Laura Barquero tests positive for banned substance

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well the cream story has happened before, whereas drank after grandpa (during a pandemic) and ingested enough of his meds to flag a drug test comes off as much more of stretch, but its negligence on both athlete's part

Right, certain substances in creams, lotions, makeup products, etc., can and have led to a metabolizing process taking place n in the body in a way that produces a banned substance. In the majority of such cases, athletes in question were not intentionally ingesting banned substances. When they used the products in question, there was no clear evidence available to the affected athletes that a substance in the products might metabolize into a banned drug.

Meanwhile, the grandfather heart medicine contamination story is more than just a bit of a stretch!

 

[volk]

Right, certain substances in creams, lotions, makeup products, etc., can and have led to a metabolizing process taking place n in the body in a way that produces a banned substance. In the majority of such cases, athletes in question were not intentionally ingesting banned substances. When they used the products in question, there was no clear evidence available to the affected athletes that a substance in the products might metabolize into a banned drug.

Meanwhile, the grandfather heart medicine contamination story is more than just a bit of a stretch!

I get it. Doping is okay. All you need is just good excuse.

 

[Draculus]

Well maybe if the story was that Grandpa dissolved his tablets in water and Kamila accidentally drank from the glass it would be... slightly more believable?

Is grandpa story kind of an 'official' (if yes can somebody provide a link to something official)? As far as I know the story is just a guess by lawyer during RUSADA hearing after he mentioned that Kamilla's grandfather uses this medicine. It was like 'we do not what happened may be she drunk from his glass after him'. So it was a pure speculation and he specifically marked it. So the story is 'it was a contamination from Kamilla's grandfather, but we do not know how exactly this happened'.
For me this is perfectly believable. Actually more than accidentally use of a cream that is painted and marked that it is not WADA-compatible (though it can also happened, sometimes really weird random things happened)

But then she wouldn't have drunk the whole thing, it would have tasted terrible!

How do you know? If it is contamination from a crushed pill f.e., did you test TMZ on your own? Or had anyone here tested it? Or you just assume that it should test terrible just because it's medicine and everybody knows that medicine tests terrible?

Also the timeline doesn't seem to work either, apparently the TMZ would have needed to be ingested the day before the positive result

Why one day and not 3-4? I was unable to find numbers from the test and any good model that can show how much time vs. concentration had to be passed.

but Kamila and her Grandpa were in completely different cities at that time?

Again, as far as I know they said that Kamilla's grandfather regularly gives her a ride to the training in Moscow.
And how do you obtain information about Kamilla's grandfather whereabouts during this time? It's plausible that Kamilla's relative even went with her to RusNats (but it is not required if it still can be tested in 3-4 days). Basically there a lot of explanations and all of them a kind of 'just a normal thing that happened'. On the same level as 'or I have a cut, let me use this nice looking cream' or 'oh my lips burn so much let me use this nice looking healing lipstick'.

Then there's the whole delay with the sample too, who knows maybe there is something nefarious going on there. Has RUSADA made any statements about investigating that? Worlds is coming up so I would have thought that's top priority?

Well, following the current events I'm not sure that Worlds is a top priority from anyone in Russia (I will be actually surprised if it happens with Russian skaters at all), but still even before that, as far as I know RUSADA claimed that samples were given to WADA representatives (to be moved to Sweden) on 26th of December. Then there were delays and delays, and in the mid of January lab said that 'results will be ready at the and of January'. And finally they come on 8th of February.
How all this narrative about 'something nefarious' (I'm assuming from Eteri side) fit into this?

Plus there's the dodgy as Heck Team Doctor with the two previous doping offences?

Sorry, I did not searched for him and cannot comment right now. I spent too much time already on the googling.

This is probably off-topic on this thread, but it has to be said it's quite an odd case.

Well, I do agree that it is odd. Plus there are a lot of contras why using TMZ on Kamilla's makes no sense.

But I honestly do not see difference in plausibility between 'I accidentally used wrong cream (that has a warning sign on it)" and "Somehow I got contaminated from my grandfather's medicine".

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I get it. Doping is okay. All you need is just good excuse.

Huh? There was no intention to dope in the other cases. Plus, those athletes paid the price swiftly and immediately, which impacted their careers, despite later being exonerated when the metabolizing process was discovered, and the actual product that caused the chemical reaction in their bodies was also discovered. Who says that was okay? It happened and there was no way for those athletes to know before purchasing and using those products. Except that now everyone has to be even more on guard about things like eye makeup, creams and lotions, etc.

In the case of Valieva, the jury is still out, not only because she was treated as a 'protected' individual by the IOC [correction: by CAS, in connection with lifting of ban by RUSADA], instead of being suspended immediately, but also because of the situation occurring on the sport's biggest stage, which has led to all kinds of questions and implications for the sport that have yet to be sorted out in terms of lasting impact. The 'grandfather medication' excuse strains credulity. And why wasn't Valieva being protected all along under those training camp conditions, and under that entire baby ballerina 'assembly-line' approach, which has been fully accepted and excused by the powers-that-be, as well as by fans?

