Karl Schäfer Memorial (Vienna Cup) | Page 5 | Golden Skate

Karl Schäfer Memorial (Vienna Cup)

Nmsis said:
That's not exactly that.
He asked to skate for Monaco before the begining of the 2006-2007 season, before the Masters. To be denied by the FFSG.
Samuel was "injured" for the Masters (never knew if it was a protest or not) and didn't come.
The FFSG still wanted to review his programs before confirming his participation to the GP serie so they asked him to go to the Coupe de Nice to have his programs reviewed ans his participation to the GP serie validated.
He refused to go, saying he should have his GPs anyway.
The fed disagreed and withdrew him from the SA and the TEB.

Then he was 3rd at Nats but, as Alban wasn't at Nats but had qualified for the GP final, Alban had automatically won his place in the team for Euros.
The FFSG wanted to send Samuel to another international competition but he said he was injured again and didn't go (actually, that's probably because he was in the process of changing of federation ; he hadn't participated to an international competition for a year ; had he entered another one, he would have lose 2 more years after changing ; he lost only one by not entering, it could be the same thing for the previous Coupe de Nice).
At the begining of the 2007-2008 season, he asked to skate for Italy.
And the FFSG agreed since he was in the process of acquiring the italian nationality.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the additional infos!
 
jamie said:
Typical Kostner, winning with dismal skates. The Politiking that her coach does must be incredible!
Click to expand...
Well, if that's the case, Tomas Verner must be a very unhappy guy - looking at his results, it's clear Huth hasn't done the same for him.

Honestly, I doubt there's a conspiracy to let Kostner win competitions undeservedly. Like some of the other top skaters, Caro is at a point were she could skate nothing but laps around the rink and still get high PCS scores. And as others have noted here in the past, she and her coaching team seem to be smart about using CoP.

Nmsis, thanks for the additional info on Contesti. It seems it really was a soap opera!
 
Buttercup said:
Well, if that's the case, Tomas Verner must be a very unhappy guy - looking at his results, it's clear Huth hasn't done the same for him.
Click to expand...

I don't agree. Look at Tomas' component marks - so high, much higher then Oda's components. I know Oda's skating and in my opinion Tomas is not better in presentation. But once he is a European champion and judges pays it. Last two season Tomas didn't have many good competitions except Euros and NHK Trophy. He did bad at Nebelhorn Trophy 2007, TEB 2007, Czech Nationals 2007, he didn't skate well at Finlandia Trophy 2007 - but he was still among the best thanks to his components.This year he had bad skate both in Oberstdorf and Vienna but thanks to his components he finished fourth and third - he really has nothing to complain about.

Just small notice - Ottavio Cinquanta is President of the ISU - he is Italian.
 
Buttercup said:
Nmsis, thanks for the additional info on Contesti. It seems it really was a soap opera!
Click to expand...

It really is! :P

I also agree on everything about Kostner.
The long program is much more classical than last year's, but very beautiful indeed. Judges gonna like it a lot more than any other of her's! :clap:
 
sisinka said:
I don't agree. Look at Tomas' component marks - so high, much higher then Oda's components. I know Oda's skating and in my opinion Tomas is not better in presentation. But once he is a European champion and judges pays it. Last two season Tomas didn't have many good competitions except Euros and NHK Trophy. He did bad at Nebelhorn Trophy 2007, TEB 2007, Czech Nationals 2007, he didn't skate well at Finlandia Trophy 2007 - but he was still among the best thanks to his components.This year he had bad skate both in Oberstdorf and Vienna but thanks to his components he finished fourth and third - he really has nothing to complain about.
Click to expand...
Well, the relevant part of my previous post was supposed to be tongue in cheek. What I have noticed is that even if both skate relatively poorly, Caro gets on the podium (or even wins) while Tomas does not do as well. I guess this is mostly on account of the men's field being deeper than that of the ladies' (IMHO).
 
it just goes to show who they are cheating for. I just saw Carolina Kostners program on youtube. it is obvious they didn't downgrade her triples when she fell and didn't take enough off. Because if they did her PC scores wouldn't be so high. They also must have assumed because it was on paper she would have did a triple/triple whether she actually tried one or not.
If the judges downgraded her jumps the pc scores shouldn't have been in the 7's.

