Ladies Short Program

[R.D.]

In fact, the continuous criticism of Rachael tends to give rise to "the underdog effect" in her favor. The "underdog effect" occurs when someone is so continuously criticized that it seems like severe piling on, if not bashing.

That causes people who get tired of the piling on to say a nice thing every once in a while about the skater, just for variety, even though she/he is not their favorite. And that emboldens people for whom he/she is a favorite to have the guts to brave public criticism for their "bad taste" and to post to that effect.

If this escalates, other people actually become fond of the underdog, and fond of their championing of the underdog, and start searching for positive things to like about the underdog. Some will even become uberfans of the underdog.

I suspect this is not your intention, but it is often how things work.

Someone gets it!

But it's not just Flatt; you can put any other skater's name and the statement would still be valid. I'd even argue that it works in reverse, too: those who continually wax poetic about a particular skater. People who are annoyed are going to begin to find faults in said skater and point them out...and then for some, it can get extreme.

One thing though: I do have to disagree with the "uberfan" part- for example, I don't know of anyone who became a staunch Cohenhead or Slutskaya fanatic due to the actions of Kwaniacs. However, I do think that it enables those who are ALREADY uberfans of the rival skater to take their uberfandom to a whole new level.

 

[Layfan]

^ Cohenhead ....

 

[Blades of Passion]

:thumbsup:

Hint: grow up, BoP.

LOL.

You have very actively "rooted against" every single female American skater, with exception to Rachael Flatt. I think I speak for everyone when I say you have no room at all to be making some kind of declaration about how we should all try to be "nicer" towards every skater, regardless of how we feel about their skating.

I don't believe I have ever specifically rooted against Rachael Flatt in the first place. I would certainly wish for competition results to turn out such that the best skaters/programs rise to the top, though. Which would automatically mean, yes, I hope she doesn't place that well when up against a much more talented field. But let's be honest and cut through the crap - if you aren't rooting for someone, then you basically ARE intrinsically rooting against them (given that there are other people you want to do well). If you hope that skaters A, B, and C make the podium, it means you hope that skaters D, E, and F DON'T make the podium.

Looking at it in any other way is just superficial posing. We all want the skaters who we feel are the best to skate their best and place the highest as a result. My statement earlier was that it's better to root against someone based upon their skating rather than what country they are from. I still stand by that. Not preferring someone because of their skating speaks to the actual quality of sport/art/performance that we want to see. Not preferring someone because of Nationality is mainly just ignorant.

 

[Mathman]

^ Cohenhead ....

The second greatest fan name in skating, after the Maosketeers.

 

[R.D.]

the Maosketeers.

haven't heard of that one before...heh, who came up with that one?

 

[Mathman]

But let's be honest and cut through the crap - if you aren't rooting for someone, then you basically ARE intrinsically rooting against them (given that there are other people you want to do well). If you hope that skaters A, B, and C make the podium, it means you hope that skaters D, E, and F DON'T make the podium.

I think "rooting against" is unfortunate language. As Seniorita remarked when she tired to translate it into Greek, the concept of "cheering against" almost seems a contradiction in terms. It seems like it could only mean something like shouting at a skater "I hope you screw up!" and then applauding gleefully when she falls.

In particular, thinking that someone is a bad skater is not a reason for cheering when she skates badly, as far as I can see. (Of course hating Ohio State -- that makes perfect sense! )

haven't heard of that one before...heh, who came up with that one?

And if you are a fan of both Miki and Mao...

 

[R.D.]

It's not necessarily "rooting against". It's just simply hoping for "anyone but".

 

[miki88]

And if you are a fan of both Miki and Mao...

Mikey Maose

 

[R.D.]

Mikey Maose

haha now that's a good one.

 

[janetfan]

I think "rooting against" is unfortunate language. As Seniorita remarked when she tired to translate it into Greek, the concept of "cheering against" almost seems a contradiction in terms. It seems like it could only mean something like shouting at a skater "I hope you screw up!" and then applauding gleefully when she falls.

...

A contradiction in terms :think: ....... maybe if you are Greek.

Serioulsy, what you are saying sounds nice but like a little child's fairytale.

Come to Philly some time for an Eagles game and you will see fans rooting for and AGAINST and we could care less how they do it in Greece or anywhere else.

Don't forget - we are the fans who famously booed Santa Claus off the field at halftime

What blades wrote seems truthful and honest. This other stuff, as he wrote is a bunch of posing.

Please don't tell me that you rooted for Michelle and also rooted for Irina and expect me to believe it.

Impossible for a kwaniac, no?

 

[dorispulaski]

Someone gets it!

But it's not just Flatt; you can put any other skater's name and the statement would still be valid. I'd even argue that it works in reverse, too: those who continually wax poetic about a particular skater. People who are annoyed are going to begin to find faults in said skater and point them out...and then for some, it can get extreme.

One thing though: I do have to disagree with the "uberfan" part- for example, I don't know of anyone who became a staunch Cohenhead or Slutskaya fanatic due to the actions of Kwaniacs. However, I do think that it enables those who are ALREADY uberfans of the rival skater to take their uberfandom to a whole new level.