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

So the story is 'it was a contamination from Kamilla's grandfather, but we do not know how exactly this happened'.
For me this is perfectly believable. Actually more than accidentally use of a cream that is painted and marked that it is not WADA-compatible

But as you stated, this is pure speculation which apparently was offered by a lawyer during RUSADA hearing, because he mentioned the grandfather's heart medication. Yet, no proof or evidence has been provided to support this claim of possible contamination from a relative's prescribed medication. As I said, this excuse strains credulity for me, and I'm sure for many people. Meanwhile, there's the shady Russian anesthesiologist hanging around in the stands and at rink side with the Russian contingent at competitions. Also, there's the known documentary evidence of Russian government involvement in condoning and participating in the system of doping Russian athletes, while actively attempting to cover-up the doping and denying their involvement.

Thus to me, it is way more believable that in Russia, taking banned drugs (or rather administering to athletes banned drugs) for some kind of training advantage, is sadly part of what has been occurring. This, as opposed to placing the blame on poor grandpapa's heart medicine and on Valieva supposedly mistakenly drinking out of his unwashed glass.

 

[4everchan]

In the case of Valieva, the jury is still out, not only because she was treated as a 'protected' individual by the IOC and by other governing authorities instead of being suspended immediately, but also because of the situation occurring on the sport's biggest stage, which has led to all kinds of questions and implications for the sport that have yet to be sorted out in terms of lasting impact. The 'grandfather medication' excuse strains credulity. And why wasn't Valieva being protected all along under those training camp conditions, and under that entire baby ballerina 'assembly-line' approach, which has been fully accepted and excused by the powers-that-be, as well as by fans?

The IOC appealed the RUSADA's decision to lift the provisional ban. So did the ISU. It is the CAS that decided to use the "protected persons" clause in the Valieva case.

 

[[email protected]]

Why one day and not 3-4? I was unable to find numbers from the test and any good model that can show how much time vs. concentration had to be passed.

The CAS report says that the found concentration corresponds to one 35 mg pill taken 5-7 days before the test. The highest concentration in urine is during the first day because more than 50% of TMZ is not absorbed and is taken out with urine within 24 hours. So, if the contamination took place within 1 day of the test it could be just a minuscule amout, may be just a tiny crumb. But for the absorbed amount one could apply a simple linear model, I guess. 3-4 days, hence, means a half of a pill. And this looks unreal that she took half of the pill and did not notice it. So, I guess, if it was contamination it should have happenned just before the test. Where was the grandpa?

 

[Draculus]

But as you stated, this is pure speculation which apparently was offered by a lawyer during RUSADA hearing, because he mentioned the grandfather's heart medication. Yet, no proof or evidence has been provided to support this claim of possible contamination from a relative's prescribed medication.

Well, what kind of proof/evidence for this explanation can you have for real within a day after information became available?
Imagine that this is exactly what happened - Kamilla's grandfather took a pill, cut it in 2, swallow 1 half, 2nd left in the glass and Kamilla drunk it later. How can you prove this, what would be enough to convince you?

For me such proof would be a model where you take typical TMZ intake from grandfather, way to contaminate (saliva in the glass/dust of the grinded pill/whatever), how many days passed and proper calculation that can show this way it is indeed possible to get to TMZ concentration values from lab's test in this way. I'm not sure how hard it is, but I would expect pretty much.
This knowledge/skills you can expect from the 'shady anesthesiologist' of a Snape/dr.House level, but I really doubt that dr. Shvetsky is that good.

Thus to me, it is way more believable that in Russia, taking banned drugs (or rather administering to athletes banned drugs) for some kind of training advantage, is sadly part of what has been occurring. This, as opposed to placing the blame on poor grandpapa's heart medicine and on Valieva supposedly mistakenly drinking out of his unwashed glass.

For me it is 50/50.

 

[Draculus]

3-4 days, hence, means a half of a pill. And this looks unreal that she took half of the pill and did not notice it. So, I guess, if it was contamination it should have happened just before the test. Where was the grandpa?

It is a huge range here, from some part of 80mg pill a day before to a whole 35mg pill 5-7 days before.
So, yes, grandpa location and format of TMZ he takes (it exists even in a spray form, so you just need be nearby) definitely an important fact here.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Kamilla's grandfather took a pill, cut it in 2, swallow 1 half, 2nd left in the glass and Kamilla drunk it later. How can you prove this, what would be enough to convince you?

You've got to be kidding! In any case, it's NOT up to me to prove anything. I am also not in any position of authority to need to be convinced. LOL!

But yeah, it definitely strains credulity. You're saying that V's grandpa didn't drink his entire glass of medication and she later finished it off without knowing what she was drinking!? At the very least, she would have tasted something and known at the time she wasn't simply drinking water, and that it was not her glass. Why would he have left the glass of incompletely swallowed medicine in harm's way for the rest of the family, eh? This is all purely speculative and hearsay. In a court of law, they would actually have to provide proof, not 'Oh, this might have been what happened, possibly.'

It makes better sense to not go down this distracting 'excuse' rabbit hole in the first place. Clearly, the adults in the training camp and the training practices in that camp are what need to be under investigation. But if they wish to subject poor grandpapa to questioning, so be it. I hope his heart is currently fit and he's got his wits about him to withstand such rabbit hole probing.

 

[Weathergal]

Let's please keep this thread about Laura Barquero. There is now a Doping thread in the Speaking easy if you wish to discuss the Kamila Valieva situation or other doping issues.