Kwan Injured - Pulling out of Cambell's & Skate America... Life is NOT Fair

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I don't agree with your opening paragraph for one reason - if she wanted to skip the GP she would simply tell the world she was skipping the GP to save herself for the natioanls and Olys...sure there'd be a collective groan from most people but that's what she'd do. Alleging that someone is faking an injury is pretty mean spirited stuff and even if she doesn't skate in CoC isn't CoC a month before the December invitational? That's still a months' worth of healing time so i don't think that's a bad thing.

the rest of it though i agree with - what she needed this season was international feedback and exposure and with this injury she's stopped from doing that. Desperately scarbbling for good things though - TT will be out on the GP with er skaters andsee everyone else's programs so she'll know what needs to happen technically from a CoP perspective with Kwan's programs for them to be competitive. When she goes to tweak the progam she can impart her wisdom.

Ant

You have to realize that when I first read this news I had to go through several pages of comments.in this thread first and the two posters I mentioned albeit Non Fans of Kwan whose posts seemed to think that it is just an excuse to get out of the GPs. At the time since MK has always been mysterious, I let the idea of 'getting out of the GPs' as a possibility. I was in shock at the news. Another poster whose posts are all over this thread with tidbits of gloom and doom based soley on an admitted personal distaste for Michelle and with a certain glee incorporated into his opinions, one has to just let them ride for their insensitivities to an injured skater.

However, once caught up, I realized that she is also out of the Campbells, and that fact told me that the injury was real, and that she is hurting not only physically but emotionally also. I cancelled out all posts that intimate the injury is not real but a move to get out of the GPs. Michelle would never go against a contract.

I believe I mentioned all this in a subsequent thread, and I am still concerned, when she returns that she needs feedback from the international scene before Torino. Hopefully we will see this.

Joe

 

[antmanb]

Well, the matter is not quite that simple these days. Have you forgotten what happened to Plushenko last season as he did not compete in GP and chose to appear in shows instead? I don´t think that Kwan is able to skate in cheesefests and in the same time withdraw from GP competitions in Olympic season.

But even if the ISU choose to sanction her in some way the only thing they can do is stop her competing at worlds - they can't stop her going to nationals since that USFS and they can't stop her going to the Olympics since that's an IOC competition and the US has a right o send whoever its wants to the Olys without interference from the ISU.

Ant

 

[antmanb]

You have to realize that when I first read this news I had to go through several pages of comments.in this thread first and the two posters I mentioned albeit Non Fans of Kwan whose posts seemed to think that it is just an excuse to get out of the GPs. At the time since MK has always been mysterious, I let the idea of 'getting out of the GPs' as a possibility. I was in shock at the news. Another poster whose posts are all over this thread with tidbits of gloom and doom based soley on an admitted personal distaste for Michelle and with a certain glee incorporated into his opinions, one has to just let them ride for their insensitivities to an injured skater.

However, once caught up, I realized that she is also out of the Campbells, and that fact told me that the injury was real, and that she is hurting not only physically but emotionally also. I cancelled out all posts that intimate the injury is not real but a move to get out of the GPs. Michelle would never go against a contract.

I believe I mentioned all this in a subsequent thread, and I am still concerned, when she returns that she needs feedback from the international scene before Torino. Hopefully we will see this.

Joe

Sorry my remark about people making allegations that the injury was fake was aimed at the comments by the poster you mention and not to you!!!

Ant

 

[anniemg]

Why do you make it such a huge deal? She's injured, so what? All athletes get injured at some point. It's not like she's got the Olympics in 2 weeks. She'll be fine, COP and all.....

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Why do you make it such a huge deal? She's injured, so what? All athletes get injured at some point. It's not like she's got the Olympics in 2 weeks. She'll be fine, COP and all.....

Are you a skater? Any skater who is injured is more than a so what.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

- Someone else mentioned that the CoC competition is about 20 days from the time that she (MK) is expected to recover. I think she'll stay off the ice to be able to heal herself fully. But I think a month is a while to be off the ice not in real training mode. The question is not only will she compete at CoC, but can she really compete at CoC? Can she get back in the swing of things with just two weeks of prep? Will she be in good enough shape to compete there or will she choose to skip it to make sure she can get ready for the next comp (which I think is the December event)? And it also raises the question of how bad is this injury, really? The doctor said it was treatable so I don't think it's that bad.

- Someone at FSU said someone at MKF mentioned that Michelle's agent mentioned Four Continents. (My speculation is) she is now seriously considering other options to get more feedback out there. (If this is true) Sounds as if she really WAS going to do the GP after all! After hearing this, it really sunk in as to how much of a letdown this must be.

Re. Tarasova- that's a good point that I never considered. But I thought she had a relatively minimal role in the making of MK's new program. (Correct me if this is wrong).

 

[Doggygirl]

Thanks DG. I knew you would understand. Poor Abbey is so confused by all of the noise and activity. Plus everytime a new person comes in the house she brings them her ball thinking they are there for a round of Corgi soccer! If all goes well by the holidays I should have a fabulous new kitchen ready for me to make a fabulous mess in.

