"Mao Hype" Begins in Earnest - new AP story (Dec. 28)

[Frau Muller]

I take it u think that Lambiel's win in the worlds wasn't really a victory since Plushenko wasn't there..

It was Lambiel's lucky consolation win, because Plush was out. Just as Tai/Randy's win in 1979 happened only because Irina Rodnina was out on maternity leave. Let's face it.

 

[Mathman]

Evan told me that he wanted to return his undeserved, tarnished World bronze medal.

Irina told me she will refuse to accept the gold in Turino -- it won't mean a thing to her if Mao isn't there.

 

[orchid]

Evan told me that he wanted to return his undeserved, tarnished World bronze medal.

Irina told me she will refuse to accept the gold in Turino -- it won't mean a thing to her if Mao isn't there.

 

[SkateFan4Life]

I don't think it is hype. It is a straightforward story that the triple axle gal is not permitted to go to the Olys However, as I have said before, the story will get full play before, during and for many years afterwards. Too bad for Mao and too bad for the Oly gold medalist who will always be known as the winner because Mao was not permitted to go to the Olys. That's the way it is in skateland.
Joe

I agree with you, Joe. As far as I'm concerned, let Mao compete in the Olympics. She is 15 years old, not 12 years old.

 

[Mathman]

I agree with you, Joe. As far as I'm concerned, let Mao compete in the Olympics. She is 15 years old, not 12 years old.

She is 15 years 3 months old, not 15 years 6 months old.

She is not eligible to compete in the Olympics.

What part of "15 by July first" are we not understanding here?

MM

 

[bethissoawesome]

I don't think it is hype. It is a straightforward story that the triple axle gal is not permitted to go to the Olys However, as I have said before, the story will get full play before, during and for many years afterwards. Too bad for Mao and too bad for the Oly gold medalist who will always be known as the winner because Mao was not permitted to go to the Olys. That's the way it is in skateland.

Joe

i have to go with joe on this one. you can't just simply state that a rule is a rule. if the purpose of the rule is to keep young skaters from hurting themselves and it is achieving that purpose, fine. but to keep mao performing and practicing hundreds of 3a's for 4 more years undermines the rule. the rule is hurting her (physically, forget about the skating part), not helping her. it's not going to keep her or her coaches from having her practice outrageous routines, especially with the new scoring system where technical elements are more important. they aren't just going to cut the difficulty of her performances or practices for 3 seasons to keep her from injury when every 3a she completes gives her more points. i say countries/skaters should have a right to petition the rule when the rule isn't achieving it's purpose. it's a difference of 3 months, not 3 years.

personally, i want to see mao compete. i want to see her at the top of her game. i also want to see her develop as a skater.... and i doubt that given the opportunity to compete and win the oly gold, she would quit skating (although something like that shouldn't be taken into consideration for "bending the rule"). i think the process of maturity should be seen through worlds, with a 1 year gap between the competitons. but as far as the olympics go, i would rather see a slightly immature, but extremely talented mao skate against the best in the world this olympics rather than watch a worn out, who knows, maybe even injured, mao struggle at the next olympics.

the olympics should be a competition among the best in the world, so let the best in the world compete.

 

[Jaana]

Evan told me that he wanted to return his undeserved, tarnished World bronze medal.

Irina told me she will refuse to accept the gold in Turino -- it won't mean a thing to her if Mao isn't there.

LOL, that is very funny!!!

The reality though is that Lambiel won because of Plushenko´s absence and the same applies to other medalists, too. Lysacek definetely would not have gotten a bronze medal, if Plushenko had been able to skate the freeskate.

About Mao/Slutskaya I would say that the impression will kind of stay in many people´s minds, that a very talented skater was not able to compete at the 2006 Olympics because she was born a couple months too late.

I definetely adored Babilonia/Gardner (as well as Rodnina/Zaitshev), but the reality has always stayed in my mind, that without the absence of R/Z, they would not have won the 1979 Worlds.

 

[Mathman]

Jaana, to me, things like that (injuries to other skaters, etc.) are not under a competitor's control. You show up, you skate, whoever skates the best in that competition wins that title. Everything else is just woulda coulda shoulda.

I think where the fallacious reasoning comes in is when people try to elevate an Olympic title or World championship to mean something more than what is it: "I was the best in THIS COMPETITION."

No one is claiming that Lysacek is the third best skater in the world. What we can say is that he was the third best in that competition.

MM

 

[Mathman]

Bethissoawesome, I do not really understand this position on Mao's eligibility. Do you think that there should be one rule for everyone else and a separate rule for Mao based on the fact that, hey, she might injure herself practicing jumps anyway? Is there something special about the Japanese Skating Federation that says they don't have to follow the rules that apply to all other countries?

Now, if you think the the age rule is not serving its purpose and ought to be abandoned, that's another story. But then the new rule has to apply to everyone, too. I do not see how you can write into the Olympic rule book, "Rule #21564: Mao Asada can skate in the Olympics at age 15.25 but Yu Na Kim (born in the same month as Mao, and the best skater in her country) cannot."

MM

 

[millie]

Is there an age limit on any other sport in the Olympics other then figure skating in which an athelete cannot compete? If its the same rule for all other sports then the rule should stand.

 

[orchid]

Is there an age limit on any other sport in the Olympics other then figure skating in which an athelete cannot compete? If its the same rule for all other sports then the rule should stand.

I believe the sport of gymnastics, has also adopted an age rule which is based on similar health concerns as figure skating.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Bethissoawesome, I do not really understand this position on Mao's eligibility. Do you think that there should be one rule for everyone else and a separate rule for Mao based on the fact that, hey, she might injure herself practicing jumps anyway? Is there something special about the Japanese Skating Federation that says they don't have to follow the rules that apply to all other countries?

