Ladies - Long Program

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Miki maybe boring for some, but as I said before she is competitive. Not surprised at her win.

I haven't seen this yet, but has Mao got more than the one big trick?

Mirai is a perfect example of trusting the strongest world's team to the US Nats.

 

[Olympia]

How amazing for Mirai! I'm so glad that one of our ladies won a medal and especially glad that it was Mirai. I'm thrilled for Mao and can't wait to see her program. I'm not one of Miki's biggest fans, but you have to admire her for her perseverance and her hard work. She's had an impressively long podium-quality career by anyone's standards, and she's only getting better.

 

[SXTN]

mao's transitions in the program are awesome. and even with the 2 underrotations she got huge scores for the elements. so add the 3-3 next time!!!

such a shame mirai is not going to worlds

 

[ayayukiituka]

Congrats the medalists and Rachel!! I was almost in tears watching Mirai and Mao's fights. Now I'm worrying is Miki keeps this shape until Worlds.As far as I know,a world champion has at least a bomb in a season,but Miki has skated without major mistakes in LPs...

 

[pokky_oc]

Does anyone know why very few ladies are doing triple-triple combo this year? I am just curious.

Mao planned to put 3F+3Lo in the Free skate... I don't know why she avoided it though She'll probably do one at the Worlds

http://www.nikkansports.com/sports/news/p-sp-tp0-20110218-738306.html

Translation:

Taipei[Taiwan] Mao is planning a jump she has not attempted for over two years. Mao Asada, who is participating at the 2011 Four Continents Championships in Taiwan, practiced for the first time in the main rink. She attempted The combination she had not attempted this season, the triple flip triple loop combination, and landed it twice. '' If the practice goes well, I might attempt it! ''

Since the 2009 World Championships in Los Angeles, Mao Asada has not landed a triple triple combination.

I guess translation's hard... I just translated the bit about 3-3 combination...

 

[dlgpffps]

The scores usually go up toward the end of the season. If you look at PCS range, it's about in the normal range.

If you're thinking of the Olympic season and the season right before the Olympics, when hype and excitement start to build, maybe, but any other season, the inflation does not occur until the big competition, Worlds itself, not 4CC. That skaters also skate better toward the end of the season because their programs grow on them, they've worked out the glitches and skated out the jitters also helps. That, however, would affect PCS, not TES.

I think most people complaining about overinflation are focusing on the over-generous TES. That Mao got 70+ TES with an edge call on her Lz, two URs and no 3-3s and that Miki hit 73 TES with neither a 3A or 3-3 is surprising because up till now, the biggest TES scores were the following:

1. Yu-na Kim '10 Olympics 78.50: 3Lz-3T, 6 triples, explosive jumps
2. Mao Asada '07 GPF 73.35: 3A, two 3-3s (including the highest scoring triple combination, a 3F-3Lo+GOE)
3. Yu-na Kim '07 COR 72.90: 3F-3T, seven triples

Take out the spiral, Miki almost beat out Yu-na at the Olympics and won Mao's monstrous two 3-3, 3A program (possibly the most technically ambitious program, layout-wise). Mao also beat herself, although this is definitely not her best performance. I think cries of overscoring are valid. Miki's program is now the second highest scoring LP in CoP history, beating out your favorite Mao 2007 Worlds LP and Yu-na's clean Miss Saigon.

The tech calls were quite generous as well, since I would've URed a few jumps and DGed some of the jumps that were URed but who cares. If this kind of judging continues into March, my favorite will hit 155+ even without the SpSq if she goes clean.

 

[miki88]

Take out the spiral, Miki almost beat out Yu-na at the Olympics and won Mao's monstrous two 3-3, 3A program (possibly the most technically ambitious program, layout-wise). Mao also beat herself, although this is definitely not her best performance. I think cries of overscoring are valid. Miki's program is now the second highest scoring LP in CoP history, beating out your favorite Mao 2007 Worlds LP and Yu-na's clean Miss Saigon.

The tech calls were quite generous as well, since I would've URed a few jumps and DGed some of the jumps that were URed but who cares. If this kind of judging continues into March, my favorite will hit 155+ even without the SpSq if she goes clean.

Lol. Why are you comparing scores from 07-08 season to now? That's one season where the judges were esp strict with GOE and PCS. If you're going to compare across seasons, then your favorite has also beaten herself several times, although her more recent performances aren't all necessarily better than those she did a few seasons ago.

 

[Okami]

Miki hit 73 TES with neither a 3A or 3-3 is surprising because up till now, the biggest TES scores were the following:

1. Yu-na Kim '10 Olympics 78.50: 3Lz-3T, 6 triples, explosive jumps
2. Mao Asada '07 GPF 73.35: 3A, two 3-3s (including the highest scoring triple combination, a 3F-3Lo+GOE)
3. Yu-na Kim '07 COR 72.90: 3F-3T, seven triples

Take out the spiral, Miki almost beat out Yu-na at the Olympics and won Mao's monstrous two 3-3, 3A program (possibly the most technically ambitious program, layout-wise).

