Ladies Free Skate
- Thread starter SailorGalaxia518
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- Joined
- Jul 27, 2003
Factoring past scores is as useful as guessing who is going to skate well in Turin. Whatever happened in the past is just that: the past. Whoever will be hot this year will be hot. Everything else is just supposition.
Doggygirl said:
By "hype" I mean all the fan craze. And saying Czisny did well at SA and SC is what I would call a "biased fact"- it's sort of true but still depends on one's perception. What exactly does "doing well" mean? (get a certain score? win all the time?). It's vague. It can be argued. But saying that Czisny placed 2nd at SA and won Skate Canada, now THOSE are facts, and you can't debate those.
(Sorry for my nitpicking, but...you know, things like that...)
MM- those numbers are interesting. What jumps out at me most is Kwan's 175 score. She did a good SP but had a lackluster FS. That's still a Top 3 score she got for that. Imagine if she did well- I wouldn't count her out yet. Nevermind her "lack of prepardness" for the Cop. Doesn't mean she'd necessarily win over a well-prepared skater, though, if that skater did well...
So, OK, whatever. But you never know what would have happened if Alissa was in the mix at worlds, having to skate a QR. Another great opportunity to screw up...
I still don't consider Alissa to be in the elite, even if she has supposedly now beaten two "elite members". A top six placement at Worlds, or Olys if she qualifies, would do that for me. That ice is slippery, too- I don't think we've seen the last of Kostner OR Suguri. If anything, that's motivation for them to go out there and attack next time (or at least that's what logic would say)...
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Red Dog said:
So, is it a "Biased Hype True Fact" when a skater does well in two competitions on a subjective basis, AND win first and second place at 2 of 6 of the most prominent international events outside of World's or Oly's?
Just trying to understand your nitpickin' point.
Still waiting to hear your comments on how you think Alissa (or any skater for that matter) performs on ice relative to competition in a specific way. As an example, how did you think Alissa's spins (as an example) compared to Sokolova's at Skate America, and why? (or pick jumps, spirals, footwork, different skaters than the ones I mentioned, etc.)
DG
Doggygirl said:
Leave the word "hype" out of it- that's a totally different point. I was discounting fan hype, not that Alissa did well in her events.
Otherwise- yes, whenever one uses words like "well", "good", "bad", one automatically introduces perception into their point. Think about it, if I say someone did well on something, might not someone else disagree with me? OTOH, you can't disagree with facts.
But JUST saying that a skater is "in X place" or "won" IS a fact, if it's true that is.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Let's not get GS the reputation of the board that JINXED Alissa... quit forcing the gold in her hands! 
*goes off into a corner and hides*
*goes off into a corner and hides*
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Red Dog said:
OK, Maybe I'm a little dense, so let me ask my two questions again.
1) What is your nitpickin' point?
2) Do you have any comment, performance wise with an opinion how you think Alissa skates relative to the competition she's been up against so far this season. (see previous examples - her spins compared to Sokolova's, or whatever, from your opinion)
DG
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Tonichelle said:Let's not get GS the reputation of the board that JINXED Alissa... quit forcing the gold in her hands!
*goes off into a corner and hides*
Oh Geez. You caught me. Yep, that was me hiding in the laundry shute, trying to sneak the gold medal into "her" coat pocket while "she" was secretly taking the service elevator.
Please stop using her actual name - somebody might figure this conspiracy out!!DG
Doggygirl said:
A fact (this is not dictionary term, this is my understanding of what it is) is a statement that cannot be argued or debated; it happened, it's set in stone.
If you tell me that Czisny did well in her two events, and that's a fact, I can tear you apart and say, well, Czisny is still 20 points behind Slutskaya, she wasn't THAT great, you know" or "She didn't win Skate America, therefore she didn't do THAT well". In other words, I can try to counter or disprove your statement. But if you tell me that Czisny placed 2nd at Skate America, and won Skate Canada, what can I do about that? Maybe I can make the case to say she didn't DESERVE 1st or 2nd place, but I can't argue THAT she placed the way she did- get it now?
ETA: to add to my previous point, since 1st and 2nd place are considered "doing well" by the vast majority of people, that's why I referred to it as a "biased fact"- it has SOME element of truth (since it's based on fact), but not EVERYBODY may agree with it- see now?