Now, if you think the the age rule is not serving it's purpose and ought to be abandoned, that's another story. But then the new rule has to apply to everyone, too. I do not see how you can write into the Olympic rule book, "Rule #21564: Mao Asada can skate in the Olympics at age 15.25 but Yu Na Kim (born in the same month as Mao, and the best skater in her country) cannot."

MM

I don't think Bethissoawesome said that the rule should not apply to only Mao. At this point in time quoting rules is superfluous. Everyone should know them by now. If not, they should not be in a fs forum. I also don't think the JF said anything about the rule except they would follow it. No implication of a conspiracy here. and I don't think bethissoawesome would want the rules to only apply to Mao. Yu Na Kim should definitely be included.

I believe the rule is to prevent accidents and using age as a preventive measure is ok with everyone. If it does prevent accidents, the rule should NEVER be rescinded. The question is does everyone believe this rule prevents accidents?

Joe

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Is there an age limit on any other sport in the Olympics other then figure skating in which an athelete cannot compete? If its the same rule for all other sports then the rule should stand.

Millie - I don't believe it is an Olympic Committee Rule. It is decidedly an ISU Rule.

Joe

 

[orchid]

Millie - I don't believe it is an Olympic Committee Rule. It is decidedly an ISU Rule.

Joe

True, the governing body of any respective sport applies the rules and regulations for that sport, not the Olympic committee.

As is with the age limits in gymnastics, the Federation of International Gymnastics applied a rule of16 years of age minimum within the year of an Olympic and or world event. For Tumbling and Trampoline, Jr. elite is12 years minimum, Sr. elite 17 minimum.

 

[millie]

Millie - I don't believe it is an Olympic Committee Rule. It is decidedly an ISU Rule.

Joe

If that's the case, there are other sports in the Olympics (example hockey for one) that an athelete can be injured or cause medical problems than figure skating. If figure skating is a sport then the rules should be the same as the other sports. Were there that many problems that the ISU had to put this age limit rule in place or that they didn't want the younger or agile skaters competing? If it's not an Olympic Committee rule, can that committee change the rule and let the younger skaters skate?

My opinion is that the best should go to the Olympics, no matter how old they are.

 

[orchid]

"...ISU officials skating on thin ice"

Here's a questions i have about all of this thing,

Why isn't Mao allowed to compete in the Olympics and Worlds when she won the gold medal at Junir Worlds last year??

I remember correctly, the rule that you had to be 15 to compete in those events by june was in placed in 1996. Yet both Tara Limpinski and Sarah Hughes competed at Worlds before the allowed age by winning a Junior World Medal, which is what kept Sasha Cohen from competiting in worlds in 2000 because she hadn't won a Junior World Medal. I just saw Mao's profile and it says she won Junior Worlds last year. So shouldn't she be allowed to compete since exceptions were made for previous underaged champions??

That exception was abolished in 2000.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?sp20051231jg.htm

 

[Piel]

IIRC the purpose of the rule is to prevent younger skaters from injury caused by practicing those difficult jumps. Obviously Mao has been practicing those jumps as was Kimmie. So not being able to go to Worlds or the Olympics has not stopped them. As long as they are allowed to compete at any competition where they can gain an advantage by doing the jumps I don't see any of them holding back. I want to see a ladies competiton not a baby ballerina revue and am surprised that posters who had previously voiced that same opinion are now in favor of Mao going to the Olympics. Does this mean BBs are OK IF they have a 3A or quad? I agree with the intent of the rule but the rule is not obtaining it's intended purpose. What is the ISU to do? I still think the only way to enforce it is to make the age limits the same for all national and international competitions. If not someday you are going to have national champs who can't represent their countries at Worlds/Olympics.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I've never cared how old a skater was in competition. I just didn't want baby ballerinas to win based on their cuteness. The gold medalist baby ballerinas, imo, have done nothing more than demonstrate that they can do a cutesy grown up Lady performance while giggling thoughout their routines in their simple one level presentation. Dorothy Parker's famous comment on an actress years ago would apply here. The baby balerinas "run the gammut of emotions from A to B"

Mao, imo, may have reached and overtook Irina's jumping ability but she is quite far from Michelle's musical interpretation with her incredible feelings.

Joe

 

[Mafke]

I don't think that anyone believes that an age rule will prevent young skaters from practicing dangerous tricks.

But, ISU clearly doesn't want another 16 year old olympic champion because while younger skaters can do big tricks and hold up well under pressure. They do very well in becoming olympic champions, but they do a very terrible job of _being_ olympic champions (especially the part about furthering public interest in the sport).

I don't know why people are afraid to say this or think that Asada would be immune to the career destroying effects of an olympic gold medal on a 16 year old skater.

 

[bethissoawesome]

Bethissoawesome, I do not really understand this position on Mao's eligibility. Do you think that there should be one rule for everyone else and a separate rule for Mao based on the fact that, hey, she might injure herself practicing jumps anyway? Is there something special about the Japanese Skating Federation that says they don't have to follow the rules that apply to all other countries?

Now, if you think the the age rule is not serving its purpose and ought to be abandoned, that's another story. But then the new rule has to apply to everyone, too. I do not see how you can write into the Olympic rule book, "Rule #21564: Mao Asada can skate in the Olympics at age 15.25 but Yu Na Kim (born in the same month as Mao, and the best skater in her country) cannot."

MM

of course i don't think it should only apply to mao. i think any skater who faces a situation in which the PURPOSE of the rule (being to keep young skaters from injuring themselves) is not being achieved, they should have the right to petition it. it's not a question of "is mao good enough" or "should there be an exception for mao" but a question of "is this rule achieving it's purpose."