Mao's layout from 07 GPF was very impressive, but she received negative GoEs for 3A, 3F-3T and 3Lz, and her spins weren't as good back then. The base values ended up being pretty close, because:

- the base value and the way the GoE is factored has changed. In 2007, Mao got 6.70 for her 3A, now - 9.79. Also, the base value of 3L is now a bit higher.
- this year Mao got the '<' call on 3T and 2L, but because of the rule change this wasn't as costly an error as it would have been last season.
- this year Mao had more transitions in her program, which bumped up the GoE of the landed jumps and the PCS.

All in all it's difficult to compare the scores from previous season to those from this one, because the base value of some jumps and the way the GoE is factored has changed a lot. Right now CoP encourages doing 3As and having a full set of triples, and this is exactly what Mao is attempting to do, even if a couple of triples weren't perfect yet.

As for Miki - although she technically didn't do a 3-3, 2A-3T helped her to achieve what a 3-3 would serve to do - to land 6 triples (repeating 3Lz and 3T) and 2 2As. Her jump layout is quite similar to YuNa's - the difference is YuNa could attempt one additional 2A back then (now the skaters can do only 2 2As in the LP).
Miki's jump layout is really CoP-efficient, though - she gets a nice bonus for doing 5 jumps passes in the second half and doing 2Ls instead of 2Ts. Plus her jumps are really big, she does nice steps into some of them (esp. 3L) and makes an effort to hold the landing.
The only problem is, she probably can't score more than she did in this competition unless she does 3Lz-3L instead of 3Lz-2L and 3F instead of 3L, while Mao can score more by improving 2A-3T, 3S and 3-2-2 (it might be too soon to completely fix the Lutz before Worlds) and YuNa can bring 3L back.

 

[lilshorty]

Wow... These scores are I have no questions about Miki's first place (her scores were a bit too high though), but as for Mao and Mirai... Come on, almost every jump looked UR, how did they get full credit for them and +GOE? They both were overscored. I feel that technical callers at Euros were much stricter in every discipline, wonder how it will be at Worlds.

Yuna will have no problems winning Worlds this time for sure. If she will not fall 3-4 times, it's hers for taking.

I'm not gonna lie. That's what I thought too...but it is what it is.

 

[Mirunna]

I'm not gonna lie. That's what I thought too...but it is what it is.

What jumps, exactly, did Mao that were UR and weren't called as such? (I haven't seen Mirai's program, so I can not comment). I thought the 3A was fully rotatated(and so did most judges), her flips were fine, her 3L was also fine. She had problems with her 3S(which recieved negative GOE, one judge gave it -3), her second 2L from the 3-2-2 combination, which was called as UR, and with the 3T from 2A-3T(which, despire the UR, had an ok landing, and since the judges can't see if the jump was called UR or not, some thought it was, giving -1, some didn't, giving it +1.) Where is the problem?

 

[ibauer]

I think the final placements were right, so I'm not going to quibble about the scores.

 

[burntBREAD]

What jumps, exactly, did Mao that were UR and weren't called as such? (I haven't seen Mirai's program, so I can not comment). I thought the 3A was fully rotatated(and so did most judges), her flips were fine, her 3L was also fine. She had problems with her 3S(which recieved negative GOE, one judge gave it -3), her second 2L from the 3-2-2 combination, which was called as UR, and with the 3T from 2A-3T(which, despire the UR, had an ok landing, and since the judges can't see if the jump was called UR or not, some thought it was, giving -1, some didn't, giving it +1.) Where is the problem?

The judges can see now whether jumps are UR/DG (part of new rules this year).

I thought Mao's URs were correct, although the 3S was also questionable, the rest was fine. Mirai's jumps all looked good to me...except maybe the 3T at the end of the 2A-3T

 

[euroskate]

Just watched Mao´s skate and was totally impressed with the interpretation of the music. She was skating so soft with lot´s of transitions. just wow. I think 7,5 as average is just so low! I mean how much better can you skate to this music? The marks should be in the nines.

 

[cooper]

Oh come on! The girls did a fantastic job today. I don't find the scores inflated. Both Miki and Mao got credit for 6 triples(the number of jumps Yuna did at the Olys and got 150). Everyone predicts a catwalk for Kim, but remember last year she had 2 bad LP and a mediocre one: the disaster at SA, the GPF(she landed 4 jumps) and the less than stellar 2010 worlds overscored Lp. Mao and Miki today proved they are in top form heading to worlds. Yuna is a big question mark. Consistency isn't her thing either(she had 2 clean competitions in her senior career). Plus, with the new rules, she will have to downgrade her technical content or add a 3L(she can't do 3 2A)

Maybe. BUT judging how everyone is doing this season, you can STILL win without a strong jump layout.

