male flutzers/lippers?

[bubbleyum]

so... do men not have edge problems? seems like all the discussion around flutzing etc centers around the women, like mao, ashley wagner, caroline zhang. but no men mentioned. just wondering. if it's not a problem for men, then why? do they have more strength in their ankles to hold an outside edge right up until the end or something. i always thought edge problems came from not being taught it right in the first place...

(sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere else before.)

 

[childfreegirl]

I think it has been discussed before but it's been a while. To answer your question, I don't know if it's a matter of strength or what. I know a male skater at the juvenile level who is having to relearn the lutz, so it's definately not just a female issue. I think it can be strength for some and technique for others. Or maybe a combination.

 

[Mathman]

I always guessed that the key is upper body strength. What makes a Lutz harder than other jumps is the counterrotation at take-off.

As I understand the mechanics of the jump, you basically have to use your upper body to wrench yourself around to spin in the opposite direction from what your blade is telling you to do.

 

[decker]

I can't think of any male flutzers off the top of my head. But I think Johnny Weir is sometimes guilty of lipping.

Susan

 

[chuckm]

Kevin Reynolds was gigged for flutzing in his GP events.

 

[C_T_T_]

I can't think of any male flutzers off the top of my head. But I think Johnny Weir is sometimes guilty of lipping.

Susan

Yeah, and Brian Joubert too. Alban Preaubert is the only flutzer I can think of at the moment but I'm sure there are more.

 

[Tinymavy15]

as a whole the men are much better than the ladies concerning correct edge takoffs. I think Plushenko used to flutz, but i will have to re-wach some of his programs to be sure.

I remeber seeing one guy take off for his salchows on two feet... it looked really wierd... ithink he was russian, but i can't be sure. That can't be correct under CoP.

 

[dorispulaski]

AFAIR, Tim Goebel & Takashi Honda both flutzed.

I thought I'd check recent competitions to see how common edge calls are on the guys:

Shaun Rogers was called for a lip at this years US Nationals in both the LP & the SP. Michael Villareal was called for a flutz in both the LP & the SP.

At Europeans ;this year, Manuel Koll of Austria was called for a lip. Morris Pfeifhoffer of Switzerland was called for a flutz. Alexandr Kazakov was called for a lip. Javier Fernandez of Spain was called for a flutz. Pieter Liebers of Germany was called for a lip. Alban Preaubert was called for a flutz, Sergei Davydov was called for a lip.

So there's more men with edge problems than we tend to think.

 

[C_T_T_]

I remeber seeing one guy take off for his salchows on two feet... it looked really wierd... ithink he was russian, but i can't be sure. That can't be correct under CoP.

I think your thinking of Sergei Dobrin, he has/had a strange Salchow entrance but still managed to do the quad from it! He's doing 4T this season instead.

 

[Marine63]

Tim Goebel used to be accused of using his free foot to assist on the takeoff of his 4 Sal.

 

[Mafke]

Tim Goebel used to be accused of using his free foot to assist on the takeoff of his 4 Sal.

That's like saying he was accused of breating oxygen.
He clearly and obviously used his free foot to assist the takeoff.
The controversy was whether or not this was acceptable technique. The consensus from judges seemed to be that it was.
He wasn't the only one to use the free leg that way.If you find a good quality video of Tonya Hardings 91 nats lp you can see a big spray of ice from her 'free' leg as she goes into the salchow.
Goebel seemed to use it even more though making his salchow look distractingly like a toe loop. And I definitely remember him flutzing too.

 

[Kasey]

I think your thinking of Sergei Dobrin, he has/had a strange Salchow entrance but still managed to do the quad from it! He's doing 4T this season instead.

Dobrin also got dinged this year for edge, I think he lips.