Speak for yourself. I became very close to an uberfan of Inoue and Baldwin just that way.

 

[R.D.]

Speak for yourself. I became very close to an uberfan of Inoue and Baldwin just that way.

alrighty.

 

[R.D.]

Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with...gasp...Janetfan (!) on this one. I honestly don't get the big deal over all this "rooting against is bad" stuff. People can have their own personal reasons for disliking someone and I won't hold it against them. It's all part of sports, no? Or is skating not a real "sporty sport" and this is all bad? So what if I choose to back only skaters from the US. Why is that so bad in some people's minds? From a "sport" point of view, that's perfectly fine, right? That's what OLYs and the World cup are all about- cheering on your home country, right?

Oh well.

 

[janetfan]

Actually, I'm gonna have to agree with...gasp...Janetfan (!) on this one. I honestly don't get the big deal over all this "rooting against is bad" stuff. People can have their own personal reasons for disliking someone and I won't hold it against them. It's all part of sports, no? Or is skating not a real "sporty sport" and this is all bad? So what if I choose to back only skaters from the US. Why is that so bad in some people's minds? From a "sport" point of view, that's perfectly fine, right? That's what OLYs and the World cup are all about- cheering on your home country, right?

Oh well.

We agree now and then RD

mathman has written more than once how he has rooted against Kwan's rivals - or did I just imagine that.

FTR, I do not dislike skaters because I don't know them.
Johnny has irritated me and Button told us he was a real flake during the Torino Olympics.

Plushy's poor sportsmanship disappointed me but I understand that he is a real fighter and hates losing. I am a bad loser myself when it comes to things I care about.

Some keep telling me that the CoP is great and it has made skating a "real sport."

Real sports have real fans. Real fans love their favorites and do not want their opponents to win.

I will consider changing my mind when seniorita tells us that she was not against Evan.
But even then I will believe that as much as her crazy English lessons.

 

[Mathman]

By a strange coincidence this exact topic -- why do we get so much pleasure from the misfortunes of others? -- is a featured topic in this month's special issue of Scientific American devoted to studies of the brain.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=their-pain-our-gain

Researchers have traced the exact cluster of brain cells that gets tickled when the rival of our favorite skater gets hit by a bus and ends up in the hospital, and discusses the evolutionary pressures that might account for such a response.

By the way, this phenomenon (schadenfreude) is much stronger in groups than in individuals.

 

[R.D.]

MM- at least for most regular sports fans, it's not about wishing the opponent or rival dies or gets injured (although if the latter does happen, sympathy may not exactly be pouring out)- it's about rooting FOR YOUR team to win. Everyone wants a victory, or even the chance to laugh at the rival's fans and say "Told ya!"- but no one wants to see blood.

 

[dorispulaski]

wanting to see blood is what I mean when I say rooting against.

So to some extent, I expect everyone is really agreeing, just not agreeing about the meaning of words.

For example, I think anyone who was happy when Marinin dropped Totmianina on her head is a sicko. I expect you would agree, R.D.

 

[janetfan]

MM- at least for most regular sports fans, it's not about wishing the opponent or rival dies or gets injured (although if the latter does happen, sympathy may not exactly be pouring out)- it's about rooting FOR YOUR team to win. Everyone wants a victory, or even the chance to laugh at the rival's fans and say "Told ya!"- but no one wants to see blood.

USA vs Mexico in soccer/footbal has become an intense rivalry. Very few of the games end without some brutal elbows or knees causing some damage. Dirty tackles are the norm and blood flows atleast once during the matches.

My feeling is that I would rather see Mexican blood than American blood flowing. I am sure Mexican fans would rather see our blood flowing.

Landon Donovan had the best idea as he urinated on the grass at the legendary Azteca stadium after a game infuriating the Mexicans worse than any dirty tackle or elbow to face could have done.

Naturally USA made Landon the team captain after that.


ETA: Estadio Azteca has hosted a variety of international sporting competitions, including:

1968 Summer Olympics
1970 FIFA World Cup
1975 Pan American Games
1983 FIFA World Youth Championship
1986 FIFA World Cup
1999 FIFA Confederations Cup

It is the only stadium in the World to have hosted two World Cup final matches.

 

[R.D.]

For example, I think anyone who was happy when Marinin dropped Totmianina on her head is a sicko. I expect you would agree, R.D.

Well yes, I think there is a line to be drawn between cheering for/against someone and wishing for someone to get hurt or die. It's not the same thing- or at least I don't look at it that way.

 

[oleada]

By the way, this phenomenon (schadenfreude) is much stronger in groups than in individuals.

Schadenfreude! Making me feel glad that I'm not you!
I didn't say it was nice! But everybody does it!
D'ja ever clap when a waitress falls and drops a tray of glasses?
Yeah...And ain't it fun to watch figure skaters falling on their asses?
And don't ya feel all warm and cozy watching people out in the rain? (you bet!)
It's Schadenfreude...people taking pleasure in your pain!