 

[lilshorty]

What jumps, exactly, did Mao that were UR and weren't called as such? (I haven't seen Mirai's program, so I can not comment). I thought the 3A was fully rotatated(and so did most judges), her flips were fine, her 3L was also fine. She had problems with her 3S(which recieved negative GOE, one judge gave it -3), her second 2L from the 3-2-2 combination, which was called as UR, and with the 3T from 2A-3T(which, despire the UR, had an ok landing, and since the judges can't see if the jump was called UR or not, some thought it was, giving -1, some didn't, giving it +1.) Where is the problem?

The problem is, while I feel that the placements are correct, I feel that the judges were too generous in the scoring. Some of Mao's and Mirai's jumps were okay, but did they really all deserve positive GoE? But like I said, it is what it is. The way in which the judges choose to score is not going to change and neither is my opinion.

 

[Mirunna]

The problem is, while I feel that the placements are correct, I feel that the judges were too generous in the scoring. Some of Mao's and Mirai's jumps were okay, but did they really all deserve positive GoE? The first 3A was huge, but the second did look UR to me. But like I said, it is what it is. The way in which the judges choose to score is not going to change and neither is my opinion.

Well, like I've said, I didn't watch Mirai's program so I can't really tell if she did or not deserve the GOE she got. Some of Mao's jumps were good and she recieved pozitive GOE, some not, and she recieved negative ones. And she didn't try a second 3A, it was just a 2A-3T< Yes, you may be right, the scores were a bit generous, but so they were for everybody and as long as the podium is correct we don't have any reason to complain.

Oh, and I didn't knew the judges can see if the jump is UR/DG. Thanks for that info, good to know

 

[dlgpffps]

Lol. Why are you comparing scores from 07-08 season to now? That's one season where the judges were esp strict with GOE and PCS. If you're going to compare across seasons, then your favorite has also beaten herself several times, although her more recent performances aren't all necessarily better than those she did a few seasons ago.

OK this is super frustrating... I typed up a lengthy response, but lost it. First, I'm confused by your bitter response, since I meant no harm in suggesting the scores here were inflated. Perhaps the reference to Yu-na at the end ticked you off, but I seriously meant that as humor (hence the smiley-face) but I guess it ain't funny. Why can't I compare 07-08 scores with this season's? They are two of the highest scoring CoP programs.

I looked at the top five LP protocols, wasted loads of time calculating and counting and found out that 40% of the individual GOE scores were +2.0 or +3.0. One judge gave Miki all +2.0s and +3.0s for every element except her 3T. Six out of nine judges gave her +2.0 or above for every single element. Miki has no precedent of such monstrous GOE, so one can't help but question inflation. I'm starting to wonder if judges are starting to compensate for the new factoring of GOE by easily hitting those +2.0s and +3.0s which were once reserved for Yu-na's jumps, Mirai's spins and Mao's spirals (the tippy-tops of each category) and got carried away in Taipei, hence the score inflation which made Miki's no 3A, no 3-3 LP the second highest scoring LP in CoP history.

Seriously, Miki delivered the same performance at COR, COC and GPF, but got 116, 120 and 122. Here, she got 134. That's a huge jump. Inflation? Perhaps.

 

[dlgpffps]

And no, I'm not a Mao, Miki hater here to argue to death that their scores were undeserved. I don't give a big hoot about scores as long as the placements are right (which I believe were. Loved the podium). Just found it annoying that I couldn't even question inflation Seriously, I'm a huge Yu-na fan, but believe her 2009 Worlds, 2010 Olympic and 2010 Worlds scores were inflated. So what? All that matters is that she won gold, gold and silver, leaving behind some memorable performances that I've rewatched many times.

 

[Lucky Star]

The judges can see now whether jumps are UR/DG (part of new rules this year).

I thought Mao's URs were correct, although the 3S was also questionable, the rest was fine. Mirai's jumps all looked good to me...except maybe the 3T at the end of the 2A-3T

Mirai: 3Lz in combination, 3T in combination 3-2-2, 3Lo were underrotated. Other jumps were borderline.
Mao: both 3F, 3Lo and 3S looked at least questionable

 

[dlgpffps]

All in all it's difficult to compare the scores from previous season to those from this one, because the base value of some jumps and the way the GoE is factored has changed a lot. Right now CoP encourages doing 3As and having a full set of triples, and this is exactly what Mao is attempting to do, even if a couple of triples weren't perfect yet.

Thanks for the reply. You made some very insightful points Forgot Mao's program was dinged here and there. Just remembered it as one of the most technically awesome programs ever.