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For my money, Rochette had the skate of the night - not that I dispute the results, but had I been a judge, I would have marginally given the edge in the free skate to her over Czisny. Just my opinion, of course. I felt that even though Rochette had the obvious pop on her flip, and didn't have as strong spins, I felt her presentation of the program was far more mature and made up the difference. That's not to say that Czisny didn't have a wonderful skate, obviously she did. But to me, she appeared to be skating while her music was going on in the background. As with her short program, I thought this was the obvious flaw. She does not connect with her music, and so ends up looking rather juniorish, as if she is going through a series of moves because a choreographer told her to.
Poor Suguri, and Kostner. Though I have to say, I LOVE Kostner's program. A huge step forward for her artistically, and I'd love to see it when she's on her form. Nakano is another skater who can sure jump, jump, jump but needs to work on her presentation skills. All in all, I thought the competition was quite enjoyable to watch.
Poor Suguri, and Kostner. Though I have to say, I LOVE Kostner's program. A huge step forward for her artistically, and I'd love to see it when she's on her form. Nakano is another skater who can sure jump, jump, jump but needs to work on her presentation skills. All in all, I thought the competition was quite enjoyable to watch.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2005
I saw her performance and i think she is a top skater!!!
I don't feel she's juniorish!!
I think she is one of the skaters that thrives in COP
She has one of the best spins and spirals, the wonderful personality, rapport and musicality that is essential in figure skating
I think she's a dark horse for the Olympics, a medal probable (depending on her performance!!!)
Her spins were stunning
She belongs in the tier 1 spins and spirals along with Irina, Lucindah ruh and Sasha!!!
I wish her the best
My friend who was there said she may even win the US Title.....hmmmmmm, isaid that is too far to happen.......she said nothing is impossible in COP!!! She has better edges than Cohen, she's healthier than Kwan and Cohen and she has accdg to my friend....the best spiral and spins in the biz!!!
So goodluck to her
The ice princess diaries look alike ALISSA CZISNY
She's very pretty!!!
I don't feel she's juniorish!!
I think she is one of the skaters that thrives in COP
She has one of the best spins and spirals, the wonderful personality, rapport and musicality that is essential in figure skating
I think she's a dark horse for the Olympics, a medal probable (depending on her performance!!!)
Her spins were stunning
She belongs in the tier 1 spins and spirals along with Irina, Lucindah ruh and Sasha!!!
I wish her the best
My friend who was there said she may even win the US Title.....hmmmmmm, isaid that is too far to happen.......she said nothing is impossible in COP!!! She has better edges than Cohen, she's healthier than Kwan and Cohen and she has accdg to my friend....the best spiral and spins in the biz!!!
So goodluck to her
The ice princess diaries look alike ALISSA CZISNY
She's very pretty!!!
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2003
It is too early to crown Alissa with the US nationals title, an Olympic medal, or the Ice princess title. She has wonderful spins and flexibility but she is a work in progress, IMO. Her maturity level (don't ask me to define it) is not the same as Sasha's or Michelle's (just talking of US ladies). I don't think she looks juniorish, but she still needs more work. Of course Sarah won the OGM without reaching a certain maturity level so it is not impossible.
I do feel that Alissa has not been tested in a pressure situation. She was not expected to win at SA or SC, particularly with a history of disastrous showings in the past. If she is viewed as a contender (and now she will be, at USN for a spot on the Olympic team), how will she handle the pressure? We don't know yet. Champions need mental toughness, in addition to talent and hard work. We don't know yet if Alissa is mentally tough. I like the fact that the US selects its Olympic team based on the performance at nationals. It is a good test of how a skater handles pressure.
I am not trying to put Alissa down. In fact I am happy that the absence of Michelle and Sasha has brought forth her talents. If you see her in the same competition with the other top skaters, I am not sure that she will do as well as she did at SA and SC. At SA her competition was Elena Sokolova, who I consider a second tier skater. At SC her main competition Carolina and Fumie both bombed. Rochette has a higher maturity level than Alissa at this point, and perhaps in a 6.0 setting Rochette would have placed higher. Alissa is definitely one reaping the benefits of the COP and there is nothing wrong with it. I just don't want to crown her too soon. Her time will come.
