ranks with his current set of skills. Jason is stronger than Joshua in a few aspects, but Joshua is really a complete package and I think that will serve him well. Of the current top senior men in the US, several of them have certain things they can do better than Josh, but Abbott is really the only one who is that solid across the board. If Joshua could end up like Jeremy I'd be very pleased .

Regardless to say, Jason is a huge talent. And I do think he will get a 3a. And he could be someone like Chan who, once he gets the big tricks down solid, blows the rest of the field away. But for right now, I just hope he works on 3a, tries it at his next competition, and keeps developing the rest of his wonderful skating.

Han Yan is also extremely impressive for one that is not yet 16. Between him and Song, China looks to be having a resurgence in singles.

 

[Mao88]

Woulda, coulda, shoulda....

It's obviously possible to speculate about every subject under the Sun. However, the whole point of going into a forum like this is to discuss, debate, analyse, and assess the 'what if's'. What would be the point of debate forum like this, without that? The fact that Brown does not have a triple axel is highly relevant in terms of why he lost this competition, and acquiring one is key to his future development.

 

[dorispulaski]

Congratulations to all the medallists!

Jason has 2 more years of junior eligibility, and from the Hersh article, he knows he isn't ever going to Senior Worlds from the US without a 3A (or, probably, a 4T). But wanting is not always getting. I so want him to get his big jumps because I want to be able to continue to watch him skate-something that won't happen if he hits seniors without at least either a 4t or a 3A.

I would like to point out another strength of Jason's-he just skated his SP & LP perfectly. Granted, it is significantly easier to skate 2perfect programs if you are not doing a 3A or 4T, but not every skater can maintain the control and concentration to do it, no matter what skills they have. Sasha Cohen for example, found it an impossible task.

And I hope Jason works equally on the 4T--There are a number of skaters who found the 4T easier to learn than the 3A, including Petr Barna, Patrick Chan, and AFAIR Kurt Browning. It may be so for Jason as well.

And I still think he should spend the summer working with Ouriashev in Chicago.

 

[koheikun90]

Yan will be 16 in 3 days, and the JWC title is definitely the best birthday gift to him.

So he will be eligible to compete at seniors next season, and I am very looking forward to that.

Isnt he also eligible to compete at senior worlds this year?

 

[sky_fly20]

^

Yes, Han Yan's goal is to transition seniors next season

 

[Macassar88]

Yan can have a quick leap in PCS by going to a top tier choreographer. China is lacking in that part of their training program but once a Chinese skater proves himself or herself worthy internationally, s/he gets sent overseas to the likes of Lori Nichols.

Also, the top tier choreographers are going to put more work into choreographing a junior world champion's program than they are a no name skater's.

 

[emma]

just wanted to say congrats to the medalists and really how exciting this junior men's field seems to be! Can't wait to see videos!!!

About Jason...what Doris said

 

[dorispulaski]

someoneelse! Welcome to Golden Skate! We hope you post long and often!

 

[Violet Bliss]

Also, the top tier choreographers are going to put more work into choreographing a junior world champion's program than they are a no name skater's.

The top choreographers don't do no names, which is why Chinese skaters need to make a name for themselves before going to the choreographers of the champions.

 

[dorispulaski]

Depends on the choreographer. Some rather subpar Chinese dancers have gotten choreo from Linichuk over the years, for example. And Zoueva & Shpilband are actively asking for novice and junior dancers. Some coaches and choreographers like to work with the newer talents, some not so much. As to who gets the best choreo from Marina, last year's best FD, IMO, went to Chock & Zuerlein, not their top 2 teams. So as I say, depends on the choreographer.

Aldridge & Eaton, who were also-rans last year, got great programs from Pasquale Camerlengo for this season, which was prior to them appearing at Junior Worlds at all.

In singles, Philip Mills, Ashley Wagner's choreographer, works with younger skaters, AFAIR.

And while he is not a big name, Rohene Ward, who works with Jason Brown, IMO is fabulous.

And if the person is willing to pay the big bucks, some big choreographers will take them on (just check out who choreographs for whom on ISU bios).

So having done well at Junior Worlds last year (6th), Han Yan should have had no problem this season and should have even less this coming season in finding a good choreographer and getting the great programs he deserves out of them, providing he or his federation is willing to pay the price for that.