- Joined
- Dec 15, 2007
This is the first time ive cn mao bashing ive never cn tat much bashing from them before.
Mao's Flip
- Thread starter Tinymavy15
- Start date
This is the first time ive cn mao bashing ive never cn tat much bashing from them before.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2007
I understand that it's not an easy thing to fix for Mao and hope that she makes an adjustment for next season.
What I do not understand, however, is why her coach Rafael Arutunian is saying that "the rule is unfair" as quoted in this ESPN video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3AMSDZ6Lg&feature=related
Is he insinuating that people shouldn't care what edge skaters take off on, for both lutz and flip?
What I do not understand, however, is why her coach Rafael Arutunian is saying that "the rule is unfair" as quoted in this ESPN video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3AMSDZ6Lg&feature=related
Is he insinuating that people shouldn't care what edge skaters take off on, for both lutz and flip?
Are you talking about flutz rather than floop? I do not know what Raphael was thinking.
But I personally felt it a bit of a surprise to see the minus GOEs all of the sudden after having seen plus GOEs and constant compliments by TV commentators on Mao's flutz up until last year. Now she is already 17 years old, it can be a bit too late to adjust. If it is so important, why didn't these judges and TV commentators care much about her flutz until this year? I do not think that flutz should be encouraged, either, but the way it was introduced could have been more gradual so that it could give skaters several years to adjust.
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2006
I think the rule to penalize wrong edges is in the rule book (haven't actually looked at it though), but some judges interpreted the rule differently, giving her +GOE if other aspectsof the flutz (air position, landing) were good, which counteracts the -GOE she gets for a wrong take off edge. Now, all judges are required to give -GOE to a lip or flutz regardless of how well done it is. I think its the ISU officials who are strict about wrong take-offs, not judges, since they chose to give postive GOE in the past for these jumps.
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It sounded as if he were objecting to the -3's. That does seem a pretty hefty penalty for just a wrong edge. Falls get -3's. Was there something else wrong with it?
I must say that I have no problem with skaters getting marked down for bad technique. It's about time. It was much more unfair when some skaters were getting credit for jumps they couldn't do correctly and other skaters were getting penalized. Plus, a true lutz was becoming a thing of the past.
I love your posts, Bennett; they are so humane.
I think what is happening is that the fine-tuning that was necessary for CoP, when it first arrived, has really been taking place, year after year. I'm afraid that it inevitably creates problems for some skaters, but I really do think that they are trying to make the rules more fair, and to uphold the purity of the elements for the future.
About what Raphael said, I think he probably meant that changing the way a jump is done, *mid-season*, is not a feasible idea. My guess is that next season, Mao will have made the necessary adjustments; I think she is still young enough to do that, and possesses great talent. The main thing is to have the adjustments made by 2010, and there is time for that. In a way, introducing the strict jump GOE rules this far in advance of the next Olympics, is a benefit for the skaters; the rules had to be introduced some time. I agree that earlier would have been better, but I am grateful that they finally have made the GOE standards more clear, and I really hope that Mao can make the necessary changes in time for the Olympics.
I think what is happening is that the fine-tuning that was necessary for CoP, when it first arrived, has really been taking place, year after year. I'm afraid that it inevitably creates problems for some skaters, but I really do think that they are trying to make the rules more fair, and to uphold the purity of the elements for the future.
About what Raphael said, I think he probably meant that changing the way a jump is done, *mid-season*, is not a feasible idea. My guess is that next season, Mao will have made the necessary adjustments; I think she is still young enough to do that, and possesses great talent. The main thing is to have the adjustments made by 2010, and there is time for that. In a way, introducing the strict jump GOE rules this far in advance of the next Olympics, is a benefit for the skaters; the rules had to be introduced some time. I agree that earlier would have been better, but I am grateful that they finally have made the GOE standards more clear, and I really hope that Mao can make the necessary changes in time for the Olympics.
Thank you for your kind words about my posts, Dodhiyel. I greatly appreciate it.
Yes, I agree that the ISU was considerate enough to modify the rules this season rather than the next season. Young skaters like Caroline, Wagner, and Mao, who can potentially aim for two Olympics, need to make the necessary adjustments at some point in their career anyway. I also agree that having clearer GOE standards is basically a good thing. It can be confusing when new systems are introduced; but I hope that both judges and skaters can eventually get used to it and survive it well:agree:
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I was watching the ESPN broadcast of the GPF, and noticed in the slow-mo replay of Yu-na 3R (which she fell on), that her 3R looks a lot like Mao's 3F (once the toe-pick went in). 
That is, Yu-na had her weight on the front foot until the last moment, when she transferred weight back to the RBO, and then she jumped. Traditionally, loop jumps were supposed to be taken off entirely from the RBO (or LBO if you're a clockwise skater) without any weight on the front foot. I remember at a testing session recently, coaches/skaters were noting that one of the judges would only give credit to a loop jump if all the weight was on the back foot, and preferred the front foot to be visibly lifted off the ground first. I don't think Yu-na's loop would've passed according to him.
Of course, this was an especially strict judge. But I wonder if Mao's weird technique on the 3F and Yu-na's on the 3R are what's causing them problems (Mao's 3F leans forward in the air and also doesn't get her usual height, and as the first jump of her combos, a shaky 3F often means a popped second jump; Yu-na tends to under-rotate or fall on the 3R).
I find it interesting that Mao and Yu-na in so many ways are complementary to each other. Mao specializes in edge jumps and Yu-na in toe-jumps.
That is, Yu-na had her weight on the front foot until the last moment, when she transferred weight back to the RBO, and then she jumped. Traditionally, loop jumps were supposed to be taken off entirely from the RBO (or LBO if you're a clockwise skater) without any weight on the front foot. I remember at a testing session recently, coaches/skaters were noting that one of the judges would only give credit to a loop jump if all the weight was on the back foot, and preferred the front foot to be visibly lifted off the ground first. I don't think Yu-na's loop would've passed according to him.
Of course, this was an especially strict judge. But I wonder if Mao's weird technique on the 3F and Yu-na's on the 3R are what's causing them problems (Mao's 3F leans forward in the air and also doesn't get her usual height, and as the first jump of her combos, a shaky 3F often means a popped second jump; Yu-na tends to under-rotate or fall on the 3R).I find it interesting that Mao and Yu-na in so many ways are complementary to each other. Mao specializes in edge jumps and Yu-na in toe-jumps.