I know this is way OT, but isn't it wonderful when our beloved dogs are so HELPFUL with household projects of any kind??

DG

 

[soogar]

I don't agree with your opening paragraph for one reason - if she wanted to skip the GP she would simply tell the world she was skipping the GP to save herself for the natioanls and Olys...sure there'd be a collective groan from most people but that's what she'd do. Alleging that someone is faking an injury is pretty mean spirited stuff and even if she doesn't skate in CoC isn't CoC a month before the December invitational? That's still a months' worth of healing time so i don't think that's a bad thing.


Ant

She CAN'T just skip the GP this year. Cinquanta issued an edict that invited skaters had to compete in the GP. Nor can she just do invitationals like she has done in the past because the ISU doesn't want skaters doing invitationals at the expense of GP events (blame Yevgeny for that). Now a skater can only skip the GP in the event of injury.

 

[attyfan]

Well, the matter is not quite that simple these days. Have you forgotten what happened to Plushenko last season as he did not compete in GP and chose to appear in shows instead? I don´t think that Kwan is able to skate in cheesefests and in the same time withdraw from GP competitions in Olympic season.

The ISU might be looking at what did happen to Plushy -- since he had to withdraw from Worlds in Moscow, he is no longer seeded -- and no GP! If they want get top skaters in the GP, they need to ease up.

 

[R.D.]

If they want get top skaters in the GP, they need to ease up.

...and also provide some kind of incentive to want to compete in the GP. Kwan, Plushenko, and the gang have been able to get away with not doing the GP. If an incentive doesn't work then they're going to have to integrate it into the "system" somehow. (I think I've touched on this before.) The ISU should do more than just say that the skaters have to do it. That's the cheap way to do it. A more practical way IMO is to make the GP a part of the system (i.e. not optional) by integrating it with the other major events.

She CAN'T just skip the GP this year. Cinquanta issued an edict that invited skaters had to compete in the GP. Nor can she just do invitationals like she has done in the past because the ISU doesn't want skaters doing invitationals at the expense of GP events (blame Yevgeny for that). Now a skater can only skip the GP in the event of injury.

Yes, of course she can't just "skip" it. But this time she has a valid "excuse" for not doing it, or so we think. But an Olympic season just isn't the same without Kwan. Hope she can recover and get back into the swing of things.

 

[antmanb]

She CAN'T just skip the GP this year. Cinquanta issued an edict that invited skaters had to compete in the GP. Nor can she just do invitationals like she has done in the past because the ISU doesn't want skaters doing invitationals at the expense of GP events (blame Yevgeny for that). Now a skater can only skip the GP in the event of injury.

As i've already posted - what can the ISU actually do to a skater who misses the GP? By and the large the young skaters won't want to skip it so its only the seasoned veterans who might want to and since they (the seasoned veterans) are also likely to be the ones who want to retire this year its only worlds that they might be sacrificing by going against ISU proclamations. Plus if the national federation has any backbone and sticks by the skater they send to worlds its hard to see how Speedy could try and enforce a sanction like banning a skater from worlds...now the potential law suit for that would be interesting!

Ant

 

[attyfan]

...and also provide some kind of incentive to want to compete in the GP. Kwan, Plushenko, and the gang have been able to get away with not doing the GP. If an incentive doesn't work then they're going to have to integrate it into the "system" somehow. (I think I've touched on this before.) The ISU should do more than just say that the skaters have to do it. That's the cheap way to do it. A more practical way IMO is to make the GP a part of the system (i.e. not optional) by integrating it with the other major events. ... .

You miss my point. The GP invitations go to the top seeded skaters at Worlds. If the ISU works the skaters too hard, as they did with Plushy (who, up until last season, would often do 3 GP events and the GPF, as well as cheesefests), they won't be seeded anymore -- and so, not in the next season's GP.

 

[R.D.]

LA TImes article:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/olympics/la-sp-olycol7oct07,1,5436313.story

(It's the LA Times so you need to register.)

The Manhattan Beach resident, a five-time world champion and nine-time U.S. champion, on Thursday withdrew from Saturday's Campbell Classic at St. Paul, Minn., and the Grand Prix-opening Skate America event, Oct. 20-23 at Atlantic City, N.J. Her agent, Shep Goldberg, said there was an outside chance she might compete at the Cup of China in Beijing, Nov. 2-6.

"This is not career-threatening or career-ending," he said in a telephone interview. "She just needs time to heal…. She already started therapy and there'll be a gradual building back up and exercises so it doesn't become chronic."

So now it's been reduced to an "outside chance" that she will go to CoC. I say if she is healthy enough, GO. You need all the experience under Cop that you can get.

There's a little section on Cohen as well.

 

[R.D.]

You miss my point. The GP invitations go to the top seeded skaters at Worlds. If the ISU works the skaters too hard, as they did with Plushy (who, up until last season, would often do 3 GP events and the GPF, as well as cheesefests), they won't be seeded anymore -- and so, not in the next season's GP.