they are also holding her up and telling the other skaters no matter how bad she skates , she is going to get the scores.
also they field at Karl Schafer wasn't that impressive or good in the first place,
 
i just checked the judges detailed. Carolina Kostner had no jumps downgraded . The only thing they did was take the manadatory fall off -3. She was the only skater to get good goes 1 on all her jumps except her falls. NO downgrades.
Elena Gleboa had 1 downgrade on the triple/trple double and hardly and goes a few +1s, but mainly zeros.
i looked under Karl Schaefer Memorial -on front pages they had judges detail
 
fairly4 said:
it just goes to show who they are cheating for. I just saw Carolina Kostners program on youtube. it is obvious they didn't downgrade her triples when she fell and didn't take enough off. Because if they did her PC scores wouldn't be so high. They also must have assumed because it was on paper she would have did a triple/triple whether she actually tried one or not.
If the judges downgraded her jumps the pc scores shouldn't have been in the 7's.
Click to expand...
That was a confusing post. Since when are jumps downgraded because of falls? The penalty for a fall is a 1-point deduction, and of course it gets the -3 GOE. URs are downgraded, but that's a different subject. What exactly were the judges supposed to "take off", other than the -3 and the deduction, which as you've seen are in the protocols for both falls? Also, Kostner was credited with a triple flip-double toe, not a triple/triple, and she did have a jump downgraded: her attempt at a triple loop.

Certainly we've seen established skaters being held up by the PCS in the past and this appears to have been the case here: I agree that a skater who falls twice whould not be over 7 on performance and execution. But it's hardly news that the components tend to get similar marks instead of the judges docking skaters for, say, transitions but not skating skills. However, this is not Kostner's fault, and it's not something that hasn't happened before.
 
fairly4 said:
i just checked the judges detailed. Carolina Kostner had no jumps downgraded . The only thing they did was take the manadatory fall off -3. She was the only skater to get good goes 1 on all her jumps except her falls. NO downgrades.
Click to expand...

Are you sure you read the right protocols?
http://ksm.engelmann.co.at/2008/listen/KSM08_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf
Her 3L was downgraded. Also, I'm surprised that her 3F-2T didn't receive more negative GoEs. Some judges gave her 0 GoE for this combo - weird, since she stumbled out of 3F and put her and down.
The only jump pass that has received some positive GoEs was her 2A-2T combo (and 2A-2T-1L, but one judge gave her negative GoE for that).
She hasn't landed a single triple jump clean. Out of 4 attempts she put a hand down once, fell twice and underrotated one jump.
 
it is not confusing. All last year the US skaters who fell got the -3 deduction , plus the downgraded jump >.
Caroline Kostner on her two falls should have been downgraded > and her Goes should have been deducted accordingly. They wasn't.

Her score should have been in the high 80's 88-89 or 90 to 91 tops.
 
fairly4, that doesn't sound right. Are we referring to the same thing here? Unless people fall on an under-rotated jump, you'd get the regular base value, a -3 GOE and the one point deduction for the fall. That was the case here as well. I have yet to read/hear any suggestion that Kostner's problem is/was multiple URs. She had one under-rotated jump and it was scored accordingly - downgraded to a double, and with negative GOEs. She may not have desreved the high PCS she got, but there was no reason to downgrade her other jumps.
 
fairly4 said:
it is not confusing. All last year the US skaters who fell got the -3 deduction , plus the downgraded jump >.
Caroline Kostner on her two falls should have been downgraded > and her Goes should have been deducted accordingly. They wasn't.

Her score should have been in the high 80's 88-89 or 90 to 91 tops.
Click to expand...
What? :scratch:
Sometimes you do fall because you UR your jump. But not every fall is caused by an UR.
 
fairly4 said:
it is not confusing. All last year the US skaters who fell got the -3 deduction , plus the downgraded jump >.
Caroline Kostner on her two falls should have been downgraded > and her Goes should have been deducted accordingly. They wasn't.

Her score should have been in the high 80's 88-89 or 90 to 91 tops.
Click to expand...

This is simply not true. Last year the US skater who fell and under-rotated their jumps got the mandatory -3GOE off the downgraded jump. If any skater fell on a fully rotated jump then they simply had the -3GOE taken from the full base vaule of the jump. Maybe you can give examples of competitions where you think the US skaters were hit with a downgrade that you disagreed with?

Ant
 
i could probably go back last year into the detail list and tell you. But i won't right now.

I just going to let it drop., because it just shows the judging doing the same thing jover again. Calling some ur as okay and others as not.
That is not to say the Caroline Kostner didn't deserve to win even with the falls.Her personality shined through despite the shakiness of the program. I can see her winning and medaling with this program Provided she Skates Clean.

Because I am hard of hearing I don't have the music up/on when I watch on youtube, Why because if I can sense and get the feel of the music and what the skater is trying to say without without listening to the music. I know when the music is up in competition /shows , that the performance/choreography the impact is some much more noticeably in the competition/show.
 
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