Vash
I do feel that Alissa has not been tested in a pressure situation. She was not expected to win at SA or SC, particularly with a history of disastrous showings in the past. If she is viewed as a contender (and now she will be, at USN for a spot on the Olympic team), how will she handle the pressure? We don't know yet. Champions need mental toughness, in addition to talent and hard work. We don't know yet if Alissa is mentally tough. I like the fact that the US selects its Olympic team based on the performance at nationals. It is a good test of how a skater handles pressure.
I am not trying to put Alissa down. In fact I am happy that the absence of Michelle and Sasha has brought forth her talents. If you see her in the same competition with the other top skaters, I am not sure that she will do as well as she did at SA and SC. At SA her competition was Elena Sokolova, who I consider a second tier skater. At SC her main competition Carolina and Fumie both bombed. Rochette has a higher maturity level than Alissa at this point, and perhaps in a 6.0 setting Rochette would have placed higher. Alissa is definitely one reaping the benefits of the COP and there is nothing wrong with it. I just don't want to crown her too soon. Her time will come.
Vash
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
According to the write-up on the USFS site this morning, Yukari Nakano did a fully rotated triple Axel (fought for the landing, though). 
http://www.usfsa.org/event_story.asp?id=31778
http://www.usfsa.org/event_story.asp?id=31778
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- Joined
- Dec 18, 2003
Mathman said:According to the write-up on the USFS site this morning, Yukari Nakano did a fully rotated triple Axel (fought for the landing, though).
Wow!! Good for her! I really liked watching her skate - I especially liked her SP with the Cher unitard.
(I'm so shallow!) I would be interested in hearing from one of our more technical experts on how that leg wrap on her jumps might affect (or not) her ability to "get around" easily on tripples, and especially 3A. Or is the leg wrap thing not an issue in terms of ability to jump well, but just more of a "visual appeal" thing?DG
I really like Alissa and think she will be a force to reckon with in the near future. I do think that people should not be so quick to crown her National Champion yet. Let's see how see does against the "big guns" first. According to the USFSA article, she landed only four fully rotated triples (five triples with one downgraded to a double), and this was her personal best. She obviously is building her confidence and gaining wonderful experience. Hopefully she can keep the momentum going and not let the media's pronouncement of her being the newest sensation get to her.
I must REALLY be the dense one, but I seriously don't get how being excited about someone's improvement and winning a major competition is the SAME thing as crowning them the next Olympic Gold medalist OR the next major record holder like, say, 9 time US champion. I mean can't we be excited about Alissa's achievements thus far this season and talk about her skating relative to the fields she was in (SC, SA) without there being the assumption that we think she is BETTER than OR HAS ALREADY beaten Slutskaya, Cohen and Kwan and whoever else should be in the top group?
For anyone that has the technical ability, mathematical prowess, and time, it would, for example, be very interesting to compare Cizny's and Rochette's FS and scores...get a little debate going on the competition (in the men's thread we could evaluate Buttle's scores...did he 'really deserve' second place overall??).
ETA...sorry, meant to say it would be IMHO very interesting to...
For anyone that has the technical ability, mathematical prowess, and time, it would, for example, be very interesting to compare Cizny's and Rochette's FS and scores...get a little debate going on the competition (in the men's thread we could evaluate Buttle's scores...did he 'really deserve' second place overall??).
ETA...sorry, meant to say it would be IMHO very interesting to...
I was there last night. Alyssa is a wonderful skater. Her spiral sequence is the best in the world as well as her spins. Her jumps are okay. I do not see a wrap as some have been saying. I do find , however that she doesn't take control of the ice ...this is compared to Kwan etc.Her stroking is better than Cohen and Slutskya!!! So if you look at her from all aspects she has a great shot at the Olympic podium! Her levels she will get from her spiral sequence and spins will more then make up for her slghtly lower skating skills.
On another note I felt she was overmarked in the PCS compared with Joannie Rochette. A spiral sequence is credited in the TES not PCS. There was no comparison between her and Joannie on edge quality, transitions, interpretation.Joannie is way above.
Nevertheless Alyssa is a fine skater and one to be reckoned with.
On another note I felt she was overmarked in the PCS compared with Joannie Rochette. A spiral sequence is credited in the TES not PCS. There was no comparison between her and Joannie on edge quality, transitions, interpretation.Joannie is way above.
Nevertheless Alyssa is a fine skater and one to be reckoned with.
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