I agree with that, but then herein lies the dilemma. You work the skaters too hard, they become unseeded. You don't work them enough (i.e. don't mandate/encourage the GP), and some of them will skip the series or find a way around it. And if the star skaters are out, they start losing money on the series. So what's middle ground? Do we just drop it altogether? Or do we restructure it? Skating is in a bad enough position as it is.

 

[Bijoux]

One thing with a soft tissue injury

only she knows for sure.... but I'll bet she's injured, as Skate America is usually a lovefest she can count on....no doubt she is upping her jumps and this is the cause. Either that or she may decide risking Torino with an off podium finish requires a gradual withdrawal. Possible, but doesn't sound like the girl who loves competing more than even winning at this stage of her career.

 

[soogar]

As i've already posted - what can the ISU actually do to a skater who misses the GP? By and the large the young skaters won't want to skip it so its only the seasoned veterans who might want to and since they (the seasoned veterans) are also likely to be the ones who want to retire this year its only worlds that they might be sacrificing by going against ISU proclamations. Plus if the national federation has any backbone and sticks by the skater they send to worlds its hard to see how Speedy could try and enforce a sanction like banning a skater from worlds...now the potential law suit for that would be interesting!

Ant

Well the ISU determines the standards that allow a competitor to compete in the Olympics. As of now, no, the ISU can't do anything because the rules mandate that the federation determines whether a skater is eligible or not. However next year the ISU can pass rules saying that only it can sanction competitions and if skaters do not do the GP, no cheesefests will be sanctioned thus skaters participating in them will be ineligible to compete in Worlds and the Olympics.

There can be a lawsuit, but no court will rule for the skater verses the governing body of the sport. There is no gross impropriety involved in requiring a skater to compete in a maximum of 3 GP events if invited (2 regular GP and possibly the GP final).

As for Kwan competing in 4Cs, why bother? She's going to get COP feedback just before the Olympics and then change her program to make it more difficult? She was having problems with muscle memory at worlds trying to skate a program she had been tweaking all season long. She most likely will compete at COC because at least she'll have time to adjust to any changes she'll make to the program.

 

[attyfan]

Well the ISU determines the standards that allow a competitor to compete in the Olympics. As of now, no, the ISU can't do anything because the rules mandate that the federation determines whether a skater is eligible or not. However next year the ISU can pass rules saying that only it can sanction competitions and if skaters do not do the GP, no cheesefests will be sanctioned thus skaters participating in them will be ineligible to compete in Worlds and the Olympics.

There can be a lawsuit, but no court will rule for the skater verses the governing body of the sport. ... .

There would not be a lawsuit if the ISU passed the rules for next year. However, if the ISU tried to ban someone from Tornio, under the rules as they currently exist, it would be an entirely different problem.

 

[soogar]

There would not be a lawsuit if the ISU passed the rules for next year. However, if the ISU tried to ban someone from Tornio, under the rules as they currently exist, it would be an entirely different problem.

It would be a problem, but governing bodies of sport have huge discretion in rulemaking and implementation. The right to compete in the Olympics is determined by the ISU. If the ISU decides to change the rule and a majority of the feds vote for it, there isn't a whole lot that can be done.

 

[millie]

I agree with that, but then herein lies the dilemma. You work the skaters too hard, they become unseeded. You don't work them enough (i.e. don't mandate/encourage the GP), and some of them will skip the series or find a way around it. And if the star skaters are out, they start losing money on the series. So what's middle ground? Do we just drop it altogether? Or do we restructure it? Skating is in a bad enough position as it is.

Figure skating goes as far back as 1863 with Jackson Haines, then Sonja Henie and so on. Long after they reitred, figure skating still continued and it will long after Michelle stops skating or retires (that goes for any other skaters that are presently skating). Because Michelle has been injured, it's not the be all and end all of figure skating. The sport of figure skating will continue and fans will pay the money to go see other skaters. Why restruct figure skating now? Michelle is not the first skater to be injured and not the last (Tara for instance, who was ctitized after she won the OGM and retired because of hip injuries.)

On another note, I hope Michelle has a speedy recovery and gets to faceoff with the other skaters this season.

 

[antmanb]

It would be a problem, but governing bodies of sport have huge discretion in rulemaking and implementation. The right to compete in the Olympics is determined by the ISU. If the ISU decides to change the rule and a majority of the feds vote for it, there isn't a whole lot that can be done.

Its a pretty moot point since we're actually talking Michelle - the point was what can the ISU do to a skater who skips the GP this year. Opening it up as a general question then absolutely the ISU can change any rule it wants for forthcoming seasons i just don't really see it as a big issue after this year.

Until Todd decided to have two years off after Nagano skaters have always wanted to get as much GP exposure as possible. It was only after Kwan openly did the same thing that Speedy got p*ssed off because the biggest money skater was withdrawing from events and given the lack of money coming from ABC he had to do something about it. Once this set of "older" skaters retire we're back to the everyone wants to compete mentality, unless of course one of the "new "Veterans - and by that i mean one of the older more experienced skaters who doesn't retire after this season (e.g. if Cohen decides to stick it out for another couple of seasons, whcih she might do if she doesn't get gold at either the Olys or Worlds this season) who might be looking for a scaled back competitive season, i don't see this being a big issue.

Ant