Male spiral

[Engwaciriel]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I maintain that MENS skating is MENS skating and not woMENS skating. The whole "narrow mindeded and offensive" thing is sooo old. Better yet, lets go back to all the guys wearing skin tight spandex blue bodysuits and Cranston spins.

well, when u think about it thats pretty much what the guys where in all other sports so why not? :thumbsup: Just look at the athletics, its not like the mens clothes leave much for the imagination there...

 

[La Rhumba]

Message to the so called "skate expert":

Get a tape, and watch John Curry's Ina Bauer [on your list of moves men shouldn't do] - it's a thing of beauty and class.

All forms of Movement - be it Skating, Ballet or Modern Dance can be powerful aswell as beautiful, when performed well. If you interpret that as *effeminate* that's your choice, but you're missing out on a whole swathe of amazing *artists* of which I still consider Curry to be the greatest.

Thank Heavens for Skaters like Buttle and Savoie today. :agree:

 

[76olympics]

OK, you've done it now. Insulting Toller's spins- them is fighting words! Can't I like Donald Jackson's jumps, Cranston's artistry and modern guys as well? Why do we ( or the skaters) have to be bound by rules that aren't in the guidebooks! Frankly, I don't think moves have gender restrictions if they are done well. There are many folks that can't really do Beillmans- but many of them are female. I really only like it when Denise does it, but others feel differently.

( I go away to watch a Toller vid to calm me down!)

 

[Ladskater]

The key to a good spiral for a male or female skater is flexibility. Shawn Sawyer and Toller Cranston are the best male examples of text book spirals I have ever seen. Jeff Buttle's spiral is gorgeous as well.

 

[Linny]

Stakes

If men actually looked and acted like men when they stake

For some reason, instead of being offended, this one really tickles my funny bone. Exactly what does a man look and act like when they stake?

In the Wikipedia definition for stake, the following appears:

"A stake is a long, pointed object thrust into the ground. Stakes have many applications, such as demarcating a small plot of land, anchoring guy ropes for a tent"

So, the guy ropes involved - those guys are heavy cords of the male gender looking and acting like stakes?



Linny

 

[STL_Blues_fan]

I will obstain from commenting on "what is male or female skating", but I have to throuw in late, great Ondrej Nepela. The guy was incredibely flexible. Can't find any spirals, but look at this:
http://www.starepohladnice.host.sk/velke/vsapporo04.jpg

http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bion1/nepe1.jpg


BTW, Rohene rocks (and I got a photo with him)!!!! So does Shawn!

 

[Alsace]

I'm having problems with the links, STLB. The first says "you don't have permission" and the second just gave me an ordinary error message.

 

[STL_Blues_fan]

Sorry about that. I tested the links and got an error message for the first link, but the second one did work.

let's try again:

2nd link (a pink stamp with Ondrej's image):

http://andrejkoymasky.com/liv/fam/bion1/nepe1.html

1st link, 2nd image on the left:

http://www.starepohladnice.host.sk/sapporo.htm

i hope it works this time.

 

[Alsace]

Thanks! You're right; that's a great extension.

 

[Jasper]

I love Shawn Sawyer's! Wylie and Ward are also incredible.

 

[elinmand]

Rohene, Rohene, Rohene. I hope he makes it to the Nats and skates his best. He will win if he does.

Joe

Rohene! He was a guest skater at the MInneapolis performance of champions on Ice this year. He's amazing to watch. He does things that are associated with female skaters, like laybacks, spirals, and Charlottes, but manages to look completely masculine doing them. I really hope he makes it to Nationals again next season and makes America forget all about last year's meltdown. He has the moves, as the commentators pointed out. If he can get his nerves under control, he could beat just about anyone.

 

[julietvalcouer]

Personally? I don't like seeing men do Bielmanns. I don't think it's flattering except on the most gracile male physiques, which are generally a body type I don't particularly like watching anyway.

Ina Bauers--male or female, don't do them if you can't get good flexibility and hold them longer than a few seconds! Paul Wylie had a good Ina Bauer. Shizuka's is SCARY flexible.

On the subject of men with spirals: can anyone FIND a picture of Mark Mitchell doing his? Even Google Images is not helping.

 

[Spun Silver]

grac·ile ( P ) Pronunciation Key (grasl, -l)
adj.
Gracefully slender.
Graceful.

Nice word, new to me. Thanks!

 

[CDMM1991]

I also don't agree with any of the current men doing Beilmann spins, simply because I have yet to see a man who can achieve the flexibility that it requires to make a bielmann attractive, but I don't have a philosophical objection to men doing them, as long as they acn do them properly.

 

[Antilles]

Jeff Buttle does a gorgeous Ina Bauer. The one is his Gould program this year was wonderful.

In terms of flexibilty, I'd say Sawyer wins. Although I'd never seen Rohene Ward before the pictures posted on thsi thread. He looks just as flexible.

I can understand why some of the stretchier leg moves might be difficult for men, but why can't they do nice laybacks? (Nice meaning lots of flexibility in the back.) Is there a physiological reason for this, or is it simply because they don't practice laybacks?

 

[Mafke]

I can understand why some of the stretchier leg moves might be difficult for men, but why can't they do nice laybacks? (Nice meaning lots of flexibility in the back.) Is there a physiological reason for this, or is it simply because they don't practice laybacks?

IIRC (and if I'm not, I trust there will be no shortage of corrections) there are some physiological reasons that mean that most men, even if they practiced, would not have great laybacks. These are related to differences in hip structure (that make it hard/impossible for a man to get the right kind turn out in the free leg*) and the center of gravity is usually higher in men, which has to do with shoulder/hip proportions and more muscular upper bodies (muscle weighs more than fat).

*though international, especially european, especially east european, judges don't seem to care much about turn out in the free leg

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I also don't agree with any of the current men doing Beilmann spins, simply because I have yet to see a man who can achieve the flexibility that it requires to make a bielmann attractive, but I don't have a philosophical objection to men doing them, as long as they acn do them properly.

I think the men have better things to do than worry about a Bielman spin. Men's torsos are longer than woman's. Check out Cirque du Soleil and see if you still think men are not flexible.

Joe

 

[Ladskater]

I think of the men today, Shawn Sawyer is at the top of the list - pure text book.

 

[Ladskater]

Of course, I must mention Toller in this context! :


http://www.frogsonice.com/skateweb/articles/toller.shtml

Thanks for mentioning Toller. He raised the bar in men's skating when it came to details like spirals and spins and of course his classic Russian Split jump. Toller was and is still an inspiration to male skaters - especially here in Canada.

 

[Lilbit]

Disagree with the "girl moves" vs. "boy moves" in figure skating. But will say this. The problem with Plushenko's Biellman is that he doesn't bend his head back. He keeps his head straight up and kind of juts out his chin. It breaks the curve of the line of his back and makes the whole position look strained.

If Plush did his Biellman with his his neck arched in keeping with his back, I think it would look 100% better.

BTW, Viktor Petrenko did a beautiful crossed back foot spin with his body in a layback position. It wasn't an Arakawa dropped head kind, but his back was definitely arched. I loved it.

As for spirals, I disagree that flexibility is the key. Paul Wylie's spiral is the best male spiral I've seen so far and his free leg only goes to about 10 or 15 degrees above 90 at the hip. But his leg and whole body have so much S-T-R-E-T-C-H and beautiful line, it gets my vote.

Rohene and the other guys with higher free legs look great, don't get me wrong, but Wylie had the whole package for me, including speed and edge.